Europe’s 46th Nation, Kosovo (Updated)
By Taters on February 18, 2008 at 9:00 AM in Current Affairs, Hillary Clinton, Kosovo
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| U.S. first lady Hillary Rodham Clinton | ||
Kosovo declared its independence yesterday and despite joyous celebrations of its newfound status, she faces an uphill climb. The economy is devastated - unemployment is rampant and skyrocketing. Crime and corruption - including human trafficking is widespread. Kosovo’s suffering has taken its toll. And having a primarily Muslim populace has not endeared it to its neighbors.
Countries such as Spain, Greece, Cyprus, Bulgaria, China and most notably Russia and Serbia, refuse to recognize Kosovo’s independence.
When the US and NATO intervened in 1999, they were not without their detractors.
From the US left, Noam Chomsky, Justin Raimondo, Matt Taibbi and the Nation magazine were among those voices that clearly opposed Nato intervention. From the right, the GOP - including then Texas Gov. George W. Bush and now disgraced former congressman Tom DeLay, accused the US of nation building and the use of force without an exit strategy.
Another voice in 1999, that of First Lady Hillary Rodham Clinton spoke against the ethnic cleansing of the Kosovars. Here she speaks from a refugee camp in Macedonia.
Hillary Rodham Clinton called the refugees’ stories “extremely disturbing,” saying they brought up images that hadn’t been seen in Europe since World War II.
“You feel almost like you’re intruding, but they want to tell you what it felt like when they lost their children,” Mrs. Clinton said.
NATO accuses the Yugoslav army and Serb special police of conducting a campaign of “ethnic cleansing” against Kosovo’s Albanian population.
Mrs. Clinton said the stories echoed images of the Nazi era, as depicted by films like “Schindler’s List” or “Sophie’s Choice.”
“Think about what that means — to be driving people from their homes, separating them from their families, loading them on trains,” she said.
I appreciate her stand. And I’m sure the 1.5 million Kosovar refugees do.
Yes, there were many more tragedies and suffering, a high loss of civilian casualties and all the terrible things that come with war. Milosevic thought nothing of deliberately placing civilians in buildings that NATO told him would be bombed.
Serbs suffered retaliation and revenge killings in the wake of liberation.
Yet considering the alternative, it is hard not to call it a success.
Perhaps that is why the bond between Hillary Clinton and Wes Clark runs deep. They were unable to affect the outcome of Rwanda, and it wasn’t for a lack of trying.
Less than ten years ago, the idea of Kosovo becoming a member of the EU, let alone a sovereign nation was relegated to the realm of the far fetched. It is now a nation.
The oldest ethos is the strong will do what they will and the weak will accept what it must. The Melian debate, as chronicled by Thucydides. (The Melians, despite being an ally of the Lacedaemonians - Sparta - was neutral in the Peloponnesian War.) The following is an excerpt from their debate.
Athenians
Well, then, we Athenians will use no fine words; we will not go out of our way to prove at length that we have a right to rule, because we overthrew the Persians; or that we attack you now because we are suffering any injury at your hands. We should not convince you if we did; nor must you expect to convince us by arguing that, although a colony of the Lacedaemonians, you have taken no part in their expeditions, or that you have never done us any wrong. But you and we should say what we really think, and aim only at what is possible, for we both alike know that in the discussion of human affairs the question of justice only enters where there is equal power to enforce it, and that the powerful exact what they can, and the weak grant what they must.
Melians
Well, then, since you set aside justice and invite us to speak of expediency, in our judgment it is certainly expedient that you should respect a principle which you know is for the common good; that to every man in peril a reasonable claim should be accounted a claim of right, and that any plea which he is disposed to urge, even if failing of the point a little, should help his cause. Your interest in this principle is quite as great as ours, inasmuch as you, if you fall, will incur the heaviest vengeance, and will be the most terrible example to mankind.
In the end, Melos was detroyed by Athens, the men killed and the women and children sold into slavery.
Kosovo did not suffer the same fate, only because of US and NATO intervention..
Update
In regards to the bombing of the RTS building and the killing of 16 people, the station director and Milosevic were warned in advance.
from Salon
His second documentary, “Ethnic Cleansing,” looks at the war-crimes trial of a Yugoslav accused of atrocities in neighboring Croatia. His latest, “The Anatomy of Pain,” released last spring, delves into the night 16 RTS employees were killed when NATO bombed the RTS building April 22, 1999. Soon after the bombing it emerged that the director of RTS, Dragan Milanovic, had ordered his staff to work their shift or lose their jobs, even though he knew it was going to be bombed, and had informed a personal friend of his to stay away that night. The film is as critical of the RTS and Serbian leadership as of NATO.
I wonder, though, how long it will take Kosovo to denigrate into another, to me, anyway, another Russian satellite nation, corrupt, a weigh station in the new style eastern European/middle east Russian block, Putin’s new style, new school soviet design.
Sure hope we have Wes Clark to address the issue.
Milosevic thought nothing of deliberately placing civilians in buildings that NATO told him would be bombed.
Really? This reads like a Hill& Knowlton script. Did you know that the KLA hired them?
Can I have some evidence.
I also have a family member is a Kosovar and supported the late Ibrahim Rugova.
His views of this are quite different.
Could you state those views, please, I’d be interested in reading another point of view?
It is a horrible thought, but governments DO bad things to their own citizens.
Not ethical or intelligent governments, only those fearful, terrified, of the wars and deaths they instigate.
I can’t imagine a winner bombing his own people, Lincoln wouldn’t have had the Union troops whacked at Gettysburg, war wasn’t a dissociated terror for him, as it is for others, it’s only that way for the deluded losers, who never think there will be consequence.
Cee -
You haven’t explained why your Kosovar family member supported the late Ibrahim Rugova.
Let me add this and say “NO MORE DEMOCRATIC GOOD WARS”
From the Balkans to the site of ancient Babylon, our interventionist policies have set us up for confrontations with groups and nations that seek to stem U.S. hegemony, principally Russia and Iran. We are, it seems, presently engaged in a two-front “civilizational” conflict: with the Slavic world, in central and eastern Europe, as well as in the rest of Russia’s “near abroad”; and with Sunni insurgents and Shi’ite Iranians, i.e., a good deal of the Islamic world.
How did we get to this point? The grand convergence of Left and Right interventionists during the Clinton years led directly to what Gen. William E. Odom has described as the biggest strategic disaster in American military history. As Jacob Heilbrunn puts it in They Knew They Were Right: The Rise of the Neocons:
http://www.antiwar.com/justin/?articleid=12378
Wow, are you familiar with Putin?
I was thinking Putin is ex-KGB, old intelligence officers tend to see things, I think, a little differently than a Dick Cheney, or a George Bush, men who never even fought, or risked, whose only experience with strategy extended to concocting plans to keeping themselves, and their cowardly asses, out of Vietnam, in Cheney’s case, this meant getting his wife pregnant.
(Can you imagine being that fearful, you would get your wife pregnant, to avoid Vietnam? It’s like using your kid as human shield, that’s disgusting.)
Anyway, since Putin already thinks like an intelligence officer, and a fairly bright one, how would he choose to reorganize the USSR, how would he remake it after the failure of the cold war, how would he come back with that broken USSR infrastructure, since it was his stated intent to game asymmetrically?
Would he think just like the neocons, like Dick Cheney, or would he come back with something superior, better, an improved method of cold war, a USSR, but a not USSR?
And how would the US defend itself?
Yeah, Clinton led to Bush.
Except for Clinton worked with NATO, as part of a coalition, with defined objectives, clear rules of engagement, and it was all paid for.
Not very similar at all for those direct reasons.
I agree.
But, what is the US position, today, as compared to 8 years ago?
Ostensibly, the poorer, because of Bush.
BUT, if Putin has now become the staid power, revealing his hand, now that the pieces are beginning to settle, ie “this is how I intend to reinvent a post cold war USSR,” the US is now the insurgent, of sorts.
But there are a different million angles, this is just one, IMO, like a Pavel Filonov abstract.
Albanians. grrrrr.
Well done Taters.
Thanks TeakWoodKite.
Hillary is playing along with Bush when she antagonizes Putin.
You want this experience?
February 17, 2008
Kosovo’s Declaration Will Have Consequences
Kosovo has declared independence and America will recognize it as a state. Consequently, Russia will eventually make us pay a high price in other aspects of our national security portfolio for this international sleight-of-hand.
What saddens me is that I have learned from a source close to the Kremlin that the Russians secretly suggested a road map and time table for Kosovo independence to the Bush administration. The Russians would never have been pleased with Kosovo going it alone — but there were things to manage Russian issues with Georgia, Serbia, Kosovo and the region that could have been simultaneously managed to keep both sides from undermining the other.
The Russians believe that their suggestions were ignored because the U.S. wanted to be able to declare a victory — which is harder to do when negotiating outcomes that are face-saving to both sides.
America and NATO will now be in less of a position to help Georgia and other former Eastern European states and the US may pay a price in its ability to forge a common position with Russia on Iran.
For some excellent commentary on these issues, read Dimitri Simes’ piece in Foreign Affairs titled “Losing Russia” as well as this exchange between Simes and Frank Wisner on Kosovo, and these comments from my colleague Anatol Lieven.
http://www.thewashingtonnote.com/
TATERS..
Nice to see another diary from you My friend..always Interesting Topics..and a Thoughtful Change of Subject..and focus on other historic Events ..in Ancient and historic Parts of the World..
I also suggest to other Commentators here..Where would All of Europe..England..The United states..the Middle east ..Africa..and even all of Asia be today without American Intervention in Europe
while fighting a War with Japan..
I am not Fond of “ISM’S” of any kind…They are Mostly run by Dictators and ultra Nationlists..
I consider Peace Keeping..a Good Tool for Preventing Genocide..The U.N. should do its part..
To many People are dying because of other peoples Greed and IDIOTOLOGY..
Thanks PH,
Much appreciated.
February 19, 2008
Kosovo Is Recognized by U.S., France and Britain
By STEPHEN CASTLE and GRAHAM BOWLEY
BRUSSELS — The United States formally joined France and Britain in recognizing the independence of Kosovo on Monday, a day after the breakaway province declared itself independent of Serbia.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/19/world/europe/19kosovo.html?ref=world
U.S. and EU powers recognize grateful Kosovo By Douglas Hamilton
1 hour, 2 minutes ago
Europe’s major powers and the United States said on Monday they were recognizing Kosovo, a day after it seceded from Serbia.
Serbian Prime Minister Vojislav Kostunica said the U.S. move showed the “true face” of its policy of force and ordered the immediate recall of Belgrade’s ambassador from Washington.
He said envoys would be recalled from other capitals that recognized Kosovo but did not mention by name Paris, which did so first after a European Union foreign ministers’ meeting in Brussels, nor London, Berlin and Rome who followed.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20080218/wl_nm/kosovo_serbia_dc_44
This is a great day in many ways, but there’s many items not connected within the supoport network to maximize the odds of long term and even immediate success.
Gen.Clark would have done quite well helping this as NSA or with State.
If Clinton is elected, this might still be a possibility.
I think Joe Biden is also very capable, and realistic in dealing with this type of issue, Bill Richardson, too.
Taters the KLA (Kosovo Liberation Army) did not have a very good reputation prior to the US….er, Clinton….jumping on that bandwagon.
I don’t dispute that Milosovitch was an outright crook and unscrupulous as they come, but why did the US really want him out. From memory, he prefered local industry than allowing US corporations rape and pillage the market.
Funny how prostitution and drug traffic went UP exponentially after the West “won”. Did the people ever get paid by the UN or was that all hot air after all?
Who’d have figured that? The UN promise to rebuild a country after a US patriotic war and it turns out they spent all the money elsewhere. I think Kosovo and Bosnia got some of the loot and prior to the galliant “freedom fighter” concept I am sure theie fighters were regarded as terrorists as they behaved as terrorists. But I guess that’s a mute point in these fascinating Al Qaeda times.
I disagree here Mr M. Clinton knew Albright was a dissaster area, uncompromising and guaranteed to start a war. Clinton also theatened to “go it alone” if necessary, but forgot all about Rwanda in his zeal. The UN can be a terribly convenient ally.
Clinton wrought indescribable descruction on the Iraqi people (far more than Bush). And all the media could do is come up with is a few choice patriotic lines around the “up with sanctions” and “down with Saddam” theme. The only difference between Bush and Clinton is Clinton is extremely intelligent and Bush is extremely dumb.
Other than that they are two peas in as pod. With daddy and Hil, that makes 4.
Actually, as I remember it, kosovo’s ethnic cleansing was comparable to what the Jews faced in the holocaust, PART of the rationale being “this must never happen again, if we (the US) can stop this, we should.” Sometimes, Americans do it for the humanity. Some people have a difficult time understanding, feel threatened, and are unable to counter, except with more violence. Nothing worse than a smart, brave (non-neocon) American, fighting for the peasant.
Is that an issue for your revisionist blather?
The rest of what you write is again another slow witted propaganda attempt, again, no critical thinking, you just take the loam and run, so, no need to comment, just some spongy Peppering Farm coconut cake offered, on your part.
And god help you if this is how you really think, boy, how can you even funciton?
…Pepperidge Farm coconut cake, food of the gods…
And there is/was no excuse for Rwanda, at that time handled by another Obama acolyte, Susan Rice.
The US should have found a way to stop the slaughter.
Stopping genocide is part and parcel of defense, btw, if my enemy is provoking genocide to create area destabilization, and this is, say, just an alternate way of playing dominoes, how will I counteract the threat, without causing more destruction, and becoming internecine?
And the great thing about Kennedy, about many American leaders, is understanding and protecting the value of human life, not apologizing for THAT belief, because ALL MEN ARE CREATED EQUAL.
That line doesn’t cross Mr. Putin’s desk.
Thinker,
I’ve been in a room with a Serb and a Croat, one was my friend, another an acquaintance. It was pretty icy, to say the least. I understand that feelings run deep in these matters.Atrocities were committed by several factions, facts bear that out.
However,I think the alternative of not intervening would have been absolutely disastrous. Do you deny the ethnic cleansing?
My father who was Irish, harbored a deep resentment at times bordering on hatred toward the English. It seemed to vanish a few years prior to his passing. (He was 46 when he died.) I could never really identify with it. Although I saw Michael Collins in a different light than the modern IRA. I thought the Harrod’s bombing was an atrocity and also the assasination of Mountbatten as such, I was young at the time. After all, the Beatles and the Rolling Stones were English.
And by the way, Bill Clinton did some great work in Northern Ireland.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/1065913.stm
I could never be so presumptious as to say to an Israeli or a Palestinian who has lost loved ones as to how they should feel. Sorrow and suffering know no borders, religions nor political persuasions.
While “containment” is seldom perfect, I disagree with your assessment that Clinton did more damage than Bush II to Iraq.
Simon,
Great points and well stated.
Mr. Murder,
I agree. Will they make it? I don’t know. I hope so.
Sadly, the fact remains - there may always be wars and if history is an indicator there always will be wars but perhaps we can at least avoid or minimize the really big ones. (To paraphrase Pat Lang)
And perhaps we are much more tribal than we acknowledge.
Me, too.
I never understood the glamorization of the IRA.
I remember as a child reading in our papers, the Chicago papers, of the English deaths, at the hands of terrorists, the pictures were horrible.
And they are terrorists, no different from Al Queda, to me.
Simon.
I don’t know if I can envision a Republic of Ireland without the IRA. There have been several incarnations. Have you ever read “Guests of a Nation” by Frank O’Connor? It’s my favorite short story.
There is a chilling story in Atlantic of two British agents that had penetrated the IRA in Northern Ireland, unbeknownst to each other. One was a leader and the other a captive who was tortured. Both were double agents that did what they had to do to hold on their covers.
During our Revolutionary War, we deliberately targeted officers which was supposedly prohibited by the European articles warfare at that time. I recall reading or seeing that George Washington was spared a shot by the British, when he was in their sights during a battle.
Not putting words in your mouth, and I’d like to hear your POV, but do you think civilized people blow up civilians?
It’s my touchstone, the minute they introduce themselves by MURDERING innocents, they’re ko0ks, no matter who they think they are…
I think all aggressive actions are a result of denial and an deeply flawed aberrant psychology, people not psychologically or intellectually talented enough to problem solve, without violence.
MLK, Jr did it, led a movement for independence, modern day, as did Gandhi, all without violence, both brilliant.
But I’m open to your opinion, please, if you have the time, I would like to hear your POV, as you’re Irish, what is your feeling about the IRA?
A simple, general, precedent for murder or torture that might have been incidental to a win doesn’t justify a status quo: “well, they did it too,”. Pretty shitty reasoning, IMO, for simple brutality.
Lincoln had deserters shot, I admire Lincoln, I would not have a deserter shot, you know, and Lincoln won that war.
Again, this is the 21st century, we’re supposed to be better, smarter, not romanticizing some idea of war, and manliness, those posers who murder are lonely women, reading romance novels, except for them, it’s the idea of themselves as the brave warrior, like big fat stupid cowardly Dick Cheney thinking himself the Che of America, Che Cheney, ah, if Dick only had a son.
I think of Ayers, and Obama, and the need to make oneself important through the use of the bomb, as opposed to the word, and it’s all about frustration, but also self glorification. And they cannot see how others see them, they think they are feared, they are tolerated, used, manipulated, scorned, ridiculed, and then dumped.
And you just don’t murder others because you’re a narcissistic infant, you don’t have that right, others have a right to stop you, protect themselves, because you’re just not that important, that special, you’re not smart, you know?
Well, that’s what I would tell a terrorist.
Thanks for letting me vent, taters, I get so frustrated reading about those idiots who murder civilians, simply to “send a message.”
At the risk of offending everyone:
I am shocked at the mindless parroting of Western propaganda by the -usually- critical thinkers!
First of all, and I know this is rather cynical, but if BU$H supports it, QUESTION IT!
Second, it may “FEEL GOOD” to think the matter is simple, black and white, good vs. evil, but guess what? IT’S NOT!!
Third, pleaaaase! Read Kosovo in Wikipedia, and “CLEANSE” -yourselves- of your ignorance.
Ethnic cleansing? Which one? The one by the Nazis in the 40’s which radically changed Kosovo’s demographics? (and yes, for you youngens, that is not -that- long ago, there are still people alive that remember a veeery different Kosovo, pre KLA, pre western interventions…)
Terrorism? What the hell do you think the KLA is? A US sponsored terrorist organization! Why are we supporting them?
What do we have to benefit?
The US is NO CHARITY people!! You know this!! Please ask yourselves, and read, and educate yourselves, IF you want to have an opinion, because it is NOT simple, and it isn’t all about helping a persecuted minority… Surprise!!
Just saying, I am very disappointed at how willing we are to imperialize with no context… This is not an ‘apology’ for Serbian atrocities, but a little context is screaming to be had in these masturbatory self-congratulations… And we wonder why they hate us…
———————————————————————————-
An Other Greek,
Thank you for your comments. Earlier I was reading about all of the resoures to be had in Kosovo.
All the happy talk should have waited
Bush and Hillary mouthing the same things
Serbs attack Kosovo border points as tensions mount
The United States has been an equally strong supporter of Kosovo’s independence and Bush Tuesday called it a historic move but acknowledged there are differences with Russia.
“History will prove this to be a correct move, to bring peace to the Balkans. This strategy has been a long time coming,” Bush told reporters in the Tanzanian capital Dar es Salaam.
“And now it is up to all of us to help the Kosovas to realise their peace,” he added.
The US president called on the Kosovars “to honour their commitment to support the right of non-Albanians, non-Kosovars inside their country.”
He added: “We have been working very closely with the Russians as we have with the Europeans and other nations on Kosovo’s independence because we believe it’s the right thing to do.
Bush said the independence declaration and US support for it “wasn’t a surprise to Russia.” “There is a disagreement, but we believe as do many other nations that history will prove this to be a correct move,” he added.
Serbia has withdrawn its ambassadors to the United States and other countries that recognised Kosovo’s independence.
Its anger has reached such a pitch that Serbia’s ambassador to Nigeria, Dragan Mraovic, likened Kosovo Prime Minister Hashim Thaci to Osama bin Laden in an open letter to a Nigerian newspaper which backed independence.
“One can trust in Thaci, who is very well known for his numerous terrorist acts, for which he was prosecuted in Serbia and sentenced to jail… in the same way Osama bin Laden should be trusted,” he wrote.
http://rawstory.com/news/afp/Serbs_attack_Kosovo_border_points_a_02192008.html
I would think the first step in degrading Kosovo would be destabilization.
My, so unpredictable, who could have seen THAT coming?
I wonder what Rice, and Bob Gates will do?
I wonder what Obama thinks of this situation…
Remember the Chezk uprising in 1968?
I don’t, but I’ve read about it, seen the films ( I was still quite small).
But when free, the chezks were able to mount a velvet revolution, the uprising was a step, just as I believe the Tiananmen Square uprising was also a step.
There will be more blood, I hope they badly want their freedom. Kennedy said you can’t instill freedom, the citizens of every country must want it, want to fight for it.
So we will see.
Thank you for the update, Cee.
Bush was opposed to intervening in Kosovo. He’s reaching for a legacy.
I don’t respect Bush’s views on world events.
Iraq and Afghanistan are disasters, if the US needd to make inroads, there, against Russia, and China, say, even in terms of oil, many other avenues could have been taken, other than the bomb.
Cheney and Rumsfeld strike me as a little dense, in that manner.
Who you gonna let call your wars, some stupid oil guys?
REAL SMART.
I don’t believe you’re offending anyone, An Other Greek. And I appreciate you taking the time to express your views.
What in your opinion was the alternative?
Once again, the ignorance and stupidity of the American nation and people knows no bounds. How many can even find Kosovo on the map, much less know anything about it except spin? Albania has won and will now have a more open avenue for its Islamic terrorism, smack trade and white slavery than ever. This time I suspect the West won’t be able to stop them at the Gates of Vienna. OBL is happy (If you like him you will LOVE the KLA) but I doubt the US or Europe will be once a new nacro/clepto/crooked state joins the EU.
Except this creates unintended destabilization, and can be used against those who would promote it.
They never think of that, it’s a form of criminal denial, or just outright stupidity.
The offenders just end up treading water, struggling not to drown.
Even Communist Russia only had, what, an 85 year life span?
If it is good for Kosovo, it is good for South Ossetia, good for Nakoro-Karabesh, good for Trans-Dniester, and probably even better for Vermont and Quebec and Texas. More smaller nations are good for everybody.
CK,
What was good for Kosovo wasn’t in the thoughts of the bombers.
Large Potential Albanian Oil and Gas Discovery Underscores Kosovo’s Importance -
Stephen Lendman
February 19, 2008
On January 10, Swiss-based Manas Petroleum Corporation broke the news. Gustavson Associates LLC’s Resource Evaluation identified large prospects of oil and gas reserves in Albania, close to Kosovo. They’re in areas called blocks A, B, C, D and E, encompassing about 780,000 acres along the northwest to southeast “trending (geological) fold belt of northwestern Albania.”
Assigned estimates of the find (so far unproved) are up to 2.987 billion barrels of oil and 3.014 trillion cubic feet of natural gas. However, because of their depth, oil deposits may be capped with a layer of gas. If so, Gustavson calculates the potential to be 1.4 billion barrels of light oil and up to 15 trillion cubic feet of natural gas. Further, if only gas is present, the discovery may be as much as 28 trillion cubic feet. In any case, if estimates prove out, it’s a sizable find.
In its statement, Gustavson reported: “The probability of success for a wildcat well in a structurally complex area such as this is relatively high (because) it is in a structurally favorable area (and) proven hydrocarbon source and analogous production exists only 20 to 30 kilometers away.”
Currently, the Balkans region has small proved oil reserves of about 345 million barrels, of which an estimated 198 million barrels are in Albania. Proved natural gas reserves are much larger at around 2.7 trillion cubic feet.
In December 2007, Albania’s Council of Ministers allowed DWM Petroleum, AG, a Manas subsidiary, to assist in the exploration, development and production of Albania’s oil and gas reserves in conjunction with the government’s Agency of Natural Resources.
This development further underscores Kosovo’s importance and the cost that’s meant for Serbia. Since the 1999 US-led NATO war, it’s been all downhill for the nation, the region and its people:
–Kosovo is part of Serbia; at least it was; since 1999 it’s been a Washington-NATO occupied colony stripped of its sovereignty in violation of international law;
– it’s been run by three successive US-installed puppet Prime Ministers with known ties to organized crime and drugs trafficking;
– it’s the home of one of America’s largest military bases in the world, Camp Bondsteel; the province/country is more a US military base than a legitimate political entity;
– its part of Washington’s regional strategic objective to control and transport Central Asia’s vast oil and gas reserves to selected markets, primarily in the West;
– on February 17 during a special parliamentary session, Kosovo unilaterally declared its independence; the action violates international law; Kosovo is as much part of Serbia as Illinois is one of America’s 50 states; to no surprise, Washington and dominant western countries support it; opposed are Serbia, Russia, Spain, Greece, Portugal, Slovakia, Malta, Bulgaria, Romania and Cyprus;
– might makes right; the issue is a fait accompli; the February 17 declaration ignores EU division pitting one-third of its 27 members in opposition; and
– unilateral western-supported independence mocks the 1999 UN Security Council Resolution 1244; it only permits Kosovo’s self-government as a Serbian province; the resolution recognizes the “sovereignty and territorial integrity of the Federal Republic of Yugoslavia;” only a new UN resolution in compliance with international law can change that legally; nonetheless, it happened anyway on another historic day of infamy when Washington again trashed international law and the rules and norms of civil society.
Stephen Lendman lives in Chicago and can be reached
at lendmanstephen@sbcglobal.net.
Oil, jesus christ, why they hell don’t they just market another energy?
Let those idiots fight it out, it’s not like the West doesn’t have the resources, the brains to do it…
You know, all those dictators, including the would have been Cheney, playing nuclear poker games with each other, over OIL.
Got brains?
Since this post has been updated my comments about “Operation Storm” have hit the dust bin. Google: Operation Storm + Bill Clinton. There was almost a total news black out on it at the time.
Justsomeone,
Are you talking about a comment on this thread being deleted?
I don’t recall doing that, heck I’m grateful for comments. And if I did, I apologize.
Justin Raimondo on the left? His reasons may have been similar to those of Chomsky but he is a libertarian and social conservative.
Another Greek, ah yes, a Greek would understand & know the region. I agree with you totally on “which ethnic cleansing?” Apparently no takers on my “Operation Storm” post above. The Clintons, Albright, Holbrook, & Christiane Amanpour, et al only showed the world the one they wanted it to see.
Taters, we’re cool.
So would you call his website right leaning? I know he supported Buchanan and ran for office in SF as a libertarian.
What do you think a far right rag like FrontPage would refer to him as?
They would call Mussolini a pinko. Shit, Raimondo even ran as a Republican against Pelosi in 96. Given her performance a small part of me wishes he had won.
Taters, well have you researched “Operation Storm” yet? If so, what do you think?
justsomeone,
Yes, there is much information to absorb, to say the least. I appreciate your pointing me there. And I’m sure you understand it’s worthty of more than a quick read. (At least for me, with my limitations, anyway.) Not to mention as in most nations, other than our own (And that’s not to discount the rich,indigenous history of a pre European America) there is considerable more time in terms of recorded history.
Hell, I’m still trying to wrap my head around the fact that France, Russia and England were able to ally themselves so quickly after the Napoleonic Wars with a Concert of Europe by uniting in staving off the Ottomans in the Greek War of Independence culminating with the Battle of Navarino.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Navarino
Then again, I see no Talleyrand at our disposal.
I digress. I am also anxiously looking forward to correspondence from a citizen of Croatia who will be weighing in on Kosovo here and be able to field questions from his unique viewpoint.
Btw, what is your take on the Melian Dialogue?
Taters, speaking of ole Pat Buchanan, he has a piece on Kosovo over at WorldNet Daily. Please, no grief on me checkin’ out that site, rarely do, however Cee referenced a IMF gold story they have posted, so I checked it out.
I’ll do the same, justsomeone. While I don’t subscribe to WND and I know who funded them, I don’t dismiss info. because of a source that I may have big differences with. The same with Pat Buchanan, although there have been times when I feel his Irish card should be taken from him. My last name is Murray.
Again, I believe intervention was the right thing to do in Kosovo, considering the alternative. I know it’s not a neat little package of right and wrong but in my opinion, very seldom is that the case.
Do you think the independence of the US could have succeeded without the intervention of France?
Pat Buchanan can actually offer some real insight into the motivations of others, a really good perspective on foreign events.
I find myself agreeing with him, at times, even though we are ideologically, politically, different as night and day.
I want the name of this senior Western offical IDOT!
‘Kosovo’s freedom is worth clash with Russia’
By Harry de Quetteville in Pristina
Last Updated: 12:13pm GMT 20/02/2008
Confrontation with Russia is a price worth paying for Kosovo’s independence, a senior Western official said yesterday.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2008/02/20/wkosovo120.xml
Do you think it’s not, what about the bigger picture?
I was reading, earlier, about the death of the Russian spy, in London, last year.
That was an incredibly bold move, by Putin, as has been implied, to me a significant push. That, and Russia’s actions in regard to the mafia, Iran, China and the consolidation of oil reserves. And the rhetoric is shifting, too.
How would you have read it?
We’re still operating according to the PNAC manifesto.
H/T Israel Matzav
Several hundred protesters threw stones and flares at riot police protecting the US Embassy in Belgrade today after Kosovo declaration of independence, witnesses said.
I’m add the following again. Those SOB’s are trying to start another war. Name the source of the quote and you have the party responsible for the US embassy attack today!
‘Kosovo’s freedom is worth clash with Russia’
By Harry de Quetteville in Pristina
Last Updated: 12:13pm GMT 20/02/2008
Confrontation with Russia is a price worth paying for Kosovo’s independence, a senior Western official said yesterday.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2008/02/20/wkosovo120.xml
It’s so hard, though, to determine who wants what, WHY they would start a war, and how they intend to reach their goal.
An America involved in ANOTHER armed operation is a stupid America, ultimately, though, WHY do they want Kosovo destabilized?
Destabilization plays more to Russia, despite public protestations to the contrary, and the PNAC is as stupid and deluded as Rummy, couldn’t win a game of Shoots N Ladders against a three year old, much less chess against Putin.
Things though, seem kinda strange between England and Russia.
From the AP:
KOSOVSKA MITROVICA, Kosovo - U.N. police are firing tear gas at 5,000 Serb demonstrators trying to cross a key bridge in the ethnically divided city of Kosovoska Mitrovica.
Police fired the canisters Friday afternoon in an attempt to keep the protesters off the bridge separating the Serb and ethnic Albanian sides of the city — a flashpoint of tensions in Kosovo’s restive north.
The demonstrators waved Serbian flags and chanted “Kosovo is ours!” on their fifth day of protests since Kosovo’s ethnic Albanian leaders declared independence from Serbia on Sunday.
THIS IS A BREAKING NEWS UPDATE. Check back soon for further information. AP’s earlier story is below.
BELGRADE, Serbia (AP) — Serbia’s prime minister appealed for calm on Friday as the European Union sharply condemned overnight rioting in Belgrade during which the U.S. embassy was stormed and other Western missions were damaged.
Serbian police said that one person died and more than 150 people were injured in the violence, which erupted after a state-sponsored rally to protest Kosovo’s declaration of independence from Serbia on Sunday. Nearly 200 people were arrested and 90 shops ransacked, police said in a statement.
The unrest was the first major outburst of anti-Western sentiment in Serbia since former strongman Slobodan Milosevic was ousted in 2000 and replaced by a reformist government.
It exposed a deep rift within the country’s shaky coalition government, raising fears that nationalist anger over Kosovo was strengthening the hard-liners who want to move Serbia away from the European Union and closer to its traditional ally Russia.
The United States and EU heavyweights Britain, France and Germany have formally recognized Kosovo.
The morning after angry mobs stormed the city, Belgrade streets were cleared of debris during the morning rush-hour traffic.
On Thursday night, rioters broke into the U.S. mission and set fire to offices and to police guardhouses on the sidewalk in front of the building. The nearby Croatian embassy was also attacked, and a residential building next door was damaged by flames.
Firefighters extinguished the blazes and found a charred body inside the U.S. mission’s consular section. An autopsy on the body was being conducted Friday in Belgrade’s military hospital, officials said.
Riot police clashed with looters on Thursday in the capital’s downtown following the demonstration against Kosovo’s independence in which nearly 200,000 people took part.
The European Union warned Serbia on Friday that the attacks risked harming efforts to bring the Balkan nation closer to the EU. The German government also warned the rioting could effect negatively Serbia’s cooperation with the EU.
“These acts of violence lead nowhere and they cannot help anybody,” said EU foreign policy chief Javier Solana. He told reporters that negotiations on an agreement designed to prepare Serbia for eventual EU membership would have to wait until things “calm down.”
The White House also strongly criticized the Serbian government, saying the U.S. Embassy in Belgrade “was attacked by thugs” and Serb police did not do enough to stop it. In a conference call with reporters from Air Force One, presidential spokeswoman Dana Perino said the United States had expressed its “concern and displeasure” to the Serbian government.
Pro-Western politicians in Serbia accused hard-line nationalists in the government of Prime Minister Vojislav Kostunica of inciting the violence in order to demonstrate Serbia’s anger at Kosovo’s independence.
In Kosovo, the Prime Minister, Hashim Thaci said the violence in the streets of Belgrade was reminiscent of the Milosevic era and his brutal crackdown against the province’s ethnic Albanian rebels, which triggered NATO’s bombing of Serbia in 1999.
Some Belgrade analysts said the nationalists were seeking to fuel anti-Western anger in order to sideline pro-European Union reformists led by the President Boris Tadic.
Tadic’s and Kostunica’s parties are united in a coalition government that has ruled Serbia since mid-2007.
But the two differ sharply on how to handle Kosovo’s independence, with Tadic saying Belgrade must press on with efforts to join the EU regardless of Kosovo, and Kostunica seeking to drop the bid because most EU countries plan to recognize the province’s independence.
In a statement Friday, Kostunica appealed for the end of violence.
“This directly damages our … national interests. All those who support the fake state of Kosovo are rejoicing at the sight of violence in Belgrade,” he said, but made no mention of the damaged embassies.
Police said that in addition to the U.S. and Croatian embassies, the missions of Turkey, Bosnia, Belgium and Canada were also targeted.
Defense Minister Dragan Sutanovac of Tadic’s EU-oriented Democratic Party said rioters were energized by the backing of some nationalist politicians for smaller attacks earlier in the week against Western embassies and commercial interests.
The pro-Western Liberal Democratic Party leader, Cedomir Jovanovic, warned the rioting was a prelude for a crackdown against government critics and pro-Western liberals.
“An atmosphere of lynch has been created,” added political analyst Ljubodrag Stojadinovic.
Belgrade’s medical emergency center said some 150 people — one third of them policemen — had been treated mostly for light injuries sustained during the night. There were more than 100 arrests, police said.
On Friday, a McDonald’s restaurant in the city center was still smoldering from the fire that torched much of the interior. Shops put up plastic sheeting and glass panels to cover their smashed front windows. Several sports goods stores and other shops had been cleaned out by looters leaving display windows completely bare.
Kosovo, which is 90 percent ethnic Albanian, has not been under Belgrade’s control since 1999, when NATO launched airstrikes to halt a Serbian crackdown on ethnic Albanian separatists. A U.N. mission has governed Kosovo since.
America’s Kosovo Quandary
When television showed the burning American Embassy in Belgrade and crawling APCs (carrying Serbian policemen who had no desire to disperse Serbs with Molotov’s cocktails), I wondered how soon will the Americans recall international law and the Vienna Convention, which safeguards the immunity of diplomats and embassies? They were very quick.
But an appeal by Under Secretary of State Nicholas Burns to the Serbs to respect international law sounded somewhat ridiculous. What is he talking about? He and his colleagues violated it themselves last Monday by recognizing Kosovo’s independence.
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It is strange to hear words of indignation when the situation developed exactly the way he wanted it to. Okay, let’s agree that Kosovo is a unique case. The burning of the embassy is a unique reply to Kosovo’s unique independence. There is no need to draw any parallels or get worried. This exception will not spread to other parts of the world - other embassies cannot be burned, and this case is truly unique.
Let’s repeat this idea once again. Having taken part in the annexation of part of a sovereign state, the United States is angry that someone wanted to occupy or even burn down part of its own territory - the embassy. The Department of State has justifiably appealed to the Vienna Convention on Diplomatic Relations. But what about the UN Charter, which guarantees territorial integrity of sovereign states? Having recognized Kosovo’s independence, Washington has openly violated Serbia’s sovereignty and territorial integrity. So, why is it angry at a Serbian student who did a similar thing to the U.S. Embassy? Every action has an equal and opposite reaction.
It was unpleasant and humiliating for the Americans to watch on TV how Serbs were setting fire to their stars and stripes, and raising a red, blue and white tricolor instead. But few of them saw how Orthodox churches were burning in Kosovo, cupolas with crosses detonated, and clergymen exposed to derision. CNN does not often remind its audience of Albanian atrocities.
It was interesting to watch journalists changing the tune in their coverage of events in Belgrade. First, they mentioned a thousands-strong crowd that somehow turned into a few nationalists, although it was the same crowd. The Americans hate to admit that they were wrong - nobody does, for that matter. But few have taken so many undemocratic and illegal actions in world policy as they have. In the U.S., those guilty of such actions may face life imprisonment, if not a lethal injection, electrocution or gas chamber (how can democracy be preached by a country where 35 states allow capital punishment by such revolting methods?). Erosion of international law started with Serbia - the bombing of Belgrade in 1999. Iraq followed.
In terms of criminal law, these global actions qualify as robbery and murder. In Arkansas and Texas, these crimes are punishable by death penalty. These are home states of the last two presidents that started wars in Yugoslavia and Iraq in violation of international law. But at home, U.S. presidents do not behave like this - they are decent gentlemen playing the sax and riding a bike. But once they go outside, everyone had better scatter.
The last two presidents liked to talk about the U.S. mission before the start of a war: “The United States is called upon to guarantee…”. Depending on the situation, they would continue with such phrases as “Kosovo’s freedom,” “peace and prosperity,” or “democracy all over the world.” None of them has specified who imbued the United States with this mission and what rights they had for that.
But these are details that ordinary Americans should not go into until someone in their family is killed in action. For the time being, Americans are not dying in Kosovo like they do in Iraq; and for this reason they don’t ask who has urged America to help the Kosovars and whether the Kosovars had the right to do so.
Receiving reports from Belgrade, U.S. diplomat Burns appealed for help to the Serbian authorities but they could do nothing. They failed to protect the territorial integrity of both their country and the U.S. Embassy.
But the Serbian government is not guilty of unrest in Belgrade. It has lost legitimacy, having failed to preserve its territory. In this situation, it is disgraceful to scatter indignant compatriots, but they had to for fear of being brought to The Hague. This is not a good prospect for President Boris Tadic, who talked about European prospects for Serbia, or for Foreign Minister Vuk Jeremic, a graduate of Cambridge and Harvard. They are not ready for any responsibility.
Responsibility for the humiliated stars and stripes rests with American diplomats and officials - Burns, Condoleezza Rice, Richard Holbrooke, Zalmay Khalilzad, George W. Bush, Bill Clinton, and Madeleine Albright - all those who have created this unique case and have not yet realized how unique it really is.
By Dmitry Gornostayev
Jeezus fing christ, do they all go to the same school of fucked up logic and enraged propaganda?
So glad to know the Russian journalists are just as stupid as their American counterparts.