I disagree with your post. I am, in fact, GLAD that Obama attended that church and listened to Rev. Wright. Not because I love to hear someone say “God damn America.” But because I love to hear someone care enough about America to care about the wrongs America does, to not accept slapping a happy flag of approval over lethal poison, and to challenge America to face up and do better.

This wasn’t a civics class, this was a church service. The standard wasn’t political, it was Christian. How Christian — or American — is it to drop bombs on innocents and not care and then say God bless America afterwards? To enslave and then diss descendants of slaves, sending generations to jail? I’m glad someone is challenging us to be our brother’s keeper.

Lastly, what a shock to find out Barack has been listening to this…this…this… whatever! for what, 20 years!?! Who knew? Why, if he ever earned a public position, racist separatist hate would spew forth, and he would lead us down filthy paths, yes?

NO.

We already know how this turned out! It was Rev. Wright’s phrase “the audacity of hope” that inspired Obama’s 2004 Democratic convention speech of the same name:

It’s not enough for just some of us to prosper — for alongside our famous individualism, there’s another ingredient in the American saga, a belief that we’re all connected as one people. If there is a child on the south side of Chicago who can’t read, that matters to me, even if it’s not my child. If there is a senior citizen somewhere who can’t pay for their prescription drugs, and having to choose between medicine and the rent, that makes my life poorer, even if it’s not my grandparent. If there’s an Arab American family being rounded up without benefit of an attorney or due process, that threatens my civil liberties.

It is that fundamental belief — It is that fundamental belief: I am my brother’s keeper, I am my sister’s keeper — that makes this country work. It’s what allows us to pursue our individual dreams and yet still come together as one American family.

http://www.americanrhetoric.com/speeches/convention2004/barackobama2004dnc.htm

Watch the speech. It’s a love letter to America. Look at the faces. They’re all different and they all love America. The line about the civil liberties of Arab Americans got perhaps the loudest applause of all.

God bless everybody. Everywhere.

I must admit that I was relieved to see Christine Gregoire ultimately prevail in the last election since Dino Rossi is a little too right of center to suit me, but Gregoire was NOT my preference among the field of Democrats. I liked Deborah Senn because I still remember how she drove unscrupulous insurance companies out of the state and became a true advocate for consumers when she was insurance commissioner. For what it’s worth, I still have a few friends in Seattle so I know that you are right about Gregoire. If the Democratic nominee for president is not a strong candidate, you guys may just get stuck with Rossi–an unpleasant thought, if you ask me.

BTW, do you remember when Jay Inslee defeated Rick White in 1998 with his campaign consisting primarily of opposition to impeaching Bill Clinton? It was an interesting moment in that district since that is one district that has a sizable proportion of “moderate-to-liberal Republicans” (many of whom went to my church) who completely rejected the notion of impeaching a president over lying about a private, consensual sexual matter. Rick White was actually not that bad a representative, but he was a casualty of the GOP’s overreaching in the Lewinsky affair. At the time, I was so disgusted with the Republicans over Ken Starr’s “witch hunt” that I was ready to see ALL the Republicans go so I did not shed any tears for Rick White. Nevertheless, Rick White was a victim of the GOP in the same way that Linc Chafee became a casualty of belonging to the GOP in 2006. Chafee was actually a good senator with probably the most liberal voting record of any Republican in the senate, but with an “R” after his name and all the damage that Bush had caused, Chafee had to go.

“This Fourth of July is yours, not mine. You may rejoice, I must mourn…your celebration is a sham; your boasted liberty, an unholy license; your national greatness, swelling vanity; your sound of rejoicing are empty and heartless; your denunciation of tyrants brass fronted impudence; your shout of liberty and equality, hollow mockery; your prayers and hymns, your sermons and thanks-givings, with all your religious parade and solemnity, are to him, mere bombast, fraud, deception, impiety, and hypocrisy — a thin veil to cover up crimes which would disgrace a nation of savages. There is not a nation on the earth guilty of practices more shocking and bloody than are the people of the United States, at this very hour.”

Right on target and precisely accurate to this very day!!
Hear, hear…!!!!!!!

One thing that has been settled is that I will be having a “college reunion” of a sort in Beirut, where I will be staying with one of our closest friends from university, who has arranged a meeting of friends from our wider circle. They do not know who the “special visitor” is, so it will be fun to see how it all turns out!

And there will be a brief family reunion in `Amman, assuming the family members are not caught and escorted to the border before my arrival.

“Shirin’s thinking in regard to America, and the middle east is very one sided, not allowing for more effective methods of diplomacy.”

My thinking in regard to America and its dealings with the Middle East is, in part, the thinking of someone who has witnessed and experienced the receiving end of American Middle Eastern policy.

“On Iraq, Shirin advocated, the last I read, anyway, an immediate withdrawal, despite the mess Bush has made.”

Simon has it wrong as usual. I urge a quick, rapid, and complete withdrawal, and I do so not despite the mess the Americans (and not just Bush) have made, but BECAUSE of it.

And as for blaming the mess on Bush, that, like blaming the mess America is in in general on Bush, is short-sited and self-serving. In fact, the mess America has made of Iraq is the doing of a succession of administrations beginning in the ’60’s with American support of Saddam Hussein and others of his ilk. However, the beginnings of the present-day mess can be traced directly to Reagan and Bush I, whose salivating support of Saddam is very well documented, and who did not merely turn a blind eye to his excesses and horrific human rights violations inside and outside of Iraq, but who actually knowingly facilitated them. Then came the post-Kuwait-invasion Bush I regime that began the process that brought a once-thriving Iraq from emerging first-world status to sub-third-world devastation.

And then there was Clinton, whose policy of regime change by strangulation and periodic battery of of the population - all enthusiastically supported by Hillary - was designated as genocidal by two UN Humanitarian coordinators for Iraqi and the Iraq Director of WHO. By the time the Bush II regime moved in with shock and awe followed by its attempts at “economic shock therapy”, not to mention its program of political, social, and cultural deconstruction and transformation (complete with torture, “Salvador options”, etc., Iraq was barely a shadow of itself, and a once-thriving society was already in tatters.

What happened after that was 100% predictable, and most people, including Shirin, who actually know and understand Iraq and Iraqis, predicted it with considerable accuracy.

“What would be the net result of an immediate withdrawal, for all parties?”

A big sigh of relief for most Americans, tinged with various degrees of disappointment and anger that they were allowed to fail at achieving domination in a small, horribly weakened country, and a conviction on the part of quite a few that somehow they had let The Terrorists™ win, despite the fact that The Terrorists™ have never had anything to do with any of it.

For Iraqis, a long, difficult slog to settle the mess the Americans have made of their country over the last three or four decades, some continuing bloodshed, but decreasing over time, and perhaps some decades of an oppressive theocratic regime, thanks to the Americans, or perhaps not. After that, who knows? But at least it will be their country.

“Shirin then said something about the Iraqis wanting us out, as it is their country.”

Wrong again, Simon, as usual. Shirin has repeatedly attempted to hammer home the fact that the overwhelming majority of Iraqis across all ethno-sectarian lines, including even Kurds, want the United States out of their country and the sooner the better. Most recently this came out loudly and clearly – as it always has - in the surveys and focus groups conducted by the United States occupation regime (and it was absolutely fascinating to see how they have tried to spin that into something positive for the occupation!). It is safe to say that virtually the only Iraqis who want the United States to remain are the approximately 15-20% of the population who are benefitting personally, politically, and/or economically from their presence. The other 80-85% want you out of their country and out of their lives. And they want you out not “as it is their country”, they want you out because they understand clearly that you are the root problem, and things will never begin to improve for them until the problem has been uprooted.

And, of course, it IS their country and they should have a right to decide for themselves how it is run and who is allowed to run it, although you seem to think it is not up to them, but up to you, the Great White Father, to decide everything on their behalf.

“And it is, but the Iraqis will face far more bloodshed, and horror with an immediate American withdrawal.”

That is a self-serving assumption that has no basis in either historic or present-day reality. It is an assumption typically held by people, most of whom have never set foot in Iraq, who have no direct experience and no real day-to-day knowledge of Iraq and Iraqis, the historic or present-day dynamics of Iraqi politics or society, and who base their assumptions on the limited and highly inaccurate information they glean from the media and a few mostly self-appointed “experts”. It is an assumption shared by very few people who do have direct experience, knowledge, and understanding of the dynamics of the country and its society and politics.

“The Iraqis should be able to make an informed decision, right? And which Iraqi ethnic group, all of them want us out, or just a couple sects of Shia, say?”

1. Shi’a is not an ethnicity, it is a sect of Islam which crosses ethnic – and, by the way, tribal – boundaries.

2. The vast majority of every single ethnic and religious group want you out. That includes Sunni, Shi`a, Kurd, Turkmen, Assyrian, Chaldean, Armenian, Catholic, Protestant, Yezidi, Mandaean, etc., etc.,you name it, the majority want you out, and within a year at most. But what really matters is not how those ignorant of Iraqi society try to divide Iraqis by sect and ethnicity. What matters is that an overall majority of Iraqis want you out within a year at most. That’s 80-85% of all Iraqis living in Iraq. And of course Simon thinks that what 80-85% of Iraqis living in Iraq should be ignored in favour of assumptions made by him and other Americans.

“And Shirin ignores the possibility OTHER countries are also gaming Iraq, for their own benefit, Russia, China, and the EU all have a stake in energy, it would be STUPID to think otherwise.”

Unlike Simon, Shirin simply thinks that is none of Americans’ business. Unlike Simon, Shirin simply does not believe that America has a superior right over anyone else to game Iraq for its own benefit, and unlike Simon, Shirin simply thinks that is Iraqis’ business who benefits from a relationship with Iraq. Further, unlike Simon, Shirin has confidence in Iraqis’ ability to make their own decisions about such matters, and that American ought to have to stand in line with everyone else rather than using its deadly and destructive military might to gain the head of the line.

“The US WILL build schools, and hospitals, if a competent President is elected.”

Did it EVER occur to Simon for ONE NANOSECOND that the U.S. is not the only one capable of building schools? Did if EVER occur to Simon for ONE NANOSECOND that Iraqis might be capable of building their own schools? And did it EVER occur to Simon for ONE NANOSECOND that if Iraqis need help building their schools they are capable of deciding who should help them, and that the party that spent twenty years or so destroying what was once one of the finest education systems in the region (and in many ways better than the American system) might not be the best choice to build Iraq’s schools?

Did it EVER occur to Simon at all that the criminal who raped and beat his victim half to death is not the best choice to guide her rehabilitation? And did it EVER occur to Simon that the victim of this rape and beating might not be a helpless, ignorant, incapable person, and might be the best person to choose who guides her rehabilitation?

“Shirin’s thinking in regard to America, and the middle east is very one sided, not allowing for more effective methods of diplomacy.”

My thinking in regard to America and its dealings with the Middle East is, in part, the thinking of someone who has witnessed and experienced the receiving end of American Middle Eastern policy.

“On Iraq, Shirin advocated, the last I read, anyway, an immediate withdrawal, despite the mess Bush has made.”

Simon has it wrong as usual. I urge a quick, rapid, and complete withdrawal, and I do so not despite the mess the Americans (and not just Bush) have made, but BECAUSE of it.

And as for blaming the mess on Bush, that, like blaming the mess America is in in general on Bush, is short-sited and self-serving. In fact, the mess America has made of Iraq is the doing of a succession of administrations beginning in the ’60’s with American support of Saddam Hussein and others of his ilk. However, the beginnings of the present-day mess can be traced directly to Reagan and Bush I, whose salivating support of Saddam is very well documented, and who did not merely turn a blind eye to his excesses and horrific human rights violations inside and outside of Iraq, but who actually knowingly facilitated them. Then came the post-Kuwait-invasion Bush I regime that began the process that brought a once-thriving Iraq from emerging first-world status to sub-third-world devastation.

And then there was Clinton, whose policy of regime change by strangulation and periodic battery of of the population - all enthusiastically supported by Hillary - was designated as genocidal by two UN Humanitarian coordinators for Iraqi and the Iraq Director of WHO. By the time the Bush II regime moved in with shock and awe followed by its attempts at “economic shock therapy”, not to mention its program of political, social, and cultural deconstruction and transformation (complete with torture, “Salvador options”, etc., Iraq was barely a shadow of itself, and a once-thriving society was already in tatters.

What happened after that was 100% predictable, and most people, including Shirin, who actually know and understand Iraq and Iraqis, predicted it with considerable accuracy.

“What would be the net result of an immediate withdrawal, for all parties?”

A big sigh of relief for most Americans, tinged with various degrees of disappointment and anger that they were allowed to fail at achieving domination in a small, horribly weakened country, and a conviction on the part of quite a few that somehow they had let The Terrorists™ win, despite the fact that The Terrorists™ have never had anything to do with any of it.

For Iraqis, a long, difficult slog to settle the mess the Americans have made of their country over the last three or four decades, some continuing bloodshed, but decreasing over time, and perhaps some decades of an oppressive theocratic regime, thanks to the Americans, or perhaps not. After that, who knows? But at least it will be their country.

“Shirin then said something about the Iraqis wanting us out, as it is their country.”

Wrong again, Simon, as usual. Shirin has repeatedly attempted to hammer home the fact that the overwhelming majority of Iraqis across all ethno-sectarian lines, including even Kurds, want the United States out of their country and the sooner the better. Most recently this came out loudly and clearly – as it always has - in the surveys and focus groups conducted by the United States occupation regime (and it was absolutely fascinating to see how they have tried to spin that into something positive for the occupation!). It is safe to say that virtually the only Iraqis who want the United States to remain are the approximately 15-20% of the population who are benefitting personally, politically, and/or economically from their presence. The other 80-85% want you out of their country and out of their lives. And they want you out not “as it is their country”, they want you out because they understand clearly that you are the root problem, and things will never begin to improve for them until the problem has been uprooted.

And, of course, it IS their country and they should have a right to decide for themselves how it is run and who is allowed to run it, although you seem to think it is not up to them, but up to you, the Great White Father, to decide everything on their behalf.

“And it is, but the Iraqis will face far more bloodshed, and horror with an immediate American withdrawal.”

That is a self-serving assumption that has no basis in either historic or present-day reality. It is an assumption typically held by people, most of whom have never set foot in Iraq, who have no direct experience and no real day-to-day knowledge of Iraq and Iraqis, the historic or present-day dynamics of Iraqi politics or society, and who base their assumptions on the limited and highly inaccurate information they glean from the media and a few mostly self-appointed “experts”. It is an assumption shared by very few people who do have direct experience, knowledge, and understanding of the dynamics of the country and its society and politics.

“The Iraqis should be able to make an informed decision, right? And which Iraqi ethnic group, all of them want us out, or just a couple sects of Shia, say?”

1. Shi’a is not an ethnicity, it is a sect of Islam which crosses ethnic – and, by the way, tribal – boundaries.

2. The vast majority of every single ethnic and religious group want you out. That includes Sunni, Shi`a, Kurd, Turkmen, Assyrian, Chaldean, Armenian, Catholic, Protestant, Yezidi, Mandaean, etc., etc.,you name it, the majority want you out, and within a year at most. But what really matters is not how those ignorant of Iraqi society try to divide Iraqis by sect and ethnicity. What matters is that an overall majority of Iraqis want you out within a year at most. That’s 80-85% of all Iraqis living in Iraq. And of course Simon thinks that what 80-85% of Iraqis living in Iraq should be ignored in favour of assumptions made by him and other Americans.

“And Shirin ignores the possibility OTHER countries are also gaming Iraq, for their own benefit, Russia, China, and the EU all have a stake in energy, it would be STUPID to think otherwise.”

Unlike Simon, Shirin simply thinks that is none of Americans’ business. Unlike Simon, Shirin simply does not believe that America has a superior right over anyone else to game Iraq for its own benefit, and unlike Simon, Shirin simply thinks that is Iraqis’ business who benefits from a relationship with Iraq. Further, unlike Simon, Shirin has confidence in Iraqis’ ability to make their own decisions about such matters, and that American ought to have to stand in line with everyone else rather than using its deadly and destructive military might to gain the head of the line.

“The US WILL build schools, and hospitals, if a competent President is elected.”

Did it EVER occur to Simon for ONE NANOSECOND that the U.S. is not the only one capable of building schools? Did if EVER occur to Simon for ONE NANOSECOND that Iraqis might be capable of building their own schools? And did it EVER occur to Simon for ONE NANOSECOND and that the party that spent twenty years or so destroying what was once one of the finest education systems in the region (and in many ways better than the American system) might not be the part to build shools?

Did it EVER occur to Simon at all that the criminal who raped and beat his victim half to death is not the best choice to guide her rehabilitation? And did it EVER occur to Simon that the victim of this rape and beating might not be a helpless, ignorant, incapable person in her own right?

re Obama’s crowd manipulation techniques in Chicago (teaching Saul Alinsky methods).