Denying Vets and Active Duty Military Votes in MI & FL
By Taters on March 22, 2008 at 1:37 AM in Democrats, Florida, Michigan, Obama, Soldiers/Veterans
Sen. Obama has made it clear he has no wish for the voters in Florida and Michigan to be heard. OK, as a Michigan resident who voted in our state’s primary I’m starting to understand my vote means nothing to Sen. Obama or the DNC.
It’s a real eye opener and disgusts me immensely. But to deny those that have served or are currently serving in our Armed Forces is perhaps an even more grievous affront upon decency, completely devoid of reason and something I could never imagine in our country.
I never wore the uniform but my late father was active duty for 26 years, career military, he always voted and corresponded with his elected officials in his home state of Pennsylvania. The “old man” served in two wars but I remember him sending his ballot in - even when we were stationed overseas.
To not allow those that served or those who are currently serving their voice is a terrible blow upon the dignity of those that have sworn to defend the constitution against enemies both foreign and domestic - with their lives if need be - it is truly beyond the pale.
In Michigan, the flag is flown at half mast when we lose one of ours in uniform. It is a stark reminder of those that have paid the ultimate price. We have had 148 casualties, since the beginning of the war, not counting those wounded or whose lives may never be the same again. And Florida has lost 170 service members as of this date.
If Sen. Obama and the DNC are dead set on stilling my voice and other Americans in both states FL & MI, there’s probably nothing I can do about it. Shame on you if you do not at least count the votes of those who are serving and have served our country so honorably. One simple phone call, Senator. It is also beyond me that those Obama supporters and advisers such as John Kerry, Ted Kennedy or Tom Daschle - who have worn the uniform - would allow this to happen.
Cross posted at MyDD
Looks like this Current PLAN is Bigger than the Constitution TATERS..
The Evolution Revolution..
Democracy is DEAD..
PH,
What was it this huckster is peddling again?
BARGAINS….
He’s a BARGAINER..Taters..
Thanks for clarifying Patrick. Words like huckster, shyster, grifter, and three card monte seem to be dancing through my head when he comes to mind..
Those are” AUDACITY “Taters..
I never thought about the votes cast aside by those serving in the military. That is really disgusting. That is sickening.
It is a sad indictment, Hope.
Why isn’t it just as sickening if a non-veteran’s vote is cast aside?
This whole effort to pretend the MI/FL primary kerfuffle is a veterans’ issue is just a cheap stunt designed to manipulate the patriotism of the American people. It’s exactly the same trick the Republicans used in Florida during the 2000 election. Remember all the bogus claims about counting active military members’ votes back then?
This is just Mark Penn taking yet another page out of Karl Rove’s playbook. The more you guys rant, the more you sound just like the Rethuglicans.
Wrong. Washington state’s GOP tried to have veterans votes blocked from counting as absentee ballots so they could try to take some races. A judge ruled otherwise.
A lot of troops stationed then in Afghanistan/Iraq voted the gop ticket out.
It’s been patterned prior. It is a shame to have seen Dean back this effort to stymie votes, the result of GOP legislative shenanigans in those states. There’s a precedent already set for this item.
Jake, don’t be such a tool.
The bedrock of democracy is that every person’s VOTE counts. As a nation, we have constantly struggled with that, whether through poll taxes, eligibility rules, street toughs, the Klan, lynchings, and the GOP’s long held goal of voter suppression.
The right to vote, even in the primaries, is sacred. Waver on that, and we are not the “Democratic” party. I used hear Republicans justify voter suppression attempts by pointing to their party’s name, and by pointing out that constitutionally, we are a republic (not a “true” democracy).
But I belong to the Democratic Party. If I see it move away that core belief, I will cease my life-long association and support. My family have been Democrats for just that reason, since William Jennings Bryan (including one former POTUS). That has changed, slowly, as the Democratic Party moved away from the mainstream toward a left-ward elitism that mirrored the GOP’s right-ward elitism.
Looks like it may be changing some more.
Sorry but by what rationale do you find it “Rove Like” and “Republican” like, I don’t use terms like Rethuglican it’s so juvenile to me, to be outraged that voters, any voters, in or out of uniform are being disenfranchised?
Mark Penn? He may be many of the things that liberals like to tar him with but he isn’t the one keeping voters in 2 states from having their votes count. That would be you self-righteous, hypocritical Obama supporters that call others names while approving an outrage against the American People. It isn’t about what candidate you support, it’s about allowing citizens to vote and to have their vote count.
The DNC, Howard Dean, and now the Obama campaign seem hell bent on disenfranchising the voters in MI and FL. Any “real” progressive would see that as wrong no matter what candidate they support.
Blinded by partisan bias it is repulsive that so many “progressives” will allow anything that helps their candidate.
Obama and his partisan trolls may win the nomination. It’s seems impossible that they haven’t all ready done so what with most of the media in their camp, their own cable network News channel, formerly known as MSNBC and most of Left Blogostan ready, willing and able to smear Hillary Clinton worse than the Right-wing nut jobs did.
The more you allow your partisanship to erode your ethics, the sadder you become. If you want to call Rove Tactics and Republican Tactics, take a good look in the mirror. You have become all that you “claim” to hate.
Jake, you really don’t see yourself very objectively. You do realize what you are doing right?
“Rethuglicans”
Fuck you brownshirt.
What you have done nitwit is define yourself as the center of the universe, and the problem with your arrogance is that you cannot control the reality outside your mental dome. You have spent a little too long with the Obamatalkingpoints.
I’m surprised you can remember back to 2000. But I can..and I saw these same mindless attacks from Gore’s camp against my candidate Ralph Nader. It is a very familiar stench.
You have actually done what Bushies do…they redefined the “right”. They took the far right and made it appear more moderate “center” of America that wasn’t all that political suddenly looked very leftie. They vilified “liberals” the way you vilify anyone who doesn’t like your candidate.
You have become your own worst nightmare. You are a Bushie now. Just following Obama.
Ya know, I just heard a ranting woman on CSPAN claim Clinton divided the party, and then demanded she drop out of the race.
WELL GUESS FUCKING WHAT…SHE DIDN’T DROP OUT BEFORE MARCH 4TH AND HANDED OBAMA 3 of 4 LOSSES. Because it ain’t over till Yogi Berra sings baby.
And the arrogance, the pure cynicism of your ilk to dare tell my candidate to DROP OUT, TO LEAVE, TO END THIS, has been met with 3 big states, and headed for Pennsylvania, you are about to see even more. The polls are shifting now that the ultrashine has worn off.
Paint up your pig baby, you’re about learn a lesson in politics that I hope you never forget.
You want some division, then keep pointing at your party members who didn’t vote for your candidate and calling them “like Rethuglians”. You are engaged in demagoguery. When you do that. And since that is what you are smearing others with, you are a hypocrite.
And the further both sides become buried in the snow.
Which was never your intention.
Get it?
No?
WHAT a surprise, precious.
It is just one of many issues of voters disenfranchised…by Obama , Dean and Donna Brazile…but i will tell you, having been a Dem Delegate in Fla..and living near McDill AFB, the headquarters of this war, the loss to the Dem party will be enormous! We have a Huge Vet population, and Dems here, both Vets and Active duty and their Dem families..are pissed beyond words.
This may be new info to many in other states but we in Fla and i am sure the same could be said in Michigan, we know what was done to our vote, we know who was responsible..and we will hold them and the Dem party accountable…
for a very very long time!
take a moment and think about this..
you take the time, and you go and votes..record numbers of dems did vote in Fla..1.8 million of us..more than double those who voted in 2004 for the primary..yes more than double, and that was believed to be a very important election..
and now your vote is negated, you are nothing and not counted..
just think about that.
from a nothing , not counted in Fla…
Fly
(last time I was not counted and a nothing was 2000 by republicans..this time,..I am a nothing , not counted by Obama , Dean and Brazile, and the Dem party.)
Are you sure you wish to make a reference to Florida 2000, Jake? You’re sounding alot like John Bolton.
http://www.americanprogress.org/issues/2005/03/b252671.html
Obama exposed as a fraud
http://www.bufford.politicalgateway.com/main/columns/read.html?col=737
They use the Free Republic as a source?
I’d view that with an air of skepticism.
Using the Freeps hints at intent, the author has bias extending beyond his affirmative comments.
Duly noted,…unless you are pointing out that the Freepers were having a field day with the Obama photo before Drudge attacked Clinton with it.
From Rezkowatch today, a link to John Kass of the Chicago Tribune, and the Illinois Combine, ie democrats and republicans working together to steal from the people, through the government.
Well, Obama is a part of that, as well as a part of the Washington Combine.
It isn’t about the people, it’s about getting wealthy, and staying wealthy, by stealing.
The minute I see the word fundraiser, I think corrupt kitchen cabinet member. How can men of that sort, as stupid as Rezko, direct a war?
They can’t.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/chi-kass_bdmar23,1,2408773.column
Yes, thatcame in looking up the date that the photo first surfaced via google.
Using timelines and using the kind of agitprop they crank out are different entirely. A presentation disclaimer could distinguish such differences.
Now all that’s lacking is an Axelrove announcement that they’ve uncovered a plot to burn down their campaign headquarters. They’ll immediately ask for martial law of course.
What I find puzzling is that before this campaign got into full swing (ie before the Obama people started hijacking it) there was a lot being said about the descent into the totalitarian state. It was said the signs were all there. But now it’s the same thing or worse except the perpetrators are different. But nothing’s being said. Sorry but someone is not only hijacking an election - they’re also hijacking democracy. And no one outside of awake circles such as this site is uttering a word of protest.
Theme of the day, “Walter, we’re all doomed?”
You see, this is the second post I have read in this thread complaining of democracy being destroyed. This was also a recurring theme on Kos, and the other blogs. Every post reads the same. It’s as if the troll themes can be categorized, now, and predicted, they are so regular, the same group over and over. Even your enemies can predict what you will come up with and when, you repeat the same themes over and over, so predictably. Other seize control of your program, right under your nose.
This always puts me in the mind as to why competition in a free market works: new ideas.
This is stagnation, not even disruptive. And for the troll meister, well, once others see your pattern, they can use it against you.
But you can’t see that, can you?
Bill Kristol’s politics of fear. How’d that work out for them?
Not too good.
Too bad they can’t keep two thoughts in their heads at the same time.
The opening line of your post is false. Obama has consistently stated that he supports a full and fair re-vote in Florida and Michigan if that is what the DNC and the states decide.
Do you really think elections with only one candidate listed on the ballot are fair? That kind of thing may have flown in the Soviet Union, but I’d like to think our standards are a little higher here in America.
And by the way, since when is a veteran’s vote more important than a non-veteran’s? I appreciate the sacrifices our veterans make just as much as you do, but my vote is just as important as theirs.
Obama supports allowing the Fl and Mi delegates to be seated … only if he gets 1/2 of them. Never mind how many actually voted for him. A sweet deal for him, but not for the voters who oppose him.
He wanted Michigan to allow REPUBLICANS to vote in the DEMOCRATIC primary. Obama has won many of his DEMOCRATIC delegates with REPUBLICAN votes.
In adition, Obama was on the MI ballot initialy. But he decided to remove his name when polls showed Hillary was way ahead and would hand him an early big defeat.
This is the same kind of dirty politics he has played since the beginning of his career. Just go ask Alice Palmer and three other candidates for IL State Senate that he ran off the ballot so that he could run unopposed.
Chicago reporters also say that his campaign pushed them behind the scenes to run the story about his opponent’s, Blair Hull’s, alleged domestic abuse charges, which led to Hull’s dropping out of the race and, essentially, Obama running unopposed again.
And it is again exactly what he is trying to do now by attempting to push Clinton out of this race. However, Hillary is not a push over and Obama is not getting his way, spoled child that he is. And right now he is acting like a spoiled child who cannot get his way throwing tantrums all over the place.
Pointing out that this ploy by Obama also manages to disenfranchise our soldiers and vets just adds to the duplcity of Obama and should rightly be pointed out.
And last of all, it is a sad, sad day when an African American man moves to disenfrachise voters any where any how all for personal petty political advantage. There is a name for this and it is DIRTY POLITICS.
Obama was on the Florida ballot.
Yes he was.
He also ran ads on tv in Florida.
He held a news conference too, saying he’d seat Florida delegates:
But that was in Florida, when there were voted to try and get. Now that they’re not voting, he doesn’t so much need them.
See also NOLA.
Sorry, Jake, the DNC DID give the thumbs up to MI, but he still objected - I say as I’ve said before, WHAT IS HE AFRAID OF? Defending people’s right to vote is never the wrong move for a politician.
I just can’t fathom why the DNC won’t take him behind the woodshed on this. Surely they know we can’t win in the GE without MI and FL. Dean needs to just admit he made a colossal mistake and seat the damn delegates or set a date for the redos. Tell the candidates it will count whether they like it or not. ENOUGH ALREADY!!!
The DNC has decided to let Obama have his way and not force a revote. They and Pelosi and a few others have given in to his tantrums. They are afraid he will take his ball and go home. If The DNC really wanted new primaries they would threaten him with accept new primaries or Hillary gets the votes and delegates she has already won. And if Obama actually thought she could never win he would give her the states she won to shut her up and get on to the convention. BUT that is not the caes. He is stalling. Running out the clock and he will lose in the GE, but he doesn’t care. And I am afraid the GOP will tie his anti-American preacher around all Dems to prevent the Dems from really taking control of the Congress. The real problem is that Obama may have coattails, but not the kind we need.
Obama had a choice..a clear choice to have his name on the MI ballot..he chose to remove his own name..no where..read that again, no where in the rules did it say he needed to remove his name from the MI ballot..get that again..no where in the rules did it say any candidate had to remove their names from a ballot..it was his choice and his alone to do that..
in Fla Obama was the only candidate of all the candidates to campaign in Florida and break the pledge he signed.
ok now read that again..he was the only one to cheat..and he did that before the ink was dry on the pledge he signed and he also did it by spening 1 million on commericals that he knew would come into Florida before our election..1 weeks worth..not one other candidate did that that signed the pledge not to campaign..so the only damn cheater was Obama..and now you are bitching???????
how about those of us who supported other candidates that did not cheat??????????
check the date of this..
no only did Obama cheat the other candidates and voters of Fla by running ad’s we all saw over and over and over again..
he was the very first to come into Fla after signing the pledge not to campaign in Fla..and he was the first to say he would seat the Floridia delegation..this was within days of his signing the pledge to not campaign in Fla..
if you do not understand yet what a habitual liar Obama is..you are either 1. dumb or 2. seeing your first presidential election, or 3. extremely naive and ignorant of politics.
and 4. you want to be lied to ..therefore continuing the Bush legacy..you want a beer with your liar…
http://www2.tbo.com/content/2007/sep/30/obama-vows-do-whats-right/?news-breaking
By WILLIAM MARCH and ELAINE SILVESTRINI The Tampa Tribune
Barack Obama held an impromptu news conference after a Tampa fundraiser Sunday.
Published: September 30, 2007
Fundraising Totals | Primary States | Where They Stand
TAMPA - Barack Obama hinted during a Tampa fundraiser Sunday that if he’s the presumptive Democratic presidential nominee, he’ll seat a Florida delegation at the party’s national convention, despite national party sanctions prohibiting it.
Obama also appeared to violate a pledge he and the other leading candidates took by holding a brief news conference outside the fundraiser. That was less than a day after the pledge took effect Saturday, and Obama is the first Democratic presidential candidate to visit Florida since then.
Obama and others have pledged not to campaign in Florida until the Jan. 29 primary except for fundraising, which is what he was doing in Tampa.
But after the fundraiser at the Hyde Park home of Tom and Linda Scarritt, Obama crossed the street to take half a dozen questions from reporters waiting there.
The pledge covers anything referred to in Democratic National Committee rules as “campaigning,” and those include “holding news conferences.”
Obama seemed unaware the pledge he signed prohibits news conferences. Asked whether he was violating it, he said, “I was just doing you guys a favor. … If that’s the case, then we won’t do it again.”
Frank Sanchez, a Tampa Obama supporter who helped organize the fundraiser, said the encounter illustrates the awkward situation the candidates have been put in by the controversy over the state’s Jan. 29 presidential primary.
That date - earlier than allowed by rules of both major political parties - has led to a threat of sanctions against both Florida Republicans and Democrats, and to the Democrats’ boycott pledge.
“This wasn’t planned,” Sanchez said of the brief press availability. “He was going to the car, and he just went across the street for a moment.”
more at link.
You are deluded. Obama has objected to anything but a “split” in Fla, for openers. Only a revote in ea state would matter, and he knows he loses both states.
Who’s jacking off your head?
Right, Obama isn’t stonewalling. What planet do you inhabit? Cuz it sure ain’t this one.
OT: Thanks Taters, Earlier I thought of ya and found this.
http://www.weshow.com/uk/p/21281/ella_fitzgerald_sings_stormy_weather_on_german_tv_in_1975
Taters’ concerns are so obviously predictable that one wonders what Dean and the DNC were thinking. Didn’t they consider that even if you unseat the delegates, the GE votes still count? And the voters just might be P.O.ed enough that they might take their votes and go home? That Obama would try this is unsurprising … for a republican.
With all due respect, it is not within Clinton’s or Obama’s power to say what happens in Florida and Michigan. States control whether there is a primary or not. If those states do not support a primary, there’s nothing either candidate can do about it.
And let’s not forget that it was these two states that broke the primary scheduling rules in the first place. All of this complaining about seating delegates might have looked like something other than desperation and opportunism if it had occurred before the primaries took place.
With all due respect…
Oh…you caught that by P J O’Rourke on Bill Maher too, huh?
Jake..
ahh excuse me, please edcuate yourself..and stop drinking the kool aide..you know nothing.,.so stop commenting on what you know nothing about..pleaseeeeeeeee
Florida became the fitst state in the nation to Ban the DRE voting machines and make Voter Verified paper Ballots with the bill that was brought before the Fla republican controlled, the Republican state legislature attached to that bill the date change of the Primary, knowing full well it would screw the Dems in the state, they were willing to give up 1/2 of their delegates to screw the dems..
See, we in Fla had our election stolen in 2000 by the Supreme court , 2002 by the DRE machines, 2004, and 2006..in 2006 Sarasota county , Kathrine Harris county, had 18,000 votes go missing and guess what ..there was no way to audit and find out how or why the votes went missing..
there was not one dem minority Legislator that would have voted against the bill banning DRE’s from the state or against mandating Voter Verified Paper Ballots through out the state.
We expected Dean and the DNC to applaude Fla dems getting what no other state in the nation was able to accomplish..but what did we get..we got a screaming Dean saying..you will be punished..you will be punished..and he immediately began his push of Caucus on Fla dems…Many of us could not understand why..and we could not undwerstand why Dean was so hard pushing caucus…
maybe you can be fooled but the dems in Fla..we are not fooled..or bamboozled..
oh and please go look at the rules South Carolina broke..the same ones Fla did ..also with a republican legislative majority..oh and Nevada as well..just check the rules they broke with their Prmiary date change..
so lets see …SC can break the rules and still has Diebold voting machines..they didn’t get punished like we in Fla did ..with the same kind of Repig state Legislative majority..noooooooooo they didn’t get sanctioned ..and they didn’t even get rid of their croked voting machines..like we did in Fla!..Nope it was Fla that got sanctioned..and we became with that bill the first state in the nation to outlaw DRe voting machines..and the first state in the nation to mandate Voter verified paper ballots…
wow ..Dean did a great job didn’t he?
oh and by the way the bill to ban DRE’s was put forward by citizens and mostly Dem citizens of Fla, that the primary date change was attached to.
But Dean and Obama and Donna Brazile haven’t told you that, have they?????
well we in Fla we know..we know all about it!!
count on that..
the fix was in by the DNC and Dean and Donna Brazile..and Obama..they wanted to cheat our vote in Fla with a caucus..and fuck our primary real rules..and our closed Dem primary rules..they were immediately trying to push Fla to a caucus..and now we all know why!!..because the damn fix was in on the caucus’s
So if you think 7,000 wyoming caucus voters are more important than 1.8 million democratic registerted Fla voters..go for it..but i would put money on Wyoming not being in the dem column in Nov!! You can count on that..and after Dean and Obama have now pissed on 1.8 million Fla Dem registered, close state voters..i will assure you ..they will lose Fla by a landslide!
And you will be saying President McCain!
I TRUELY BELIEVED FLA WAS GOING TO GO VERY BLUE IN NOV. ..now if Obama is our nominee , i have not one doubt ..Fla will be a landslide for McCain.
The only way Fla is in Play big time is Hillary.
Now at this point, if you are a superdelegate you need to be looking at the Electoral College votes, If you are willing to give up Fla and MI electoral votes..for Wyomings..go right ahead…at the dem party peril! and all our peril!
This is not the first time Obama has fucked the voters..look at his history in Illinois..and Alice Palmer..this is not the first time Obama purged voters http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/chi-070403obama-ballot,0,1843097.story
We in Fla are not fooled , not by Obama , and not by Dean and not by Donna Brazile!
OH Yes Jake..
Our Standards are Higher here in what was it Pastor Wright called Us.??.Not the Soviet union…No..Hmmm..
Oh Yes..something like the USKKK of AMERICA…
Well I’m sure Obama and his Cabinet will fix that..
Yes Sir Jake…VOTES & VETS COUNT..
You don’t..
Ahh, yet another race-baiting Republican. Shouldn’t you be watching Fox News or listening to Rush Limbaugh right now?
Your astonishing powers of intuition and deductive reasoning are failing you badly. Give it a shot after you’ve rested up.
No worries. We’re not going anywhere, little feller.
Patrick Henry - a race baiting Republican? Wow.
You’re pretty far off base.
Taters, if “Patrick Henry’s” race-baiting bilge is the kind of sentiment you’re willing to side with, then that says a lot about the sincerity of your argument. Keep playing the race and jingoism cards, though. It’s kind of sad and desperate, but if it’s all you guys have got, I guess I kinda understand.
Prove your case.
You don’t.
So you’re not better than Tweety.
Jake
Is the word Republican supposed to scare a person into submission? Why should anyone be intimidated by being called a name?
So anyone that doesn’t agree with you and finds the “hate-filled” remarks of Reverend Wright absolutely unacceptable is a race-baiting Republican? Great argument, for a 12 year old.
There are far more blogs that are ready to anoint St. Obama than there are that support Hillary Clinton. Why are you not there instead of here? Ah yes, that would be because you want to fight with someone and call names. Can’t find that where you are all genuflecting in the same direction. What a sad little troll you are.
Lot of Hillary supporters have left D****K** and other partisan BO blogs. The BO supporters can’t STAND to not have someone to argue and race bait, name call with, so they seek out blogs where Sen. Clinton supporters gather to try and mud sling and scream I’m right, I’m right and you are so wrong because BO is the greatest, way cool…uniter ever….”
Can’t get much traction though for the slinging here though.
barbh,
THEY COME ON LIKE TAG TEAMS..all one has to do is watch..they are mostly very immature, and they are sent out by the obama team in teams of two or three…quite Rovian!!
Over at Taylor Marsh’s site, we give the likes of Jake the honorific “TROLLS” and respectfully ignore him. Fortunately, his ilk does not speak for the rest of the Democratic Party - and more importantly, the ordinary Americans of all races and creed - and does not share his views and double standards. It’s probably symptomatic of the times - given eight years of NeoCon rule - but the Democratic Party should not veer too far to the left and leave it hostaged by rabid partisans. The country cannot afford to be distracted by discussions on race (by the same person who chose to remain silent about it for 20 years until it threatened his presidential candidacy) when there are more pressing issues like the economy, healthcare, education, etc. Enough of the Obama demagoguery!
And that is why I no longer post at Taylor Marsh’s site. Jake is unquestionably a troll, and not even a very good one. But when even the merest disagreement with a post or with another commenter can get one labeled a troll, and when you start issuing blacklists of those to whom you are not to speak, the troll-labelling has gone a little too far.
I am with those who believe that, while responding to mere name-calling is counterproductive, when someone from the Obama camp posts purported facts that are in error, they should be challenged.
I will say Obama does not know of service in that regard and would not be that altruistic.
It is not part of his nature.
I am saddend that the folks in Florida (go figure) and Michigan are not part of the United States this year. I suppose the govenors of these states should bring the guard home since they are not allowed to vote. Talk about Jim Crow.
KITE..
Stalin said ..something like..”It doesn’t matter who Cast the Ballots..It just matters who COUNTS them..”
Jim Crow Laws..Yes..a terrible time for America..I knew a great Band in Texas that I used to hang out with..from Lubbock..They had a great stand up Piano Player who was Black…Band couldn’t get Gigs in some places because he was in the Band..He was one of my best friends while I lived there..I used to go up to his place and we all went down to the Community Center where the Black Musicians would meet and all the people would gather around there and play music and sing all day Saturdays..
It was one of the best times of my Life..The 60s..
I Never liked RACISM..I don’t Care what Color it is..or WHERE its PREACHED..
We have come a long ways since then..and we need to move forward..TOGETHER..
Not look for excuses for PAYBACKS..
I agree.
Susan:
My colleague David Epstein has figured it out: Senator Clinton will soon have the lead in the race for the presidential nomination of the Democratic Party. His blog is at
http://www.reflectivepundit.com/reflectivepundit/2008/03/clinton-will-so.html
Well, that explains why the media was SCREAMING for Hillary to ADMIT ITS ALL OVER and WITHDRAW–Before Ohio and Texas. Because they knew she would win those states and regain the momentum.
It also explains why MSNBC, etc. considered California to be the lynchpin of the nomination race- until Hillary won it.
Time and again, the media have tried to get us ignorant, silly voters to see that Hillary has already lost- and time and again, we refuse to buy it. So their collective heads continue to explode. The level of frustration must be at the boiling point.
The narrative is all set up- when Hillary wins the nomination, it will be by cheating somehow- never mind she won more popular votes, never mind she was the choice of more Democrats.
Meanwhile, if Obama wins by refusing to allow Florida and Michigan representation at the convention, well, that’s just fine, because those states “knew what the rules were and broke them anyway” (aren’t you thoroughly sick of that line?)
Imagine Hillary winning by refusing to allow two big states to vote, on the grounds that she A) didn’t have her name on the ballot, and B) didn’t campaign there?
The Goalpost is 2,025 votes. The Superdelegates will decide, neither candidate can win without them (you’d be forgiven for believing only Hillary needs them to win- that’s pretty much what the media tells us, ad nauseum.) They ought to decide based on two factors and two factors only:
1. Who has the best chance to win?
2. Who would make the best President?
Hillary shouldn’t have agreed to the rules in Michigan.
These are her words:
And yet, Obama, Edwards, etc. all urged their supporters in Michigan to vote Uncommitted. Why, if the delegates were never going to count? Obama also told the people of NH that Hillary’s name was on the Michigan ballot and that she was therefore “dissing” their status- again why, if the delegates were never going to count?
Obama also ran ads in Florida. Why? Why did Obama leave his name on the ballot in Florida if that state was never going to count? Do you honestly believe that Obama wouldn’t be screaming “DEMOCRACY! LET THE VOTES COUNT!” if he had won Michigan and Florida? Please!
I recently took a look at the popular vote totals that are being touted by Obama’s people and hadn’t realized that they are counting all of the “uncommitted” votes as votes for Obama in their totals. Take a look over at Talkleft.com. If they can claim those votes, how can they ignore the other voters from Florida and Michigan that didn’t go their way. I cannot wait to place the bumper sticker on my car that says “typical white person”.
Wow…
I never cease to be amazed at the bitterness and rancor that surrounds politics in this country. One would think that the candidates being discussed here were in different parties. It’s very discouraging to read blogs like this. I don’t think that the fellows who created the Constitution had this in mind as the fruits of their labor.
Then you haven’t read much about some of their “discusssions”.
I bet you spend a lot of time admonishing the people over at HuffPo, DailyKos, etc. for their anti-Hillary posts, which number in the thousands and which drown out the pro-Hillary ones.
Oh, you don’t? Maybe you are too busy trying to get through to Randi Rhodes, Rachel Maddow and Ed Schultz, asking them to tone down their anti-Hillary ranting? Is that it?
Because if you aren’t doing either of those things, you are just a sanctimonious phony. Give me a break.
I’m actually unimpressed by anti-anybody rhetoric. How do you portray your candidate in a more positive light by portraying your candidate’s opponents in a negative light? Supporters of all three of the remaining candidates, McCain, Clinton and Obama, are guilty of this, and it replaces a reasonable discussion of the issues to everybody’s detriment.
I refuse to attack the views of others (and those others themselves) in discussing the election, and I guess that makes me a sanctimonious phony. Go ahead and vent your spleens, and I’m sorry to have troubled you.
Mongo?
Is that from Blazing Saddles?
Favorite line:
“oh, mongo straight.”
LOL… in my case, it actually comes from one of the restaurant sketches in Monty Python.
mongo…
Let them not count “your vote”..and then come on over here to Florida and lets discuss bitterness!!
First it was done to us by Republicans and the supreme court..then by the voting machines that could not be audited in any way….now by Obama and our own party leaders ..i.e. Dean and Donna Brazile ..both Obama supporters!
Come on down..and throw your vote away ..with those of us in Florida..you too can say “the aligator ate your vote”..doesn’t really bring any laughs anymore though , i will warn you of that.
..or you might try out Michigan!!
Obama is making a big mistake, because while Hillary would win both contests, the pledged delegate situation still probably would be to his advantage.
He opens himself to the view by half the Party that his nomination is illegitimate.
Hillary should tell the DNC and Obama that we either get a democratic outcome in Florida and Michigan that accurately reflects sentiments there, or she goes third party.
If Obama prevails by vote suppression and loses in November, the Democrats are going to split anyway.
Excellent post, Bob H.
Thank you for pointing this out, Taters. It’s my view that this is a crucial argument that must be made, just as Julian Bond has correctly made the argument that minorities, too, will be disenfranchised in Florida and Michigan.
It’s not just millions of ordinary citizens participating in one of the most fundamental acts of democracy Barack Obama is disenfranchising with his legal challenges against re-votes in Florida and Michigan; it’s also veterans, who are fighting and dying in Iraq and Afghanistan. I am a veteran from a military family [Seven military retirees, one buried at Arlington; service in 5 wars, from Korea to Iraq, including a sister who served in Somalia during the Black Hawk Down incident]. As a veteran, I take disenfranchisement of any veteran personally.
The disenfranchisement of veterans and their families in both Florida and Michigan is a betrayal of their service to country.
No one who hasn’t been making the horrific sacrifices these veterans have made for the past 5 years, could possibly comprehend what it means to “serve your country.”
There is simply no act more profoundly offensive than to dismiss the enormous sacrifice of active-duty vets, spouses, children, parents, siblings, extended families; the financial, emotional, and physical toll of service to country–exponential in the case of injury or death.
The breathtakingly contemptuous act of stripping veterans of their right to have their vote counted, is, without doubt, an offense that goes to the core of our democratic system.
This point should be made in the strongest terms, by those who know those sacrifices of veterans and their families. I hope Gen. Wes Clark and other veterans will make this point–in the strongest possible terms–to Howard Dean, who is on the verge of endling his DNC Chairmanship with a legacy of shame for the Democratic Party in Florida and Michigan.
bmc,
I say to you from the bottom of my heart, thank you for all the sacrifices you and your family - past and present - have made in the service of our country.
Your eloquence is matched only by the power of your statement. I cannot recall a post that has ever moved me so profoundly. Again, thank you.
Sincerely,
Robert M. Murray
I am sure Taters concerns about service members from FL and MI being disenfranchised are sincere.
I beleive these concerns are misdirected in two ways.
1.)I beleive those serving want their voting rights worried about no more (or less) than any citizens’.
2.) The people most responsible for this debacle are the leaders of the FL and MI Democratic parties. (From my very basic understanding of political party legalities) The parties,thru their chosen leaders, make up their own rules for selecting candidates. FL and MI party officals chose to defy the party rules and their states are paying the price. Sen. Obamas campaign should not be blamed for this ridiculous situation. Likewise, if the so called “super delegates” make Sen. Clinton the winner, Obama supporters should have their club rules changed for next time.
Sincerely, Kyle Young
No doubt, but the commander in chief decides the future of the war, and the future of the vet, directly.
So to further disenfranchise them is an act of career suicide for Dean, and Pelosi.
I don’t know if this refers to the metaphor of “San Francisco” directly, but I have never observed any group of people unaware of their complete absence of power, thinking they’re players.
Never.
Couldn’t have said it better myself, Simon. As a former Bay Area resident for twenty plus years, (a great place to live and I miss it) let me say it’s a hodge podge/mixed-bag there. However, Nancy Pelosi is rather insulated and seemingly out of touch with a significant portion of our party.
Your second argument would carry more weight if it were not for the fact that FL and MI are not the only two states that violated party rules — they are just the only two that are being punished. Surely both voters serving in the armed forces and civilians have the right to expect that party rules will not be applied in such an arbitrary fashion so as to disenfranchise so many voters and so many potential electoral votes.
Yes!
I am not aware of the other states’ issues.If you know of any links (or particular state situations,that I could search), I would appreiciate them. Thanks, Kyle Young
to Kyle Young to quote you..”2.) The people most responsible for this debacle are the leaders of the FL and MI Democratic parties”
you are wrong./.please go do some research before you regurgitate the DNC talking points!!
you are wrong!