Obama’s Terrorist Ties [UPDATED]
By Larry Johnson on February 15, 2008 at 10:28 AM in Current Affairs
As Democrats and Independents weigh who they want to run against John McCain in the fall, answer this question. Can you support a candidate who is friends with terrorists? Can you support a candidate who takes money from terrorists? Well, if Obama is your man you have some problems. Today’s Bloomberg News drops this bombshell:
Besides Rezko and Giannoulias, Obama could face questions about his relationship with William Ayers, a former member of the radical group the Weather Underground who is now a professor of education at the University of Illinois in Chicago. Ayers donated $200 in 2001 to Obama’s Illinois state Senate campaign and served with him from 1999 to 2002 on the board of the Woods Fund, an anti-poverty group.
A Series of Bombings
The Weather Underground carried out a series of bombings in the early 1970s — including the U.S. Capitol and the Pentagon. While Ayers was never prosecuted for those attacks, he told the New York Times in an interview published Sept. 11, 2001, that “I don’t regret setting bombs.”
Bill Burton, Obama’s spokesman, said Ayers “does not have a role on the campaign.” Ayers said he had no comment on his relationship with Obama.
Does not have a role on the campaign? Well thank God for that. Are you kidding me?
Peter Hitchens was the first to hint at this relationship, but Tim Burger nails it. William Ayers is an American terrorist. What else do you call someone who plants bombs at Federal facilities? William Ayers has not been prosecuted for the bombings, but he was directly involved. He admits this. And do not give me the nonsense that he was fighting for a good cause. Martin Luther King’s message of non-violence had no place in the political ideology of Mr. Ayers. And Ayers is unrepentant.
First, Ayers contributed money to Obama.
Your search found 1 receipts totaling $200.00
| Contributed By | Amount | Received By | Description |
|---|---|---|---|
| Ayers, William 1329 E. 50th Street Chicago, IL 60615 |
$200.00 4/2/2001 |
Individual Contribution Friends of Barack Obama |
Second, this is more than a casual acquaintance. Obama and Ayers served together on the board of the Woods Fund. Did Obama and Ayers do more than simply sit side-by-side? Did they steer money to favored groups? Those are questions that journalists not bowing at the feet of the Obama god need to ask.
At a minimun this reminds us that there is a pattern of bad judgment by Obama. He goes in on a land deal with Tony Rezko even though he knows Rezko is a target of a Federal investigation. And his explanation? A mistake in judgment. Now this. Anyone thinking of running for President should know they cannot take money from a terrorist and they cannot serve on a board with a terrorist. Period. But this simple lesson apparently escapes the brilliant constitutional law professor.
This much we do know. Obama does not deny having a relationship with William Ayers. Obama has never repudiated the terrorism of William Ayers. If you think this is a record Obama can run on in the fall and survive you are living in an alternate universe. It is time to get some clear answers to tough questions before the Democrats sell their soul to someone whose lapses in judgment will come back to haunt them in the fall.
UPDATE: Touched a nerve eh? I apologize for being out of pocket, but it is tough to blog while flying back from Bogota. Some of you folks need to pour a stiff drink and do some deep breathing exercises. The facts are quite clear:
- William Ayers conducted terrorist attacks inside the United States and against the U.S. Government. He does not consider himself a terrorist, but he admits he did the acts.
- Barack Obama has had a long standing relationship with Ayers and is quite knowledgeable of his past.
- Barack and Ayers served together on the Wood Fund. I am told, but have not yet confirmed, that they steered money to an individual who is under Federal indictment. If that is true, life gets more interesting.
- William Ayers made a small financial contribution to Obama’s first campaign. In the total scheme of things, not significant, except it will be used by Republicans against Obama in the fall. How do you explain to Joe or Jane Average American that a guy who describes U.S. Marines as terrorists not only gave you money but also helped raise money for your campaign? Do you really think most Americans will shrug and say, “No big deal”?
My point in getting these issues out on the table now is to get them out now. If you don’t understand how to make a TV ad that opens with dead Marines in Vietnam and Beirut, fade to William Ayers calling them terrorists, fade to Barrack Obama and Ayers on the same board, and fade to Ayers as a fund raiser for Barrack, then you know nothing of politics.
Make your decision with the best information available. That’s my point. Let’s get Obama’s skeletons out in the open while something can still be done. Closing one’s eyes and wishing this goes away is silly.
Watch the chronology: you’re attacking Obama for receiving a contribution from Ayers *before* Ayers’ public admissions.
Would you explain your reasoning, for this statement?
Ayers was well known as a member of an American terrorist group, this is not in question.
You appear to want to argue semantics versus fact, but I may be reading you wrong.
What I found interesting, though, is Ayers and Obama’s connections to the Arab American Action Network.
Have they been targeted by the FBI for possible money laundering, in connection with terrorism?
Over 3500 New Yorkers, secretaries and stock brokers DIED due to these connections, whether Obama is directly connected, or not.
And then all those airplanes, and the Pentagon, on 9.11.
Not to mention those blown up round the world, daily, in the name of American political campaign financing, apparently.
It matters, and if it turns out to be provable, kinda gross you think it’s OK, by equivocating, choosing to obfuscate.
I am unaware of any ties between that entity and terrorism, ever.
Which entity?
Have you researched the groups targeted by the FBI, after 9.11, or those investigated by Fitzgerald?
Shouldn’t we wait until the Rezko’s trial, explore Obama’s connections, a bit more, before mindlessly defending him? Isn’t that prudent? It’s only the democratic nomination for President.
The kicker is Rezko, and Auchi, their middle eastern ties, I’d really like to see that fleshed out.
As far as I’m concerned, there is simply no way to spin Obama’s relationship with Rezko, he’s a fixer, and he’s dirty, fact.
If that is acceptable to you, a President nurtured by a man of that sort, OK, but, it’s not healthy.
If he’s corrupt, he’s already damaged goods.
Shouldn’t we wait until the Rezko’s trial, explore Obama’s connections, a bit more, before mindlessly defending him? Isn’t that prudent? It’s only the democratic nomination for President.
Funny, I would ask if we shouldn’t wait until the evidence comes out before mindlessly INDICTING Obama.
But them I’m just naive. I think guilt-by-association arguments are often lacking in real evidence.
And connecting Obama to 9-11 is the most incendiary, provocative crap I’ve heard yet. Where’s your proof?
Proof?! Shoephone, Simon has made all kinds of wild allegations and strange accusations here, and he has yet to produce a suggestion of a scintilla of anything to substantiate it. The reason is obvious. I’d say he makes it all up in his head, but I think he actually pulls it out of a part of the anatomy that is closer to the ground.
Shirin -
I’m convinced that Simon is a paid GOP troll. He suddenly showed up here about three weeks ago, ranting at full bore. Two other particular commenters showed up at exactly the same time, using the same tactics, hijacking many of the threads. One of those commenters has since disappeared (a positive result).
I’m all for fleshing out the past and present corruptions of candidates, and Lord knows, I am no fan of Obama. But the dirty tactics I’m seeing here lately only confirm how nutty some of the so-called supporters on each side can be. Of course, as an Edwards gal, I have less stomach for this nonsense. My only goal is to prevent McCain from winning the White House.
In the last several days I’ve noticed many new commenters here in the threads, a few of whom I know and recognize from other blogs I’ve been associated with. But some of them I have never seen before and I don’t have to wonder what the motivations behind their tactics are.
Some of the more incendiary posts don’t help much.
The circular firing squad of the Democratic party is in high gear.
“Some of the more incendiary posts don’t help much.”
I am afraid that includes an increasing number of the posts on the main page. TThis one is already at outlandish, and rapidly approaching outrageous.
The hyperbole, and hysterical air of desperation are getting palpable - and embarrassing - and they are driving off a lot of long-time readers and commenters. You can bet for every one who says “I can’t take this anymore, this is not what I came here for, goodbye” you can be sure there are AT LEAST ten more who just don’t come back.
It’s too bad. This used to be a place where you could read interesting analysis, and have a lively discussion/argument with a mostly bright and fairly rational group of people. Now the main page reeks, and the comment section is worse.
Shirin,
I couldnt agree more. This post is like something from Red State or Fox News, and Larry’s “I’m doing it for the good of the campaign” shtick is nauseating.
I have not made my final decision on whether I support Obama or Clinton, but the recent tactics of both Hillary’s campaign and her shills is, without question, driving me toward Barack.
Regarding your conviction that Simon/Mike Howell is a troll, I have never EVER suggested this about anyone in all the years I have been posting on the internet (though others, including some here, have flat out accused ME), but I have come to the same conclusion. Call me naive, but I have never really been convinced that the troll phenomenon was real, and the accusation is often hurled at someone with an unpopular position just to try to discredit them or shut them up. However, I cannot find any other explanation for what we have seen here.
Shirin, i don’t disagree that “troll” is thrown at people spuriously, but unfortunately there are people who lurk around simply to provoke conflict only. They don’t enjoy debating that isn’t their game. I have watched people even confess that they were only wanting to tick off the locals before they moved on elsewhere to do the same thing.
It would be nice to not lob Troll at someone we simply deeply disagree with and whose style may be rough. I have friends who are pretty damn rough with their opinions, but they aren’t trolls.
Exactly. But in this case, I don’t see any other explanation for the behaviour, the baiting, the game playing, the nonsense talk, the refusal to engage in any real dialogue.
Paid troll? I don’t know, do those really exist? But aside from the fact that Simon/Mike Howell have become deadly boring, there is no useful conversation to have there.
I have also been in the “is that the mole”, “is that the COINTEL guy” crowds. I know what you mean. Paid trolls? yes.
they do exist. sorry to say. But it still isn’t wise tactic to assume we see them.
Well, let’s just say that Simon/Mike Howell is useless, and let it go at that. I tried to have an actual conversation with him several times, and have watched others struggle also. It’s pointless, and I for one am sufficiently bored to move on.
Are you for real? You call that a phenomenon, which means something measurable, but don’t think it’s real? In other words you are seeing things.
Perhaps he drinks.
shoephone/shurin -
Say what you want about me, but leave Simon out of it. I’ve never met Simon, but he or she makes a hell of a lot more sense than your drivel. I have lots of real live friends and you mean nothing to me as does anything about trolls.
Your delusional thinking that has led you to believe that being “for” a candidate who is no longer in the race will somehow help is pathetic. The only way John Edwards has a chance now that Urkle Hussein Obama the Charlatan from Chicago is still preaching will be if Urkle is indicted before the convention.
Actually, I’ve spent the past three years of my life investigating them.
Adam, I am personally acquainted with a number of the people involved in AAAN. Of COURSE they have no links to terrorism.
The thing is, though, that as you probably know, Zionist groups hate them and are constantly accusing them of all kinds of horrible things because of their attempts to integrate Arab Americans with other American communities, and bring the Arab, and particularly the Palestinian narrative in front of Americans, thus displacing the Zionist version of things that has dominated American thinking for nearly a century. They would not be so “dangerous” of course, except that their leadership includes some of the most active and powerfully effective voices for the Arab/Palestinian point of view.
It is interesting, isn’t it, how Simon and his alter ego, Mike Howell, manage to smear both Obama and Arabs at once while managing to sound relatively reasonable.
It is interesting, isn’t it, how Simon and his alter ego, Mike Howell, manage to smear both Obama and Arabs at once while managing to sound relatively reasonable.
I doubt that either one plan to vote for ANY Democrat.
Anyway…back the serious. The Zionist knuckleheads at DEBKA are plotting against us
Syria vows to strike back at Israel for Imad Mughniyeh’s killing in Damascus and “repeated encroachments”
Posted by Matt in February 15th, 2008
military sources report: Thursday night, Feb. 14, Syrian officials fanned out among Arab broadcasting stations with a warning: Damascus will attack Israel shortly following a decision by Syrian leaders to end its policy of restraint against its territorial violations.
Israeli land, sea, air and homeland defense units were earlier ordered to prepare to defend the country’s northern borders against attacks by Hizballah, including rocket strikes, and Syria. Reinforcements were rushed to the north.
Israel has received a stream of intelligence confirmations that Iran, Syria and Hizballah have determined not to let Mughniyeh’s death pass without an immediate response. They are working together to mount a revenge operation.
http://www.1913intel.com/2008/02/15/syria-vows-to-strike-back-at-israel-for-imad-mughniyeh%E2%80%99s-killing-in-damascus-and-repeated-encroachments/
@ cee
Some things are a fixture on every website, discussion group, chat room, nntp newsgroup, email list.
http://tantek.pbwiki.com/TrollTaxonomy
I find myself in there multiple times but modesty and concern prevent me from blowing my all knowing horn.
I checked. Mine isn’t there.
“We hold these truths to be self evident, that all trolls are created equally”…
That link is a study in human physcology.
How many tines does a salad fork have?
http://www.albion.com/bookNetiquette/
“Syria vows to strike back at Israel for Imad Mughniyeh’s killing in Damascus and “repeated encroachments””
1. Oh yeah, Syria is going to attack Israel for the murder of Mughniya - I’m sooooo sherrrrrrrrr! Bashar Al Asad, who is in fact relatively quite moderate, has suddenly developed a death wish even his father did not entertain!
2. Aside from its 100% illegal and illegitimate occupation, colonization of, and theft of resources from the Golan Heights (which Israel systematically ethnically cleansed in 1967 of 95% of its Syrian population), I am not aware that Israel has been encroaching on Syria’s territory nearly as much as it does on Lebanese territory.
Its violations of Lebanese territory both by air and land take place multiple times a week, sometimes multiple times a day, and are unprovoked and often deadly to civilians. They often deliberately terrorize Lebanese population centers with sonic booms and such.
shirin -
When did I mention Arabs? Get a grip!
Barack Hussein Obama is the one running around saying he’s not a muslim. Barack Hussein Obama has spent hundreds of thousands of dollars on ads saying he isn’t muslim. Since he decided to run for President. I think it’s creepy.
Obama doesn’t need me to smear him. The Republicans will cut him to ribbons with the truth about his unsavory actions.
I could never vote for any candidate that asked someone under investigation for kickback schemes for a mansion like Barack Hussein Obama did with Rezko.
Barack Hussein Obama wanted a mansion so he didn’t help his constituents when they went without heat.
His office also dragged its heels on predatory lending…acquaintance tried to get help and was ignored….
What was this in regard to?
We have a double standard here. Hillary sneezes–alert the media. Obama runs the most sleezy campaign in history–he is an articulate man who inspires people.
http://www.suntimes.com/news/politics/124171,CST-NWS-obama05.article
But not this?
“Have you researched the groups targeted by the FBI, after 9.11…”
Yeah, you know, the Palestinian Christian family that owned a very good and popular little Mediterranean deli not far from my house were surveilled and harassed so much by the FBI after 9/11 that after two years they finally couldn’t take it anymore, and sold their business to a Mexican guy (needless to say, the food has not been quite the same since, though the new owner does try). Their teenaged sons, who all went to school, got good grades, and worked regularly at the store were followed and questioned. They were literally asked by the FBI why so many people kept going into the back of the store and then coming back out again. Ummmmm - ’cause that’s where the bathroom is? Maybe? Ya THINK?!
So, being targeted by the FBI or anyone else after 9/11 simply means that you committed the crime of being in the United States After 9/11 While Being Arab.
And heaven help you if you had any kind of history of activism!
shoephone/Shirin -
You make NO sense! Your stupid story “Yeah, you know, the Palestinian Christian family that owned a very good and popular little Mediterranean deli not far from my house were surveilled and harassed so much by the FBI after 9/11 that after two years they finally couldn’t take it anymore, and sold their business to a Mexican guy (needless to say, the food has not been quite the same since, though the new owner does try).”
There are mob restaurants that I’m sure Urkle Hussein Obama is familiar with that have been around forever, even under constant FBI surveillance, so I have a whole lot of trouble with your story.
Are you sure that it wasn’t the health code inspector? Maybe that’s why they had to close?
Maybe they wanted to get away from you?
And screw your bullshit against Mexicans.
You didn’t answer my question, shirin? you’re just spooling.
I mean, discuss the issues, instead of creating strawmen to discredit, you look silly, can’t you tell, or do you think this type of troll tactic is still effective?
Not a very interesting read, and you’ve put out your portfolio, MO.
All that spool, and Obama is STILL connected to Auchi, and Rezko.
Wow.
All that work for nothing.
Entity - BULLSHIT!
Adam B is a Kossack who drinks the Obama kool-aid undiluted. He is not a disinterested individual.
Very few disinterested observers left anywhere.
Blog people appear to have decided which dog in the fight is theirs and which dogs must be poisoned.
Larry is not what one would call a disinterested individual either. He’s got his oars in the water pulling as hard as he can for Senator Clinton. A bit Rovian about it but it is his blog. This latest effort is a bit subpar as is Susan’s that preceeded it. The next ones will be up to standard.
Blue State Girl - talk about calling the kettle black. Larry is essentially an adjunct of the Clinton campaign. Hardly a disinterested individual either.
I find all this guilt by association perilously close to the kind of McCarthyism our country rejected years ago. I’m really sorry to see Larry waving this crap around as if it means anything.
Meanwhile, Clinton can’t even run her campaign. Why do we think she’ll do better with the country?
John,
It was repeated here that Hillary thinks that Fox news treats her better than any other network.
I wonder what she would have to say out this idiotic bs!
Fox News Radio’s Tom Sullivan aired “side-by-side comparison” of speeches by Hitler and Obama
Summary: Fox News Radio host Tom Sullivan took a call from a listener who stated that when listening to Barack Obama speak, “it harkens back to when I was younger and I used to watch those deals with Hitler, how he would excite the crowd and they’d come to their feet and scream and yell.” Sullivan then played a “side-by-side comparison” of a Hitler speech and an Obama speech. Sullivan mimicked the crowd during both speeches, yelling, “Yay! Yay!” When a later caller complained that Sullivan was “denigrating” Obama with the comparison, Sullivan said he wouldn’t play it again, then begged: “Can I, please, one more time? Just one more time? Then I won’t do it again. … Until the next time.”
http://mediamatters.org/items/200802130016?f=h_latest
“I find all this guilt by association perilously close to the kind of McCarthyism our country rejected years ago.”
Are you now, or have you ever walked by a mosque?
By the way, I just can’t WAIT to go through Customs, Homeland Security, etc. when I return in May after spending a month in Syria. It was annoyingly silly (including sexist stuff like “what does your husband do for a living?”, “I don’t have a husband”, “OK, what does your ex husband do for a living?”, “why do you assume I have an ex husband?”, “OK, well, if you HAD a husband or an ex husband, what would be do for a living?”) but mild when I came back from Pakistan and `Oman a year or so ago, but from what I am hearing it’s gotten worse.
“I’m really sorry to see Larry waving this crap around as if it means anything.”
Disappointing and embarrassing are two words that have come to mind.
When someone with no record is running for President isn’t it important to know what he stands for? If you are with someone who murders someone you can be tried for murder too.
Seems like Obama likes to hang with radicals. His Minister worked with Louis Farakan, for example. You may not want to hear your idol has feet of clay but alot of us do. Its our country too.
yeah…. i guess i won’t be returning to this site until after the nominee is selected then. Larry and this blog was a breath of fresh air for a long time, and was a credible voice of reason from someone who has moderate political views. something we deparately need, though i’m quite progressive. now, apparently not unlike DKos and Hillary bashing, anyone who supports Obama has “drunk the coolaid” and “can’t think for themselves” and has “succumbed to the cult”. you folks sicken me. i keep telling everyone that i’m a progressive when i’m actually a ratonalist. if the right wing had any evidence whatsoever that supply side economics worked - for the MAJORITY, i’d be all for it, just as if there were any evidence that Communism (the economic structure) worked, i’d be all for it. i’m an evidence based rationalist. i’ll be honest, i don’t see the solid evidence for any of these ties to terrorism…. on the other side, referring to Hillary, are we to take what her husband did at all in account when deciding for or against? Bill Clinton was the best Republican president we have ever had. we’re still trying to sort out the crazy mess that is NAFTA, and the Telecommunications Act of 1996 has given us a political discourse worthy of the Pravda comparison.
so this is my own little GBCW message to you all. i’m perfectly willing to entertain any evidence anyone has regarding ties to terrorism. i haven’t seen a thing here.
i’ll be back when the topics of conversation turn to things we KNOW (remember when Larry was trying to get everyone to admit Plame was covert? ya’ know, FACTS like that), or things we can rationally debate. Obama’s ties to terrorism vs. Clinton murdering Vince Foster is what i’m getting here…..
see ya’
christian aaron -
Don’t go. You’ll get fat or sick or something. Plus, I like the way you debate.
The you haven’t been reading.
Who makes money off terrorism, and how?
Who facilitates the sale of US weapons systems, and who profits?
Oh yeah, Simon! I have been waiting for you to start with “Obama did 9/11″. You’ve been transparently building up to it for a while now.
You go, Simon! Yeah! Obama did 9/11! Obama did 9/11! Obama did 9/11!
GAWD!
No no shirin, YOU did 9.11.
The NSA trained you as a Manchurian candidate, erasing your memory.
You have no knowledge of your actions, shirin, I’m sorry.
Now go get me a beer.
“What I found interesting, though, is Ayers and Obama’s connections to the Arab American Action Network.”
Oh yes! That well-known terrorist money laundering group the Arab American Action Network! Well, as you know, Simon, any group with Arab in its name has GOT to have SOMETHING to do with terrorism, right? Therefore, if Obama knows someone who knows someone who knows someone who is in any way affiliated with any organization with Arab in its name, why that just proves that he is connected with terrorism - or worse!
And the Arab American Action Network, of ALL THINGS! Just LOOK at their mission statement:
“The Arab American Action Network (AAAN) is a grassroots, community-based organization that seeks to empower Chicago area Arab immigrants and Arab Americans through the combined strategies of community organizing, advocacy, education and social services, leadership development, and forging productive relationships with other communities. The AAAN works to improve the quality of life of Arab Americans by building our community’s capacity to be an active agent for positive social change.”
They have STRATEGIES, Simon! STRATEGIES! And not just strategies, but strategies for SOCIAL CHANGE - now, you KNOW what THAT means, Simon!
And you think maybe Obama knows someone who knows someone who knows someone who might have a relative who met someone who walked by the AAAN office once?! You are definitely ONTO something here, Simon! OMG, Simon! Obama is clearly part of one of their STRATEGIES! And this dangerous man, who is affiliated with this obviously dangerous organization is actually running for President?! Say it isn’t so, Simon, say it isn’t so!!!!!!!
And to make matter worse, here is a description of one of their community projects:
“A program created to assist children excel in their school work and become a productive part of their communities. We are located in a neighborhood where many Arabs reside and so we do serve many of them.”
Oh nooooooo! This is AWFUL! Helping kids to excel in school and become productive community members! For sure, their real goal is to recruit them to be suicide bombers - and now it seems they’re not just targeting Arab kids. It sounds like they’re casting a very wide net here, and targeting good, red-blooded white Euro-American kids for their dastardly plans! I don’t care HOW many degrees of separation Obama has from this horrible gang of mass murderers, he needs to be in prison, not running for President!
And look, at THIS incriminating paragraph from a report on National Arab American Service Day, 2005 (Arab American SERVICE DAY?!! Don’t they mean Arab American TERRORISM MONEY LAUNDERING day?):
“At another Chicago site, the Arab American Action Network cleaned up the grounds of a hospice equipped to give comfort and medical care to small children with serious illnesses.”
You know, I remember seeing a photo of that, and in that photo I saw one black man working along with them. I’ll bet he knew someone who knew someone who donated to Obama’s campaign! There you have it! Obama is definitely in bed with this Arab (and clearly, therefore, very dangerous) organization, and receiving laundered terrorist money from them. Why, he might have received as much as $200 from them!
OMG! And look at THIS!!!!!
“Respected community members and workers in the Arab-American community gathered at the Arab-American Action Network (AAAN) office on the Southside of Chicago on Sept. 13 to discuss domestic violence, a pressing matter that seems to be growing within the burgeoning community. Although this issue has been addressed by various mosques and organizations throughout the community, it has never been dealt with on a larger scale: the entire community working together to eradicate the problem and to provide help for families facing such situations.”
Look, it’s OBVIOUS what this “domestic violence” meeting was REALLY about!
“…community members and workers in the Arab-American community gathered at the Arab-American Action Network (AAAN) office on the Southside of Chicago on Sept. 13 to discuss…violence…on a larger scale: the entire community working together…”
And it also says that “this issue has been addressed by various mosques…throughout the community“. Well, we ALL know what THAT means, don’t we, Simon!
And now they’re meeting openly to discuss committing terrorism in America on a LARGER SCALE!
You know, Simon, we should all thank you for helping us to connect Obama to this terribly, terribly dangerous organization. And how shocking is it that this Arab-American Action Network is actually operating openly in OUR COMMUNITIES, and even having ARTICLES written about its activities while both this obviously dangerous group and its guiding light and main contributor Barak HUSSEIN Obama are walking around free men (only men, of course, because as we know, Arabs keep their women locked up or behind veils at all times).
Truth?
Usual PR onslaught to discredit, you’ve done nothing to address my concerns, though, just trying to throw doubt on them, and not well.
One, there is enough press now to verify what I have written, so your attempts at intimidation are 90’s Rovian crap. Without a cooperative press, you’re sunk, you should be able to gauge that factor before you choose a method of retribution. All situations are fluid, apparently this stupid krew, and other light guys, missed this? This is OLD SCHOOL shit, and you’ve showed me you attack by template, you’re uninformed, and do not recognize how you’re being played.
And I did manage to throw you into more internal chaos.
Secondly, I wouldn’t even use your work as toilet paper, it’s so poorly reasoned, which explains the support for Obama. Cmon, no smart guys? Oh, yeah..
So, see, it never goes away.
You just don’t know who your enemy is, do you?
And next they step up to aggression, with groups of this sort, some will, after a period of time, go to violence, targeted physical intimidation, ie, you might find your tires slit, or your business blown up. Or your family harassed, and we ALL have families, right?
Which is the troll.
Cmere, tool…
Again this is the group who supports Obama, and other middle east terror enablers.
heh.
Otherwise I would ignore it, what I’m writing is true, verified by the papers, Fitzgerald, it’s there. He’s trying to draw me into an passive aggressive fight, and depending on HOW you want to play him, you either ignore it, or engage.
Also, notice how the troll is filling in the blanks: Obama connected to 9.11? Well, no, but I’ll look, sounds insane, but you said it not me.
Unless it was an attempt at absurdity, and it turns out to be true. Oh, the irony!
Otherwise, he’s just an insipid bore, there is NOTHING new or creative or even freshhhhh here, why bother? A minor wannabe.
You wouldn’t give these guys a second thought, they’re not smart, look at the PR technique they use, look at how they reason, the idea of A Clockwork Orange is a myth.
Who ya fighting?
And they will come back, revealing the same old shit they always did, let them spin, and then you control them.
This type of PR hurts our country, in the end, people who tell the truth about corrupt politicians should not be intimidated by such poor reasoning trash, whether it’s this guy, or Rove, manning the tubes for a 160,000 a year..
They’re stupid, they hurt the country, and they allow the most mediocre to flourish, ie Obama.
This isnt’ an open discussion, this is PR technique, c. 1995.
Shirin supports Obama? Since when?
You are truly a dunce. But since you’ve only been trolling here for the last three weeks you obviously have no clue as to who, or what, Shirin supports.
I read minds, I purged his subconscious, didn’t I tell you?
Oh, wait that would be cheating, ok…
…hmm, I guess it’s something only the literate understand.
Inference from text. And yes, Shirin uses a PR technique, and so do you, to say as an absolute, Shirn does not support Obama because Shirin said so would not be correct, in terms of his rhetoric, he does support Obama.
It’s like a simple game of double dutch, with you, boring as child, for me, too.
But you do reveal your thought process, your lack of ability to understand the arguments, weak deflection, and I thank you.
And again, reflective of “making your own reality” shirin may start to believe this simple technique protects him, but in a court of law, it wouldn’t. I mean, Shirin may think he has control, but he doesn’t.
Perhaps you can ask University of Chicago trained Alan B, he’s a legal genius, taught by the equally brilliant constitutional law professor, Odama.
Anyway, you operate from a base of simplistic reasoning, bottom line, why you think your simple statements would work, I don’t know.
Right?
It’s simply a matter of articulating and refuting your reasoning.
Without a complicit press, you just look stupid, a non intellectual, light as air, just like Obama, Britney Spears, pure pop for now people.
An incredibly shitty foundation by which to commit crime, btw, to win an election, it’s Cheney and Rove, too.
Here’s the thing, Simon. You have never once provided a suggestion of a scintilla of ANYTHING to support anything you have put here. All you have is speculation-based innuendo, most of it very far-fetched.
I DO admire, however, the way you manage to simultaneously smear both Obama and Arabs. Two birds with one turd! Very skillful indeed!
Here’s the other thing, Simon. I am pretty well connected in the Arab community, and happen to know some of the founders and board members of AAAN whom you are libeling so freely today. Some of them are, in fact, very well known and respected Arab-Americans. Does the name Dr. Rashid Khalidi ring a bell with anyone?
So, Simon, pardon me if I do not take you seriously, and if I point out to you and to others here that you are pulling all this stuff out of your southern region.
And finally, let me repeat that if you can’t find enough real, verifiable, documentable stuff in Obama’s real record, then you are not trying hard enough. I found enough very early on to convince me that I did not want him as President, and I didn’t really have to work all that hard at it. It was right there in front of me.
Shrin, chill dude, you’re foaming.
I said I think Obama is a terrorist enabler, I’m sure the folks of the AAAN are as wholesome as the republican party.
Relax, dude.
And don’t be such a racist, stop accusing all mosques of terrorist activity, Shirin.
Shirin and shoephone were attempting to throw the blog into chaos, IMO.
How would one play this as a strategy in the middle east, say, shoephone launching an asymmetric attack, and me countering?
Well, how do I view Adam B as a lawyer?
I don’t think much of him, no matter how many lawsuits he files, he’s just doesn’t strike me as smart, or mature, or particularly insightful, and this maybe a soft spot with him.
It would bother the child in him, the one that makes him love Obama, unconditionally, the one that makes him pose as a player, when he isn’t, and I’ve got a hook.
Shirin,
I strongly admire your strong sense of fairness. And I completely agree with you, that being Arab or Muslim or anyone else in the United States, should NEVER be cause for harassment, invasion of privacy or false charges. Frankly the constant shilling about “Islamofacistis” which brings about Hate crimes sickens me.
What I fail to understand is WHY you support Obama. In 2004, for his Senate Campaign, Obama received almost $91,000 from Pro- Israeli Lobbies (AIPAC). History shows Obama ALWAYS returns favor to his larger donors.
http://www.opensecrets.org/industries/recips.asp?Ind=Q05&cycle=2004&recipdetail=S&Mem=N&sortorder=U
During the Israeli/Lebanese War, which I hope everyone here knows was started by Israel, Obama voted AGAINST a cease fire, which Lebanon was requesting. Obama stated his reason thus:
http://joesschool.blogs.com/olsononline/2006/12/is_barack_obama.html
And, Obama did indeed visit the town of Fassouta in Northern Israel in Janaury 2006.
http://obama.senate.gov/news/060111-obama_visits_re/index.php
Most recently Obama received his AIPAC stamp of approval by writing to the American Ambassador at the UN
http://www.motherjones.com/commentary/columns/2008/01/obamas-israel-shuffle.html
The only Muslims Obama supports are his family and cousin Odinga in Kenya. He definitely does not support Mid Easterners, or the Arabs. Obama continuously praises troops for ALL they do in Iraq, and yet:
http://www.zmag.org/content/showarticle.cfm?ItemID=13396
Obama wants the U.S. to
Obama also has no problem bombing Iran and told CNN he considered it the most dangerous place on earth. However, Military and Intelligence officials agree that Pakistan, with its nuclear weapons, is the most dangerous place on earth. Glen Ford of Znet states
https://zcommunications.org/znet/viewArticle/14756 (Just hit the link to go on through – no damage I have been there several times)
.
So I sincerely ask again, what are your reasons for supporting Obama? He seems to be against everything you stand for.
Nellie,
I know this was directed to Shirin but she doesn’t support Obama.
I do in spite of all that you listed.
Hillary takes the same stance. Why do you support her?
Cee
Hillary’s votes are similar, but she does not make a lot of waves - which leaves the door open for diplomacy.
Obama seems to love the sound of his own rhetoric and does not think - judgment issue.
Actually, I would rather have had John Edwards be the nominee.
Obama’s ideas on bombing Iran and Pakistan terrify me. I have a grandson who is at “draft age”. Hillary is NOt promising to increase troops by 100,000. How is Obama going to do that without a draft?
Nellie,
I wanted Feingold but I’m working with who I have.
I disagree with you on Hillary. I don’t trust her. She said she wouldn’t negotiate without pre-conditions and that those same negotiations would be used for propaganda purposes. I guess she took a poll and later said she would negotiate.
She also recently went on to say that Putin had no soul! How helpful is this?
Of course he fired back.
This is not the head of state I want.
Nellie,
Sorry I missed commenting on Pakistan.
His statement on that was disturbing. I hope the people around him will give him better advise.
“Obama’s ideas on bombing Iran and Pakistan terrify me.”
Me too, and so to Hillary’s ideas about bombing Iran, and the fact that she says nukes are on the table is a deal breaker for me.
Hillary has never met a military action she did not support. She considers military violence a valid tool of foreign policy. She has said she considers it an option to bomb Iran to “bring them into line” (or words to that effect). That is not acceptable. Military force should be reserved for defense, not to “bring into line” a country that is not, in any case, out of line. Iran is not doing anything with its nuclear program that it does not have every right to do, and in general it is not doing anything that other states, including the United States do not do even more of.
“Hillary is NOt promising to increase troops by 100,000.”
Oh, but she is! I have not heard a number from her, but she has stated clearly her intention to increase the size and the budget of the military!
“How is Obama going to do that without a draft?”
Good question! Another question is how is HILLARY going to do it without a draft.
And an even more important question is for what purpose do they both want a larger military? The United States has not needed or used its military for defense (the only legitimate purpose of a military) in how many decades now?
This is really too boring.
Anyone who has been reading and posting here for any length of time knows full well that Shirin does not support either Obama or Clinton. She sees them as virtually the same on foreign policy matters(her number one issue) and has said so many, many times.
But since this site has been hijacked by trolls the serious, respectful converstations that used to take place here have disappeared.
Nellie, I do not support Obama, I have never supported Obama, and I will never support Obama. I have been making that clear for months, and have given some of my reasons, which are based on a combination of his record as an elected official and his stated positions on issues that are most important to me. Maybe you missed all that, or maybe you forgot about it in all the hysteria that has overtaken this site in the last weeks, but it’s all here.
I also do not support Hillary, and for some of the same reasons, because when it comes to my priorities there is not enough difference between them to matter.
I was not an Edwards supporter per se, but had decided that I could give him my vote without throwing up, so I voted for him in the primary, even though he had already withdrawn.
Please do not mistake my dislike for the kind of witch hunt/tabloid rubbish that we are seeing for Obama support. I have, by the way, responded in the same way when I saw crap here about Hillary.
The whole business is completely appalling, and is eroding my respect for some of the people I had thought were serious and sophisticated about political matters. On the up side, I now have considerably more respect for my own ability to take a reasonable, rational approach.
Thank you for responding. I have bad days in which I have to take too many meds, and it clouds my recollections.
I believe I was referring back to a conversation you were having with Mr. Murder and Simon about Auchi.
I know its a few days later - but some days I simply am not able to do coherent long posts.
By the way - I am not crazy about the foreign policy from either candidate.
I have downgraded to who is the sanest and leaast likely to get us blown up in that area.
On Domestic Policy that is important to me, Social Security, Education, Health Care and the Economy - Hillary is way ahead of Obama.
I also voted for Edwards in the Primary in NH.
Obama’s lack of honesty and some of his campaign Shenanigans disturb me. I will not vote for him if he is the nominee.
Hillary at least I feel will do much on Healthcare and other domestic issues.
Guess I am saying which will give me as close to half a loaf as possible.
Nellie, I am sorry for your health problems. I hope they are temporary, and wish you a full recovery.
I can understand people supporting Hillary when they have rational reasons for doing so, as it seems you do.
“I will not vote for him if he is the nominee.”
Well, then, whom WILL you vote for?
The conversation about Auchi was a defense of reason, not of Obama.
At this point I will either wirte in Edwards name, or leave it blank if Obama is the nominee.
I plan to do something similar no matter who is the candidate - either write in someone (maybe Edwards), or vote for a third party candidate.
Thanks, Cee and Shoephone.
Seriously, this place is going downhill rapidly starting with the main page. I used to read most of the items on the main page, and found the discussions stimulating, if at times frustrating. Now I mostly just look at the headlines, roll my eyes and move on, and the discussions are getting less and less interesting, perhaps in part because some of the more interesting people are bowing out.
(That was not about you, Nellie - you are not part of the problem.)
I would disagree with this, nelly.
First, I would explore Obama’s relationships to Rezko, and the Arab American groups which held fundraisers for him.
I would then ask those who have dealt with him, unguarded, what his true stated view on the Middle East is. You’re essentially painting a picture of Obama as Richard Perle, the neocon. On the one hand, he decries the terrorism aimed at Israeli citizens, and rightly so, but on the other, there are implications, even through Sybil Edmonds, he deals in illegal “shoes,” selling American “shoes” to those who would hurt Israel.
You appear to be thinking in analogue, if Obama supports Israel, Obama cannot be a traitor, a terrorist enabler, another propaganda technique, a false analogy. Your words appear to question Shirin’s support, but you make the case Obama cannot possibly be attached to Rezko, and Hezbollah, say.
So I have to doubt your credibility, as a two step process of sorts, your analogy is specious, rather facile.
Simon:uh?
You appear to be thinking in analogue,
As opposed to Digitially?
Sequentially?