UPDATED: The Candyman vs. The Commander-In-Chief Debate (LIVE Thread)
By NoQuarter on February 21, 2008 at 7:51 PM in Barack Obama, Hillary Clinton
UPDATE: Here’s Hillary’s opening statement (yes, it’s already up on YouTube!) — e-mail it to everyone you know, along with the now-viral “Bamboozled” video that someone told me is about “Obama X” (that’s naughty) — and other videos below in our recent stories. (HILLARY! “Change you can Xerox!” That’s the line of the night! See “Bamboozled” — even U.S. News & World Report is coming up with its own new videos of Obama stealing other lines from his campaign manager David Axelrod’s other clients — Axelrod must Xerox all those lines for all of his clients! Does he charge a unique fee for such repetition???!!!! If I’m paying HIS hefty fees, I’d demand new lines!)
ORIGINAL: HERE’S YOUR LIVE DEBATE THREAD. The debate starts at 8 p.m. ET on CNN. Share your observations — and whatever you pick up (LOOK for the slip-ups) — right here!
“Is Obama’s media affair ending?,” AFP/Yahoo:
WASHINGTON (AFP) - Barack Obama, the wunderkind of US politics, has long basked in adulatory press coverage for his historic White House bid — but a media backlash appears to be building.
“But as it gets closer to the nomination, there is going to be more scrutiny of him. Reporters are going to examine his statements, his votes and his background,” [Darrell West, a political scientist and media expert at Brown University] told AFP.
Some Obama supporters fret already that his campaign has the trappings of a messianic cult, as thousands upon thousands pack auditoriums to bask in his uplifting oratory.
“Obamaphilia has gotten creepy,” Los Angeles Times columnist Joel Stein wrote. “The best we Obamaphiles can do is to refrain from embarrassing ourselves.”
[...]
In an article headlined “The Obama Delusion,” Washington Post columnist Robert Samuelson said the senator “seems to have hypnotized much of the media and the public with his eloquence and the symbolism of his life story.”
“The result is a mass delusion that Obama is forthrightly engaging the nation’s major problems when, so far, he isn’t.”
What do you want CNN to ask the two?
So far, they’re covering a lot of my choices…
I thought McMondukakis was fairly gracious in Hillary, but the guy really has a hard time spitting the words out of mouth. Maybe someone should get him a teleprompter.
Her opening statement was much smoother. He sounds really hesitant at times.
What I want CNN to clarify is Obama’s relationship with the Rezko.
Could we be that lucky?
The MSM when in attack mode; executing multiple target packages is still a ways off.
“Washington is a place where good ideas go to die” Barak Obama
Then why do you want to go there Barak?
“step back from SOME of the unilateralism” Okayy, What part of the shredded Constitution would you keep.
take the extra step…(of the plank?)
Q:Specific differences between you and Sen. Clinton.,
please Obama answer the question!
Please? My vote for the Surpreme Court is on the line.
fairness and balance….?ORielly???
Green economy? sorry Obama that Hillary’s gig oops
Hey Sen. Obama what kinda stopwatch you got? Has anyone told you in an interview keep it crisp?
How dare he mention the loss of union jobs in Ohio? Look what he did to a union in his OWN state of Illinois — and this is a video you MUST see:
Machinists’ Union TELLS It Like It Is [UPDATED]
Obama is just blathering bullet points- “I’m for green energy and change and fixing the economy and change and changes that need to come about through a working coalition for change special interests and lobbyists in Washington are bad we need change blah blah blah…” what a fricking joke.
McMondukasis is trying to unify the party. A day late and a dollar short as far as I am concerned. I would hold my nose to vote for him in November, but I would work to make the House bluer, and that would be my entire focus.
Hillary’s on fire! You, go, girl!
I’m on a 10-minute delay on my DVR — and am still on Cuba — but she is SO poised and so articulate. So presidential.
Go, Hillary,go!
Chelsea!
HILLARY turned it to the Bush administration. Now Barack is picking that up.
at the risk of sounding all “girly”…I could see the pride in Chelsea’s face
You betcha. I’m proud too! And that Chelsea — she’s a brain like her mom. Search the blog here, and there’s a wonderful article about how much SHE knows about all the issues. Extremely impressive.
McMondukakis must have a board in his back. I have never seen anyone sit up so straight. Like a six-year-old boy in first grade trying to impress the teacher.
Smart Girl >>Love that Hillary..!!
Knows All the Issues Is hitting at the Bush Failures(Cheers and applause) and shows she has Plans and is Prrepared..Obama often repeats what she says..
She is the Party Leader..!! Go Girl..
I might be prejudiced, but I think she is doing much better than O. Better audience response too.
Yes … i hear that too. She is resonating with people.
It must be something else to really be there.
“End George Bush’s war on science!”
That really got applause!
How about this line? As one of the millions in this country without insurance this one really resonated.
Mike, That’s pretty clever. I mean, McMondukakis. Where did you get it?
I fear that he can see through time.
DCDemocrat: I made it up. I really am afraid the guy would lose big time if he got the nomination.
“I really am afraid the guy would lose big time if he got the nomination.”
No shit, Sherlock.
Easy pickin’s. the GOP can get him on national security alone. They can run some 527s showing Bin Laden, etc. and they’ll have the average voter scared shitless of voting for him. (Yeah, many of us are jaded about the GWOT, but a LOT of folks are not. My aunt in Florida talks about it to me ALL the time.)
Pat yourself on the back and have a Molson on me!
Do you notice how McMondukakis takes notes all the time while she is speaking. He writes and writes and writes and writes. When he speaks, though, he never, ever looks at his notes. I think he is afraid of emoting inappropriately when she is speaking.
He’s a lefty too. LARRY! Obama is a lefty! (I’m laughing.)
(I’m a lefty too but that won’t make me vote for him. It’s the hope that’s got me goin’. I got converted last night.)
SUSAN!!!! You’re a lefty too?! No wonder we get along!!!
Our brains kinda work differently, don’t they. Did your teachers try to make you write right-handed? (Hey, I was once denied employment — in high school, at a cannery — because all the machines were made for right-handed people. I tell ya.)
The nuns did that to my father, as the left hand was the hand of the devil.
So, he became a righty.
My sister, though, also a lefty, was left unfettered.
I’m a lefty too so I have finally found something I have in common with Obama. Wait, there is one other thing, I a windbag too.
that’s supposed to be “I’m a windbag too”. Must have been thinking right-handed.
Is it my imagination, or does Obama look all pissy whenever Hillary scores a point?
Yes. He’s very arrogant.
I love that “smart way to protect our borders and a dumb way to protect our borders.”
God she is good. Cut off the University at Gainesville?
Oh yes — those stupid fucking passports to go to Canada — I live on the border, and it is nuts.
Immigration: Obama says he worked on immigration in the senate. You ought to hear McCain on how Obama SCREWED HIM on immigration — promised him to his face that he’d work with McCain, and then stabbed him in the back. McCain does not like Obama. Does not respect him. He respects Hillary Clinton.
(Agree with McCain or not, but he and Obama had a deal, and Obama broke it.)
I am sure that given the chance McCain will lets all know about it. Not so with Hillary.
Thank you, Mike Myer! Bang on!
RIGHT ON!
Hey, Mike Meyer: I mentioned to someone your innovation on Obama’s name. She recommended you amend it to, “McMondukakerry.”
He has a Pretty good Memory..for other Peoples Material…Would Have been a good Actor..Probably whe the hollywood types like Him.. But in Thier world everything is scripted and a Fantasy..with Directors and Writers..and PRODUCERS..
We see what those actors Really are in REAL LIFE..
Yep…He takes Notes on Hillarys applause Lines…He will repeat them later..
Hillary can Talk from the Heart and Experience all night long…without Reading a thing..
You’re so correct, Patrick. Dustin Hoffman could have created Obama / a la “Wag The Dog” (that movie cracks me up so much)
One more…sorry…: He doesn’t look at the moderators when they’re speaking. Rude.
You are right! He just takes notes, and never glances up. That wouldn’t look good in a general debate.
I don’t really think he’s taking notes…looks like making spirals. I noticed he did this at one of the last debates.
It doesn’t look good now!
Maybe he’s got a photo of Hillary and he is drawing horns on her — just sayin’ some people are a little arrogant and condescending.
If he’s illustrating, he’s probably tracing.
This has got to be my favorite comment thus far!
Bummer thoughts at myDD from Todd Beeton who I usually like to read:
Update [2008-2-21 20:32:12 by Todd Beeton]:Barack Obama is wisely raising the spectre of lobbyists and special interests at every opportunity. If he is the nominee, that will clearly be the focus of his campaign against Senator McCain, exploiting his “friendship” with Vicki Iseman whether it was romantic or not.
Update [2008-2-21 20:52:18 by Todd Beeton]:Obama is doing a good job of elaborating on differences between them even where their central position may be quite similar. Clinton is showing no signs of trying to force an error that she really needs him to make. I don’t think it’s enough for her to simply “beat” him, which she isn’t even necessarily doing at this point, because the format of this debate is really advantageous to Obama. A. it allows him to be verbose, which was always his problem in the early debates; and b. whenever Obama offers specifics on issues and is conversant on Clinton’s level on an issue, he exceeds people’s expectations. So, the question is will she go in for the kill?
http://www.mydd.com/story/2008/2/21/20039/8125
DO YOU AGREE? DOES SHE NEED TO — and SHOULD SHE — go “in for the kill”?
Is “allowing” him to be verbose a mistake? Verbose to some is “windbag” to others. Maybe allowing him to ramble on is not a mistake but a tactic?
If you’re candidacy is about words, it should be about your own words. Change we can Xerox.
She’s so funny.
McMondukakerry: Change we can Xerox!
That’s priceless, DCDem.
Oh hee, that was funny.
Health care: “This is very personal for me.” I love Hillary.
And she really means it too.
“Sen. Obama says it’s a philosophical difference. I say it is a substantive difference.”
QUOTING JOHN EDWARDS: “It’s as if Social Security were voluntary.”
SEE Obama economic advisers: His Social Security adviser is PRO-PRIVATIZATION.
His whining about mandates is utter bullshit. EVERY health care expert / economist worth his/her salt says you have to have mandates in order to make the ENTIRE plan affordable. Think about it. it makes sense!
Jesus, Obama is still trying to coast on the fact that he wasn’t in the Senate when it came time to vote on Authorizing the use of force in Iraq. But first, he panders to Our Boys out of Fort Hood. What a fucking poser.
Correct me if I’m wrong, but didn’t he run away from Feingold’s censure resolution? (Which may not have been the best route, but with impeachment looking unlikely…it was something.)
Obama totally sucks without a teleprompter, he’s reduced to a totally mediocre speaker. So even that part of his image is TOTALLY PHONY.
And the crowd is so obviously stacked with Obama supporters, this is a total scam of a debate.
Great points, John. It’s Kool-Aid. … they’re not thinking about who can do the job.
It *was* at a university.
McMondukakerry will do whatever is necessary to protect America (including, you will remember, bombing an ally with nuclear weapons.)
What a man! A man’s man.
I’m swooning. (I guess I’ve come to Obama.)
Hillary Just Missed an Opportunity to go in for the kill..She was asked about Obama being qualified to be Commander in Chief..
She didn’t because she didn’t want to make him look bad and give McCain something he could use later..
Obama would have gone in for Kill..If asked the same question..but spent 15 minutes patting himself on the back..and when for the Cheer lines…
Patting himself on the back is what Obama does best, clearly. Of course, when his arm gets tired, this “fair and balanced” crowd picks up the slack for him.
I very rarely do this, but this made me lol…it’s from a poster a huffpobama:
(Something to read during ad breaks?)
“There is a serious problem in the Obama campaign. There is a drastic shortage of Obamabunto translators. Obamabunto, of course, is the native language of the Obamas. And while Obamabunto sounds very similar to English, it actually has VERY different meanings.
For example, Mrs. Obama recently said that “for the first time in my life, I am really proud to be an American.” Now, of course, in normal ENGLISH, this would seem to indicate that Mrs. Obama has been ASHAMED to be an American her entire life.
However, in OBAMABUNTO, the phrase “For the first time in my life”, has an entirely DIFFERENT meaning! In Obamabunto, the phrase “For the first time in my life” translates roughly into the word “Achooo”. Or, in some cases, “burp”.
In other words, after translating to Obamabunto, Mrs. Obama’s statement has AN ENTIRELY DIFFERENT MEANING!!! What Mrs. Obama REALLY said was “Achooo. I am really proud to be an American.” Which, of course, is VERY patriotic, as SHE is very patriotic and always proud to be an American. However, you might think otherwise is you do not speak Obamabunto.
Obama had a similar problem with the word “plagiarism”. In Obama’s native ObamabuntoLand, political leaders FREQUENTLY copy ENTIRE speeches from other political leaders. Yes, MANY leaders in ObamabuntoLand have given the ML King “I have a dream” speech, and of course, claimed it as their own! Many of the natives in ObamabuntoLand have never heard the speech before.
In FACT, in Obamabunto, there is no word for “plagiarism”.
So you can certainly see that there is a dire need for Obamabunto translators in the Obama campaign. It is likely that MANY mis-understandings of this nature will arise, simply because Obamabunto sounds so similar to English, but yet has entirely different meanings.
Care must be taken to ALWAYS consult an Obamabunto translator before assuming that an Obama has said or done something wrong. Because, of course, the Obamas are PERFECT, and NEVER say or do anything wrong. THOUSANDS of Obama supporters will swear to that, and how could they be wrong? ”
posted by JackWOrf
John:
My theory is that, lie George W. Bush, McMondukakerry has a fragile ego, and he’s running for president to be a big man.
I agree. God, anyone who’d write so much about himself — especially when he’s still so young — is a little obsessed with ME ME ME and his history. (And, of note, those books aren’t exactly factual.)
SEE:
Obama’s Books: Composite Characters, False Memories
Exactly my thoughts.
And, how so sketchy on the Columbian years?
oops…. *why
VERY sketchy. I read a NYT article about his mysterious years at Columbia…. he won’t talk about it, doesn’t write about it. Can’t remember the names of any friends. Doesn’t talk about the financial consulting job he had. Very strange. (I bet the GOP will find out though — bet they’re damn curious.)
The intel teams from the RNC have been and gone…several months ago at least.
Heh. I bet they have.
Thats How any good preacher Works the Crowd..CAN..you give me an “AMEN”…while I wipe the Sweat off my Brow..
Hillary Clinton says something substantive and gets mild applause. Barack Obama clears his fricking throat and repeats fluffy crud we’ve heard a million times before and gets much louder applause. Christ.
I hear it differently. I hear great applause for her.
I LOVE her response re her crises: Now she’s talking about OTHER people’s crises.. very moving.
The audacity of hype!
Barack Obama’s greatest challenge he had to overcome was his entire life. Because NO ONE has EVER overcome the kind of obstacles set in front of Barack Obama. Fortunately for the future of the Human Race, Barack Obama overcame these obstacles to stand here today ready to save us from ourselves.
Jesus, that answer was the biggest frigging valentine any candidate has ever given to himself. “I came off the streets as a neighborhood organizer, I turned down high-paying jobs, I am the most awesome person on the planet, I am the person I have been waiting for and I’m definitely the person Michelle Obama has been waiting for, for the first time in her adult life she feels she has a chance to be first lady, and that makes her proud to be an American.”
And SHE reaches out and shakes his hand. She has such class.
And can you believe that he never calls her when she wins a primary race? But she always calls him.
Now she’s getting a standing O! (for OVATION)
::applause::
Have you noticed that his voice gets louder when he is slipping? ie if I can’t win with intellect I will win with volume. Domestically familiar somehow…
I turned down high-paying jobs,
This is where it gets odd for me. Barak turns down a possible future to clerk with a supreme….
Hillary’s closing statement kicks ass.
It’s so beautiful, I have tears in my eyes.
Must.get.video.now.
“How do I love myself. Let me count the ways.”
Sad.
And Obama is pissed…. He knows he didn’t score at the end, and that she had such total CLASS and GRACE and KINDNESS and THOUGHTS ABOUT OTHER PEOPLE NOT HERSELF.
Hillary swept in and won the debate with that closing statement- after seemingly having to answer every question first, she gets to go last and blasts Obama out of the water with her signoff. Fantastic.
Extraordinary.
To rise to SUCH a moment. To have the grace and presence of mind to be so rich in her words and expression of her wonderful motives.
She knocked it out of the park … but he was all about himself, I’m sorry to say. (FRANKLY, I am so TOUCHED by what she said that it’s hard to express criticism of him.)
Wow….What a Finish for Hillary..She is so Gracious..and Sincere..Yes…She has been tested..I think things she has endured..with so much Class..and perserverance…What a Lady..!!
Experienced …Tested..Tempered..Trust Worthy..and the Most Qualified to be President and Commander in Chief..
Now it’s up to the people of Texas and Ohio. Then Pennsylvania.
The campaign needs ALL OF YOU to help! You can make phone calls. You can travel to Texas and Ohio. You can write LTEs. You can post comments on ALL the political blogs — even in unfriendly territory. You can speak UP for your passionate and highly rational support for Sen. Clinton. AND GIVE HER MONEY! So she can put ADS ON TV, and get more grassroots people.
http://www.hillaryclinton.com
Change you can believe in? I want change I can count on.
Well, I will be making a donation to Clinton, tomorrow.
Susan: I thought she hit the ball out of the park at the end.
It was her best moment ever. It is one for the ages.
Surely the video will be up soon. I’ve DVR’d it, but I want to post it for all to see, over and over.
And she got the standing ovation at the end. Not he.
Unfortunately, I can’t figure out how Hillary could go negative. I think she might be aware of this dilemma because she avoided the “is he qualified to be CIC” question.
She’s really trapped in our culture of sexism. She can’t go negative or she looses her appeal, gets labeled evil, shrill, etc. Also, if she comes on too nasty it reinforces Obama’s “we need to change politics as usual” message.
It’s just an ugly situation for her. But she is one amazing candidate, definitely commander in chief material. The fact that she can keep rising in spite of all the obstacles thrown at her is remarkable. She’s certainly earned my respect.
Did he say… ” workin’ ” ?
FTR, I don’t have a dog in this…I’m Canadian (hence my name), so I’m just keepin’ an eye on things…popcorn in hand. I also started out lovin’ O and neutral on H. So, I did what every good American would do…research. I don’t like Obama, even though I wanted to.
GO HILLARY!
(btw, I’m a huffpo refugee)
PS They should outlaw punidtry opinions on debates.
And a hearty welcome to you, HuffPo refugee! We have many refugees here — also from DailyKos aka DailyObama, TPM (very sad what it’s become), and more.
Thank god there are still some straight shooter blogs out there. TalkLeft is great. So is MyDD a lot of the time.
I was beginning to think it was me.
Thx for the welcome. I’ll try to behave. heh
I’ve crabbed a bit here already about witnessing the stunning shift from defending the Clintons to making them out to be monsters, and the kneejerk accusations of racism. I can’t really say any more about it at the moment as I’ll not be able to stop myself. “Scan”(?) summed it up…
It is weird.
I heard some rave reviews for Obama, who I thought did PISS POORLY. But, not even the pundits can spin that final moment into anything negative!