By Larry Johnson
closeAuthor: Larry Johnson
Name: Larry Johnson
Email: larry_johnson@earthlink.net
Site: http://NoQuarterUSA.net
About: Larry C. Johnson is CEO and co-founder of BERG Associates, LLC, an international business-consulting firm with expertise combating terrorism and investigating money laundering. Mr. Johnson works with US military commands in scripting terrorism exercises, briefs on terrorist trends, and conducts undercover investigations on counterfeiting, smuggling and money laundering.
Mr. Johnson, who worked previously with the Central Intelligence Agency and U.S. State Department’s Office of Counter Terrorism, is a recognized expert in the fields of terrorism, aviation security, crisis and risk management.
Mr. Johnson has analyzed terrorist incidents for a variety of media including the Jim Lehrer News Hour, National Public Radio, ABC's Nightline, NBC's Today Show, the New York Times, CNN, Fox News, and the BBC. Mr. Johnson has authored several articles for publications, including Security Management Magazine, the New York Times, and The Los Angeles Times. He has lectured on terrorism and aviation security around the world, including the Center for Research and Strategic Studies at the Ecole Polytechnique in Paris, France. He represented the U.S. Government at the July 1996 OSCE Terrorism Conference in Vienna, Austria.
From 1989 until October 1993, Larry Johnson served as a Deputy Director in the U.S. State Department’s Office of Counter Terrorism. He managed crisis response operations for terrorist incidents throughout the world and he helped organize and direct the US Government’s debriefing of US citizens held in Kuwait and Iraq, which provided vital intelligence on Iraqi operations following the 1990 invasion of Kuwait. Mr. Johnson also participated in the investigation of the terrorist bombing of Pan Am 103. Under Mr. Johnson’s leadership the U.S. airlines and pilots agreed to match the US Government’s two million-dollar reward.
From 1985 through September 1989 Mr. Johnson worked for the Central Intelligence Agency. During his distinguished career, he received training in paramilitary operations, worked in the Directorate of Operations, served in the CIA’s Operation’s Center, and established himself as a prolific analyst in the Directorate of Intelligence. In his final year with the CIA he received two Exceptional Performance Awards.
Mr. Johnson is a member of the American Society for Industrial Security. He taught at The American University’s School of International Service (1979-1983) while working on a Ph.D. in political science. He has a M.S. degree in Community Development from the University of Missouri (1978), where he also received his B.S. degree in Sociology, graduating Cum Laude and Phi Beta Kappa in 1976.See Authors Posts (689) on September 5, 2007 at 8:23 PM in Current Affairs
Why the hubbub over a B-52 taking off from a B-52 base in Minot, North Dakota and subsequently landing at a B-52 base in Barksdale, Louisiana? That’s like getting excited if you see a postal worker in uniform walking out of a post office. And how does someone watching a B-52 land identify the cruise missiles as nukes? It just does not make sense.
So I called a old friend and retired B-52 pilot and asked him. What he told me offers one compelling case of circumstantial evidence. My buddy, let’s call him Jack D. Ripper, reminded me that the only times you put weapons on a plane is when they are on alert or if you are tasked to move the weapons to a specific site.
Then he told me something I had not heard before.
Barksdale Air Force Base is being used as a jumping off point for Middle East operations. Gee, why would we want cruise missile nukes at Barksdale Air Force Base. Can’t imagine we would need to use them in Iraq. Why would we want to preposition nuclear weapons at a base conducting Middle East operations?
His final point was to observe that someone on the inside obviously leaked the info that the planes were carrying nukes. A B-52 landing at Barksdale is a non-event. A B-52 landing with nukes. That is something else.
Now maybe there is an innocent explanation for this? I can’t think of one. What is certain is that the pilots of this plane did not just make a last minute decision to strap on some nukes and take them for a joy ride. We need some tough questions and clear answers. What the hell is going on? Did someone at Barksdale try to indirectly warn the American people that the Bush Administration is staging nukes for Iran? I don’t know, but it is a question worth asking.
Good post, Larry, and it is exactly my question.
There is no way the weapons would have moved without a top-level [in this case I would guess the Decider, since he has the football, but certainly no lower than SecDef] directive to do so, because of treaty obligations dating to the Cold War, because of the potential for really big problems in the wrong hands or if there’s a crash during transport. There are radiological reports needed because of the gamma activity inherent from the design of these things, dealing with where they went, who was exposed, how much dose, etc., which requires a monitored crew [not necessarily the next ones in the flight line]. As you probably already know, things like this are most vulnerable to interdiction in transit.
The “joy ride” or mistake scenarios would end the careers of every person even remotely attached to the weapons, because of the many layers of control and clearances even to remove them from storage. There are ways to ID these things IF you see them AND know what to look for. Hard to do as a casual observer hanging around inside a B-52 on either airbase, so this was what I’d call a “cry for help” leak (if it wasn’t orchestrated, see next para) like the GAO report was to highlight the WH “tweaking” to come.
This is at the least a shot across the Iranian bow to remind them we have the big boomers and will use them, saber rattling on steroids if you will. Or, W really means it. I don’t think either are very good options.
It is apparent that you have absolutely no idea about what goes on in the Military when it comes to nukes. You wouldn’t know what a nuke looked like if it came up and bit you on the ass. If you think that this is an isolated incident, you are sadly mistaken. Not wanting to dilvudge to much of my background, I can tell you, that nukes are transported/shipped/moved/flown more times and in more countries than you could possible imagine. and, it is none of your damn business where they are. And, they don’t just blow up, in the case of an airplane crash. This is what really pisses me off about you liberals; you talk out of our ass without not having a clue as to what you are talking about!!
Boy, you sound like a real nice feller Paul, and smart too. I like how you spelled military with a captital M, shows how much you love being a slave and want others to enjoy it also; a real shame not everyone does though. We should just mind our own business and have nukes scattered everywhere; as you suggested, it’s none of our business. I hope you blow up real good when your time comes or worse still live to enjoy the realization of what is to come.
Don’t ever change; keep your brain in that jar.
Gomer
Gomer,
Don’t mind Mr. Military with a capitol M - he’s just a cracker assuming the position…
I was in the Marine Corp for 12 years. The bottom line for what is going on as our “Inner Government” is working with England in fomenting a New World Order with a President as evil as you can imagine along with Clinton as they work together as Puppets for the Military Industrial Complex.
The bottom line and good summation can be found in the words of a great Marine Corps General and one that had the backbone few Americans in power have today. Google/read
War is a Racket + Butler
Plot to seize the white house + Butler
This same agenda is up to date…….as the planning for the second 911 is close to coming to fruition and Bush’s plan for martial law leading to the consolidation of Canada, USA and Mexico into one country. Google and see what is really going on. The nukes were being moved to be used soon against Iran for a war we will once again provoke. This is the truth.
Your right, I hope more people are preparing for the same. We won’t be fooled again.
I’m sure Paul’s military wife would have another man (if she hasn’t already) before he’s even cold after being blown up in Iraq.
I think the Paul’s real name is Cheney, Dick that is.
Ah, I see. Because people are concerned that nukes were moved across the US in an apparent mistake, they’re automatically “liberals” who “talk out of [their] ass?”
I suppose that if I’m concerned about the possibility that some within the Bush Administration are itching to start a war with Iran, that would make me a pinko commie librul too?
The thing that really separates humans from the rest of the animal kingdom is that we’ve got these highly evolved brains, capable of complex thought.
Try using yours.
Disregard that guy. The country is full of people that believe they are patriotic because they blindly follow, even when the person in question has shown his true colors, instead of doing whats best for the Constitution and the Nation.
Patriotism is following the constitution, and questioning those who don’t (especially if they are doing it in our name) please don’t water down your true (and correct) statement regarding people who mislead themselves into believing in a new world order or some other nonsense because they refuse to do their civic duty and stand against all forms of tyranny.
In my simple mind, you either follow the constitution of the United States (and are a patriot) or you don’t, and fall somewhere below the level of patriot.
This country is founded on strong principles that are being challenged everyday, lets stop being polite about it and challenge those who would have us deny our belief in the tenets of this country.
First of all, if this is not an isolated incident, why is it newsworthy? I saw reports on the local news, CNN, Fox, etc. about this incident. Secondly, it sure as hell is our business where we are delivering nuclear weapons. How arrogant is Paul to make a statement like that! Since when is it not the business of the people of the United States to know what the President is doing, especially a president who long ago lost the respect as well as the trust of the people. We do not want him doing ANYTHING about which we are unaware! By the way, I am not a “liberal”, although if that sets me apart from this ignorant, negative, angry man (Paul) it may not be such a bad label to adopt.
“it is none of your damn business anyway?”
What kind of statement is that? It is our business to know these things, just as it is yours. It is our right and obligation to question our government. I am not going to sit here and have fascist neo-cons tell me what is and is not my business to know in this country’s government.
And nuclear weapons are not just shipped willy nilly Paul. The previous post was right. If they are being moved, they have to follow treaty protocols. Unless our current adminstration has decided that that is too much to do, similar to the warrentless wire tappings they couldn’t wait for court permission to use.
And what pisses me off… liars like you Paul, making up facts, lying through your teeth, just so you can win an argument.
Paul, YOUR job is to not ask questions.
MY job is make sure things go as planned. Unexpected nuclear weapons shipments is covered in that purview.
Stick to your job, Paul, and leave the thinking to those whose job it is to do the thinking. And shut up and stay in your hole.
Oh please, cut it with the arrogance already. Even though the author may not have realized nukes couldn’t be set off that way but anybody who grew up during the cold war of course knows that. We also know about the ‘accidents’ with nukes during that time as well as the cavalier attitude the military sometimes has with items they should be much more careful about. Liberal, libertarian, conservative or socialist. What does that matter? I really detest emotionally immature and deceitful posters who don’t want to “divulge” their oh so important backgrounds. And please try to curb your potty mouth.
Paul
We liberals? Always with the insults…Yeah your correct we transport nukes all the time. Not like this though. And we do not leave them on any runways for 10 hours unidentified….MORON!
Oh, it damn sure is OUR BUSINESS where OUR military flies nukes over the US, knucklehead.
Make no mistake, the author of this article hit the head on the nail:
Someone in OUR military with MORALS has warned us, again we will be the only country EVER in history to unleash this abomination on Earth.
I suspect it was the dismissed commander.
A True Patriot, if so.
Unlike someone else I am now aware of:
Up. Yours. Clown.
You are an idiot, do you know that when your President speaks, or for that matter anyone in that sort of position adresses a nation his/her image and message reaches the world.
Do you honestly think G.W.B will give the game plan away to a stupid Iranain nutjob with a Satalite dish.Your interest is to stay American, not to know the where abouts of classified Military ordiance every minute of the day. Wake up Hippie Child Love Moon God this is a time of war and idiots like you are not helping the sitution.
I wouldn’t divulge much of my background either if it consisted solely of a 20-year subscription to Soldier of Fortune magazine and repeated viewings of Red Dawn.
Hey! Red Dawn was a good movie! Everyone was in it. Besides, it could still easily happen, especially the part about coming in on commercial airliners. Seriously, we are at risk. but that’s no reason to let Bush use Nukes. It’s ironic, If he would have just held off on Iraq, Iran would have given him the perfect opportunity to attack them. Now he almost has to super-justify even a conventional attack. I fear another False Flag Operation over a Western city like Portland or maybe Pheonix. I really think he’s that desperate.
Our founding Fathers were Liberals, Jesus was a Liberal and I’ve been a Liberal sinced long before your ilk turned the word into a pejorative. Your blind faith in charlatans has clouded your reality. You need some help friend. The truth is, we love our country and speaking out against governmental tyrany is not only appropriate its mandated by the Constitution. You should wake up and help us save our constitution. You can always go back to hating for the sake of hate (the way Rush, Sean and Bill have so deliberately taught you to) just as soon as we all prevent the never ending state of war that these madmen need so as to continue with their evil. God bless America, but Heaven help us.
zig heil
Typical high-handed neocon wingnut obscurantist comment. “Stand back, you pesky kids, let me, the adult handle this.”
Being critical of THIS govenment/military (is there a difference anymore?) does not make one out as particularly leftist. Just sane.
Wake up and smell the bacon – your own arse!
The other guys are correct, someone wanted the word out before Bush got a bunch of people killed again for nothing. Gen. Pace did it earlier and now others are also doing the Patriotic thing. I too am ex-Air Force and these were attached to Hard Points, not just being transported. By the way, I’m a Conservative, just not a NEO-Con Fascist like some folks.
http://mparent7777-2.blogspot.com/2007/09/israel-attacks-syria-israel.html
http://joshualandis.com/blog/
provoking the Syrians……..? I think so.
ON NUCLEAR SAFETY
The sad fact of the matter is that, during peacetime conditions of relaxed threat especially, humans work better under fear than rah-rah inspiration ‘to do good things’.
Or at least that they need the full range foot to head of known consequences by which they can measure both the exact penalty for falling down. And how high they can reach ‘above and beyond’ while standing on that same floor of known fiduciary responsibilities.
Those in charge of nuclear weapons have a _greater_ than normal accountability for the warrantability of their actions at all times.
The USAF has failed miserably to clean house at both bases to reflect this, in creating a NEGATIVE EXAMPLE by which to ‘inspire’ others to ride herd on their own stockpiles.
The commander of the Louisiana base, along with the Wing Commander with the B-52 tail number on his TOE books are thus –both- equally responsible for the actions of the aircrew under their leadership, on and off base.
Similarly, the Commander of Minot. Along with the Director of Operations and the Maintenance Squadron Officer are equally responsible for every man on the weapons detail.
All four should be publically court martialled and forced to serve a minimum term of imprisonment not less that 2 years.
While every one of the men directly involved with the Broken Spear event itself should be given blanket dishonorable discharges, along with a permanent record in civilian life, as an alternative to also defending their actions in Court Martial proceedings.
Yet for all this, what REALLY bugs me is this. When you upload a modern weapon (and the AGM-129 is a relatively modern one) it should ‘talk to’ the aircraft over a 1760 databus which provides both conditioned power and a specific digital communications pathway (1553b or related) that SHOWS, in the cockpit, what the missile autopilot says it has in it’s warhead section. As a function of simple BIT checks and weapons system interfacing procedures that should be part of the OSO/WSO/RadarNav preflight checklist. Because these are nuclear weapons (dual key) a SIMILAR display should be cross checked by BOTH pilots up in front.
While I greatly disagree with the retirement of standoff weapons in favor of or before direct delivery (free fall) systems, if the AGM-129 ACM does not in fact have such a system, and/or the aircraft which was sent to retrieve the missiles was not able to ‘talk to them’ in confirming their status, this signals another high level breach of security by _preconditional_ (doctrinal) protocol shortcomings.
This means someone in the AF General Staff needs to fall on their sword as well.
We need nuclear weapons. In a few years when we fail to contain these systems proliferative export to or development by 3rd world nations, we will NEED them a lot more than we ever did during the Cold War. But like my daddy told me when he taught me to use a gun: There is a process of law in place to deal with unprovoked attacks so noone needs to be a hero. But accidents are as unforgiveable as they are avoidable because the only recourse you have for your own stupidity is a mirror.
We can never be more dangerous to ourselves than we are to our enemies. Because they look at our peacetime competence as a measure of ‘Not Today’ planning for war.
KPl.
Who’s to say the reason for all the publicity about the nukes were to get our attention so they can ship nukes to Iran from another base? They are very good at doing things underhandedly.
Yes, Larry, you are right. Some very serious questions need to be asked and right now… I hope that you have contacted anyone in the media you might have an inside with, and put them on to this… How about CNN and Olbermann??? any chance of getting to one of their people?
From FAS: “Beyond the safety issue of transporting nuclear weapons in the air, the most important implication of the Minot incident is the apparent break-down of nuclear command and control for the custody of the nuclear weapons. Pilots (or anyone else) are not supposed to just fly off with nuclear bombs, and base commanders are not supposed to tell them to do so unless so ordered by higher command. In the best of circumstances the system worked, and someone “upstairs” actually authorized the transport of nuclear cruise missiles on a B-52H bomber.”
Sorry, but I have trouble seeing someone “upstairs” authorizing the movement of nuclear weapons to a Middle East staging base as “the best of circumstances”. I see it as deeply, deeply frightening.
These people are crazy, and someone or something has to stop them.
Sure enough, which is why the leak source could be important to know.
If it were orchestrated as part of the rollout Larry has on another thread, it would be one of those multitudes of SAOs that harrumph on deep background to send a message. It would be completely consistent with the way Cheney does things.
Or, it is some military-connected person who knows where these are intended to go, and it was leaked to create a climate making it harder to use them (nukes are political weapons as well as military ones), and I’m sure the Aussie public won’t be amused as more details emerge. I referred to the GAO report before, a more apt comparison might be the extension several months ago of combat tours that Bush wanted to blame on the D’s for not passing his supplemental. Except, somebody leaked the memo a couple days early.
This was no “accidental” movement. That much is for certain.
I believe the story was originally reported in the Army Times here.
Nuclear Threat Initiative points out that the “US abandoned all nuclear-armed bomber flights in 1968,” due to the risk of radioactive fissile material being distributed in case of a crash. In 1991, Bushie Sr. ordered that nuclear weapons be removed from bombers and kept in storage facilities. [Armed bombers used to be kept on alert on the ground.]
So, this accident, flying live nuclear weapons across the US, violates multiple layers of command and control systems and also four decades of policy. What are the odds? How can the military say with a straight face that all nukes are accounted for? If these weapons were being decommissioned, why fly them to another air force base, which is getting rid of its ACMs?
thanks for the link. Very good information in that story.
Hard to believe this was just an “accident” considering the timing and this is the first time I can remember hearing about something like this happening “accidentally.”
I suspect these could end up in the Arabian Gulf.
Time for the tin-foil beanie.
Mistake, nukes in the pipeline or what? Leaked info by someone to alert the public to a Bush Tonkin, or intentional manipulation/leak to make the public more nervous? It’s cuddling up right next to Germany’s swoop down on “massive bomb” making terrorists right now on Yahoo news. Wonderful agitprop placement. I’m stymied.
Not bunker-busters, right?
All the water-testing we’ve heard from the administration over the past few years has been aimed at judging public reaction to the use, specifically, of bunker-penetrating nukes, which I believe are air-dropped guided gravity bombs (exclusively?). These are air-launched cruise missiles. So if I’m not mistaken in my assumptions this indicates either that the theory is unlikely and these are not being staged, or that they are staging nukes to be used beyond the bunker-busting mission.
On further consideration, I guess the obvious possibility is, as others have stated, that the warheads were being stealthily shipped in the ACMs for removal and use in other weapons.
When I heard about this, I though the same thing. CNN was reporting it as ‘accidental’, that the missiles were going to Barksdale to be scrapped, and that it was an accident that the warheads were still on them. My reaction was ‘no way, they know d*mned well those are armed. They’re trying to sneak them out for an attack.’
I don’t know whether to be glad I’m agreeing with you or p*ssed that we’re going to be on the receiving end of a whole lot of really really bad stuff if these @#$%^&* actually attack Iran with nukes. Conventional weapons would be bad enough ….
Note to Pelosi and Reid: Get off your behinds and give the idiots cheney and bush impeachment to think about, instead of Iran. You hold the fate of the world in your hands.
The possibility of unintendedly shipping nukes is ZERO. Can’t happen.
Impeachment does not go far enough. These men are decidedly dangerous and need to be put on trial for war crimes.
God, I only hope we can get thru the last few years of this administration without these %$^%&^*&* getting us embroiled in WW3.
[…] UPDATE: Looks like ex-spy Larry Johnson had the same take as I did, just a few hours (and inside contacts) later. Check it out at Staging Nukes for Iran? […]
It looks to me as if the only way to stop these lunatics is by beginning impeachment proceedings immediately. Whether the impeachment succeeds or not is irrelevant at this point. Whether they use nukes on Iran or just “ordinary” bombs, this is a very serious emergency.
Writing notes to Reid and Pelosi in the comment section of a blog is nice, but useless.
What can we do - actually do?
I worked on nuclear submarines for the Navy at Mare Island Naval shipyard for 20 years. As a Nuc worker I handled nuclear material and weapons for 15 of those years. The controls on weapons and nuclear fuel is insanely tight.. This story just CAN’T happen. The amount of people involved in logistics..Code 105 radcon, Engineers, Nuclear riggers, Code 1390 Engineers..Gawd the paperwork involved for anyone of the groups to sign off on.
This story is impossible.. Something else is afoot..
Who signed off and who told them too?
AND WHY do we need to be moving nuclear weapons unless a logistics operation is underway?
IT JUST DOESN’T HAPPEN…They don’t just move weapons from Minot for the hell of it..
Ring…
hello?
hey..we are a little low on thermonuclear tipped weapons this week..
OK, we’ll send you a few..
Make it 6
OK
_____________________________________
It doesn’t happen!!!!
Fascinating, Hoosierhoops. Why do you think the AF guys in Minot are getting nailed for this, and their careers ruined?
Maybe the leak was by the Bush adminstration itself? Maybe they want to scare the Iranians. They want the Iranians to think that they are moving nukes over to the middle east. Use the threat as leverage. Could be part of a larger strategy, which also involves the position of those two carrier groups off Iran.
Or maybe they are really moving nukes over to the middle east to be prepared if they have to use them if there is ever another terrorist attack in the U.S. that can be traced to the region, although you would think they already have plenty of cruise missiles over there now, and, therefore why wouldn’t they also already have nuclear tipped ones also there now as well?
Philip stated: Or maybe they are really moving nukes over to the middle east to be prepared if they have to use them if there is ever another terrorist attack in the U.S. that can be traced to the region,…”
As Zbiegnew Brezinski stated in his testimony to the Senate Foreign Affairs Committee earlier this spring…. a terrorist attack on U.S. -blamed - on Iran to start war. … False flags occur at the most convenient times… (just think of the London tube attacks on 7/7. A simultaneous war game going on at exactly the same time, involving exactly the same stations, exactly the same buses. Who wouda thunk it.) If there is an attack here you can probably look right towards Langley for the cultprits. Iran will do nothing to justify an attack by the U.S. but of course the American Sheep will be spun a very different tale. And then, presto chango, a new probably nuke war and martial law here at home with Blackwater’s bully boys available to manage the citizens. Good Luck all.
This whole iran situation reminds me of Ismail kadares “the concert”. it’s awork of fiction but it talks about how Mao used to create situations where people were constantly guessing at what they meant, watching his gestures for signs that some sort of action was going to take place. interpretting alot of innoucous words. not that there is anything innocous about 5 nukes. more than bush is like mao. i’ve even taken to calling Gen. petraous’s 9/11 testimony “the concert”
I have heard from several vets of this war that they are afraid of being in the last groups there… when asked why they say because they know that to gain control of the land, it will have to be with nukes. This, as many have said, was not an accident. never would have happened… the neocons have something up their sleves, and it stinks to high heaven. Needs LOTS of Media ATTENTION. IMPEACH NOW…
I vote for a leak by a concerned Zoomie who has finally learned that he’s working for nutcases.
DoD doesn’t even move a pallet of 5.56mm round ball without eleven forms filled out in triplicate and endorsed by a Field Grade officer.
Not even the Air Force could screw this pooch…
[…] from former CIA agent Larry Johnson over at his blog: Why the hubbub over a B-52 taking off from a B-52 base in Minot, North Dakota and […]
As a former Airforce aircraft mechanic I was stunned when I heard the report that nukes had inadvertantly been loaded on a B-52 and flown across country. It would be a mistake of staggering porportions if this had happened by mistake. Anyone who is familiar with Airforce proceedures regarding even the simplist of proceedures where aircraft are concerned would know that it would be all but impossible to make this kind of mistake.
Those who work on the line are some of the most profesional men and women I have ever known. Every one of them understand the inherent risks that are involved in this kind of work and follow the proceedures accordingly. With the many layers of control that exist in this kind of work, there are too many individuals that have to sign off on anything that is done. Even more so when handling weapons of any kind.
Clearly someone on the inside wanted us to know this had happened
yes, agree, not by any of the air force, or any other branch. couldn’t happen without direct plan and compliance of large numbers of people. I read that the people responsible for loading/handling have been detained, air crew ‘didn’t know so not involved’ yeah, right. 5 or 6 warheads loaded, and they didn’t know? what happened to the days of pre flight checks? what do we do with a CIC who is this sick, and no one seems able to stop him???
As a former Army EOD officer, I remember NOBODY touches a nuke with out many levels of command double checking on things, and signing off on multiple forms, and with the requirement of asecond person to double check each moveit is incredulas to thnk this cold be accidental.
I don’treally know which is truly the scarier senario …
Bush and Cheney are intentionally planning a nuke strike on Iran…
Or they have screwed up the military so bad, that the military can LOSE five nukes and nobody knows about it until they are found in a different state, in an uauthorised place with NO control over who as custody of the nuclear weapons. (because the pilot and flight commander did not sign for live active nuclear weapons according to the “official story” put out at this moment )…
sleep well tonight thinking this is the military george bush commands…..
“if they have to use them
If they have to use them?! If they HAVE to use them?!! IF THEY HAVE TO USE THEM?!!!!!
Are you out of your mind? NO ONE has to use them. No one ever has to use them.
And using nukes in case of a terrorist attack is like using a half ton bomb to swat a fly.
What an insane, insane thing to say.
I agree with every statement, sickening trying to figure out the real reason for the leak. once again, this admin. makes whomever they are using take the fall, as if i’m to believe the AF are a bunch of baffoons. My husband is a former AF pilot and this whole thing stinks and we all know it. Flightline activity is very controlled and professional, I agree, so this is no accident. Once again, the American people are treated as idiots. What is it going to take to reign in these maniacs?
When will there be a confirmed bomb count? Were there five aboard? Six? Eight or more?
The numbers I have seen are either six or five. Can’t be more than 6; they were reportedly carried on the pylons of a B-52H, in which configuration there is a maximum capacity of 6 such missiles (Google for B-52H).
What I don’t understand is, why, if they were merely being transported, were they carried attached to pylons at all? Shouldn’t they have been transported as cargo?
The whole episode strikes me as incredibly bizarre. When the warheads (attached to the missiles) were removed from storage, would there not have been an armed escort responsible for tracking the location of the warheads? It doesn’t seem reasonable that the orders would have been merely to move the missiles, remove the warheads and then mount the missiles on a plane. Surely the orders would have specified where the warheads were supposed to end up? Doesn’t make any sense to me at all…
How come Louisiana? Is it closer to get to the ME from here?
And yeah, how exactly does a pilot not know he has nukes on board? They do inspections every time before they fly. Something smells.
Uhhh…. You can look at a map (it is closer) but read the article! Barksdale is the designated base for ME operations so whether it is closer or not is irrelevant.
Larry,
First off, I think this is part of the propaganda campaign. Nothing emphasizes testicle retracting fear than having Dad and junior watching “Freedom” flying overhead only to be told that that particular piece of hardware was carrying nukes.
Also, I find it rather disingeuous of the government to be “oh deary me” about this since it happens all the freaking time.
People, think, for crying out loud. If the warheads are made in…hmm…well, if they’re not made in the Dakotas, they had to be transported there…somehow..which makes this all a little…suspicious to say the least.
So here’s my take on it all: This is to reinforce Cheney’s propaganda message by tangential association to the fear of Iranian nuclear ambitions, by establishing a baseline of a military aircraft, loaded for bear (and Larry, a porter-house steak and a liter of brown ale that says they were missing their triggers!) flying nukes overhead.
I can hear it now : “Yes America, if you think that was scary, imagine what it would be like if it were…IRANIANS BOMBERS WITH NUKES OVERHEAD, ATTACK THEM NOW!”
This is pure, unadulterated Rovian bullsh*t, and people need to put their spoons and cups down before they swallow any more of this crap.
Don’t let Bush and the Republicans scare you.
Well, Sheerahkahn, I am all for Americans getting scared enough of their government to do something about them - like storm the WH en mass and drag the bastards out of there, throw them on the ground, press their faces into the dirt with their boots, put a bag over their heads, and drag them off to parts unknown - kind of the way they love to do to poor Iraqi families.
Be nice to the Secret Service when they visit you.
When will there be a confirmed bomb count? Were there five aboard? Six? Eight or more?
Count the “mushrooms” growing over an in the morning,
(seriously sick snark off)
when is the military brass going to grow set of balls and oust these insane leaders or AT LEAST refuse the orders? what the fuck? isn’t there ANYTHING in the way of protocol in place ( just in case) the man at the helm is a fucking psychopath? hypothetically, If our president was Adolph Hitler would our military follow that fuck nut down crazy street or stand up and say once and for all and say NO? It doesn’t seem these men of valor have the right stuff. wrong is wrong no matter who tells you to do it. end of story. saying you just did your job doesn’t cut it AFTER you’ve started WW3.
Whoever is in the military that reads this this is not a stab at you, just your leaders who have checked out of the sanity Hotel.
For a pretty good explanation of your query to the Gods of War, go to Military Religious Freedom Foundation (MRFF). Make a donation while you are at it.
One reason for tight control of any nuke, beside the very small danger of a low yield explosion, is the psychological impact of any nuclear accident. Seems to me scaring people for what ever reason is right up bush/cheney’s alley. Just need somebody to figure out the “play”.
If this were a bad science fiction novel, the next event in the storyline would be the determination that two or more nukes have been “kidnapped” somewhere in-transit. After that, the kidnappers would detonate one of the missing nukes in or nearby a city within the continental USA. After that, the kidnappers would make demands of some sort. After that, Bruce Willis would drive into the kidnappers’ stronghold in a battered ‘87 Ford pickup, kill them all, and then hand carry the nuke(s) to safety.
The point of this absurd synopsis is to observe in public that the current progression of events is trending towards the discovery that two or more nukes are “missing”.
One way to tell if a nuclear detonation in the US is a false flag operation: Bush will be alive after it’s over.
Any nation or group with the resources to field nuclear weapons will cut the head off the snake with the first round — that means Bush and Congress. Second round would most likely go after the VP and joint chiefs.
I’m hoping beyond hope that the military will finally grow a pair and “just say no” to this loonytoons psychopath.
WRONG! You NEVER kill all of the enemy’s leadership. Someone has to be left alive to turn it off. Who would’ve surrendered in Japan if we nuked Tokyo instead of Hiroshima and Nagasaki? D.C. is the last place we would be targeted because it would be “bomb the bastards until we don’t have anymore in storage” without leadership to negotiate a “cease fire”.
As for this being an accident, not going to divulge my background but NO WAY IN HELL! And I really don’t appreciate the WH making my brothers and sisters in Blue look like the Keystone Kops.
A slightly different variation:
Well never take the casualties required to get Bin Ladin in Pakistan. Just like in the republican debate, the simplest way to get him would be to nuke his general vicinity. That, however, could be a big hit in the legacy department.
Now if you could convince people that OBL stole one of our loose nukes and accidentally set it off during a kegger in Waziristan, who could call us a liar? (detonating one here would really be a holocaust for GOP contributor owned real estate (nobody in this administration would give a fuck about the people.))
The best thing would be that it would vindicate all the GWOT Bush-Lip and give the shooter and the Scooter-Commuter the real thrill of cheapening the threshold for using nukes and killing millions of harmless moslems
Here’s an interesting take on attacking Iran.
We Are Going To Hit Iran. Bigtime.
It sure looks like War from this post.
God Bless.
No, that is not war, it is aggression by one party against another. War is two parties fighting - in other words, there is mutuality. There is a difference, so lets call things what they are and not use words that serve the interest of the lunatics who appear about to launch yet another massive war crime.
Just a comment about that girl reporting that info from the carrier - thats obviously fake. She’d be tarred and feathered for reporting that OVER THE PHONE.
Good comments all. So, we could probably agree there’s no good outcome for this either if we continue on the course this is following now.
One reason there is extreme accountability (aside from the safety issues and so on already noted above) is that we have to keep the Russians in the loop on where weapons are and where they go. It’s part of the SALT and START treaties in terms of the verifications of allowed weapons. The Non-Proliferation Treaty also has something on this as well. If W is blowing off Putie-poot as well, there will be serious trouble ahead. Putin has a mean streak, has a high level of nationalistic pride, and has already shown he can “do things” as well to those he doesn’t like. Remember the last round of nastiness about the anti-missile batteries in the ex-Warsaw Pact countries. Add to that the joint exercises with the Chinese, and there’s a nasty little stew brewing.
No accident that these were moved, and so the question is did the WH want it out in the news or not?
As for the possibility that someone spotted the difference at Barksdale as the plane was landing, it is possible, I suppose, but I would bet the difference would be more noticeable on the ground. From photos I’ve seen, the warheads on these ACMs are bulkhead-mounted at the nose, so that conventional and nuclear warheads can be interchanged according to perceived need. There are probably differences in length, housing shape, etc. at the nose end. Those would likely not be noticed from a distance when the plane is in the air or landing.
That said, I also find it extremely odd that the Air Force would say that these weapons were destined for retirement, when, in the aftermath of the Iraq invasion, there were reports that the services had expended a huge portion of the cruise missile inventory–so much so that the reserve capacity was being described as critical (below about 25% of normal), and the manufacturers were all running three shifts to bring stocks back up to acceptable levels. (That may be one principal reason why we haven’t seen a massive attack on Iran yet–the services may still be building up stocks.)
Why throw out 400 ACMs when your reserves of same were threatened in the last big aerial assault?
If they were due for retirement/dismantling, is that function normally performed at Barksdale? That would at least verify that a mistake could have been made. It would make much more sense that they go to Davis-Monthan, where they could be dry-stored, or sent over to the manufacturer in Arizona by truck for scavenging.
All very odd, indeed.
maybe they thought the paperwork would mark them as decommissioned and they could then be disappeared into a private stash!
Let’s not forget the $4.5b bet against the European stock market which expires in late September. Are these events linked?
I think they might have been planning this before Iraq.
And knowing a few people in the military, there is a lot of grumbling..
Well, we need a whole lot more than grumbling right now from those who may be in a position to put a stop to this insanity.