Hillary and Bosnia [Updated]
By NoQuarter on March 25, 2008 at 1:53 PM in Hillary Clinton
I hope that some intrepid reporter points out to Sinbad that the KEY reason he felt so safe on that trip with Hillary was the extremely effective protection he received from (1) the U.S. military as well as (2) the U.S. Secret Service. Without their sharp-eyed protection (look at how they are surrounded by phalanxes of troops) and a great deal of advance planning, it would have been dangerous as hell — and neither of those superbly trained protectors can ever 100% guarantee the safety of any situation. Any situation. Particularly a WAR ZONE.
1996 Clinton Bosnia Trip (CBS News):
This not only shows that the trip had its hazards (more on that below, including her misstatement), but it also shows how — in one very vivid example — for over 16 years, she has been around the world, on front lines and in the most remote and bleak parts of the globe, as has been well-documented throughout this blog, and in her Wikipedia biography (which is an extraordinary reading experience, and cemented my OWN support for her candidacy). [The UPDATE is at the end of the story.]
Hillary recently misspoke about her trip to Bosnia. She accurately describes the trip in her book, Living History:
‘Due to reports of snipers in the hills around the airstrip, we were forced to cut short an event on the tarmac…’ “Security conditions were constantly changing in the former Yugoslavia, and they had recently deteriorated again. Due to reports of snipers in the hills around the airstrip, we were forced to cut short an event on the tarmac with local children, though we did have time to meet them and their teachers and to learn how hard they had worked during the war to continue classes in any safe spot they could find. … We were then off to the fortified American base at Tuzla, where over two thousand American, Russian, Canadian, British, and Polish soldiers were encamped in a large tent city.” [Living History, p. 343]
Contemporaneous news accounts confirm that Hillary’s trip to Bosnia was a dangerous situation:
Hillary’s trip to Bosnia marked the first time since Eleanor Roosevelt that a first lady traveled to a potential combat zone. Accompanied by singer-songwriter Sheryl Crow and comedian Sinbad, Mrs. Clinton traveled to this northwestern Bosnian town on a morale-boosting tour for the 18,500 U.S. troops participating in the NATO-led peacemaking operation. She heard a poem of peace from a Bosnian girl and praised U.S. troops for ’showing what American leadership is.’…This trip to Bosnia marks the first time since Roosevelt that a first lady has voyaged to a potential combat zone. During World War II, Roosevelt toured the devastated streets of London and the southwestern Pacific, bringing cheer to U.S. troops. [Washington Post, 3/26/96]
Hillary was ‘protected by sharpshooters’ in a ‘military zone’ when she visited troops in Bosnia. “Protected by sharpshooters, Hillary Rodham Clinton swooped into a military zone by Black Hawk helicopter Monday to deliver a personal ‘thank you, thank you, thank you’ to U.S. troops. ‘They’re making a difference,’ the first lady said of the 18,500 Americans working as peacekeepers in Bosnia. Mrs. Clinton became the first presidential spouse since Eleanor Roosevelt to make such an extensive trip into what can be considered a hostile area, though others have visited hot spots…” [Charleston Gazette, 3/26/96]
::::::::::::::::::::::::
From her Wikipedia biography:
Hillary Clinton traveled to 79 countries during this time,[151] breaking the mark for most-travelled First Lady held by Pat Nixon.[152] In a September 1995 speech before the Fourth World Conference on Women in Beijing, Clinton argued very forcefully against practices that abused women around the world and in the People’s Republic of China itself,[153] declaring “that it is no longer acceptable to discuss women’s rights as separate from human rights”[153] and resisting Chinese pressure to soften her remarks.[151] She was one of the most prominent international figures at the time to speak out against the treatment of Afghan women by the Islamist fundamentalist Taliban that had seized control of Afghanistan.[154][155] She helped create Vital Voices, an international initiative sponsored by the United States to promote the participation of women in the political processes of their countries.[156]
TIP: Go to the actual Wikipedia bio page to access the links in that paragraph.
:::::::::::::::::::
UPDATE: Joe Klein on CNN’s AC360 last night:
JOE KLEIN, COLUMNIST, “TIME”: Well, actually, tonight, I had dinner with someone who was on that plane…
COOPER: Sinbad?
KLEIN: … with Hillary Clinton.
(LAUGHTER)
KLEIN: And — and the fact is that they were told that there was — that they had to take evasive action because of sniper fire, one of those precipitous landings that a lot of us have — have taken, but, on the ground, there was obviously no problem.
It’s a war story, and — and she exaggerated it. And it doesn’t speak well of her. And it’s very un-Hillary like. But could I just, for the sake of the fact that we’re in silly season now, and everybody — all these candidates are totally exhausted, just plead for charity, not only for her, but for the Obama supporters who have said embarrassing things in the next segment and…
(LAUGHTER)
KLEIN: … for John McCain a week ago?
I mean, these are not the important issues in the election. The important issues are two wars, an economic crisis, and — and the need for energy independence.
COOPER: Yes, but, you know, there are a lot of folks out there who — I guess, in this case, it’s probably more Obama supporters — and, clearly, the Obama campaign says this is important. This is a candidate who has talked about her role in the Northern Ireland peace agreements and other issues about going to Kosovo and going to Macedonia and negotiating on behalf of Kosovo refugees.
You think this is all, Joe, just part of silly season?
KLEIN: I think that there is — that being first lady really isn’t the greatest credential for being commander in chief. But that’s something that we have known in the past.
The question is whether you blow up these little exaggerations that everybody makes, including candidates, to the point where it obscures the real issues in the campaign. I’m willing to give her a break on this one, even though, as I said, it’s very much unlike her, and it’s clearly her telling a war story.
I like Klein’s comments. While he is critical, he is also fair. And he points out the fatigue factor as well as the far worse, and cruel, comments by Obama’s campaign staff.
It’s astonishing to me the exacting detail that Obadroids subject Hillary to at the same time they let Obama’s outright prevarications pass through a channel the breadth of the Pacific Ocean.
I’d not have wanted to visit Bosnia at that time. Afterall the Serbs killed Archducke Franz Ferdinand triggering the world wars that scarred our century, so they were no innocents as far as assassination goes.
Also she’s visiting the troops. Seems kinda rough to bag on her for doing that. She didn’t need to go doing that sort of tour of forward base camps.
Someone needs to post that picture of Tony Snow or whoever that was flying in Iraq. He looked like he needed to puke. Tell me he wasn’t terrifed. I don’t think that helicopter was under actual fire at the tiem either.
If Obama had been flying into a combat zone, I imagine he would embellish it.At least Hillary has a war story. Head of subcommitttee on NAFTA has not ever visited Afghanistan.
Like Sir Harry Flashman VC KG i’d have politely declined the invite to Bosnia and give the invitee to the expedition a swift kick in the pants for ruining by carousing and gambling time. What? Me is a muddy bloody field? It’ll ruin me cherrypicker togs me old son.
You mean this one?
Its a great shot.
http://img265.imageshack.us/img265/694/snowandbartlettthumbnz0.jpg
Obama aleady embellishes his past, but if nobody calls him on it, its useless and if they do, “its an orchestrated campaign by Hillary Clinton to destroy him”
I do believe a mashup of Hillary striding through the mud of Bosnia contrasted with Senator SnakeOil bounding around the Oprah set in his $15,000 suit would drive the point home.
Have we elected a President since WWII who had never been to Europe?
What that you say?
Oh….yeah….
Does anyone know what Barack Obama was doing in 1996? I ask, because right now he is vacationing although his Senate committee has still not held a single hearing. Until now the reason was that he didn’t have time for it, what with campaigning and all. Now he doesn’t have time because he’s vacationing? I suppose we should at least be grateful he’s not cutting brush in Texas.
What does this man have to recommend him? Strength of character is definitely not on the list.
“Age 35
November
Elected to the Illinois Senate
Did not face a Republican opposition”
oh yeah, he was campaigning all year.
This was the year Rezko donated “between $10,000 and $15,000 for Obama’s first election, in 1996, to the Illinois Senate”
http://www.suntimes.com/news/politics/obama/844455,CST-NWS-obama15.article
Nice try to change the subject. Hillary gets caught telling a 4-pinnochio lie, and all you can do is whine about Obama’s well-deserved break? Clearly, Hillary’s the one who lacks character. Any other candidate in her position would have dropped out by now. But not Hillary — she’s entitled to be President.
“But not Hillary — she’s entitled to be President.”
Can you express yourself without a meme here?
You even plagarize WaPo comments like “4-pinnochio lie”…goddamn folks think for your fucking selves instead of having Kos and Obama Talking Points as your cannon.
If she lacks character then why is she still standing up after all the years of attacks on her? Obama gets criticism because he wants to be President, and you have the audacity to say…she feels entitled? She’s working her ass off. She didn’t give up because people like me said, DON’T YOU DARE GIVE UP ON US.
You lack character because you see your hatred for her but don’t realize she represents US, those of us who voted for her, who almost didn’t get a chance to vote for her, those of us who didn’t get a chance to vote for John Edwards, Dennis Kucinich, or whever we wanted.
You lack character because you want Obama to be crowned the fucking king when he hasn’t won the total delegates necessary.
You lack character because instead of having a substantive take on the issue (whats my fucking word count now) you have to engage in meme spills that make you almost indistinguishable from the other obama supporters who simply want to win…and you say she feels Entitled?
I don’t whine about “Obama’s well-deserved break”, my own representative is on Spring Break too, god damn pay attention…but I will hold him in contempt when you see him lounging in St. Thomas while the people up and down the street from me are struggling to put gas in their tanks, food on their tables and keep their dignity up while our economy crashes.
His disposition and that of Mrs. Obama is no different than the French Royalty circa 1789..and we know how that turned out. Its nice to see him be lauded by Jeremiah Wright as, “HE’S NOT RICH”, yet he is rich compared to most of the people I know. “He’s NOT RICH” But he is compared to the average income of americans after the first 1000 wealthiest are removed from blowing the bell curve.
Viola, I don’t speek in memes, are you going to say I have no character too?
Character….what the hell would you know about character writing like you do?
What is your opinion without having the WaPo 4 pinnochios telling you what to think? When were you in Bosnia? And when did your memory become perfect? I bet you all I have that I could make your memory flub up too if I asked you questions about events, even significant ones from 12 years ago.
I forgive you for your trespass and your dismissive smirk, but you’re acting like a fucking parrot right now, SQUAWK and you can do better than that.
enough with the memes.
March 2007
Except he wasn’t a Constitutional Law Professor. He was a senior lecturer. Not a professor. There’s a difference and he knew it. Does that mean, gasp, that Senator Obama lacks character? Or is this just another instance of what’s sauce for the goose is excusable for the gander?
Thank you. It’s unbelievable that this is even an issue. While Hillary was flying into war zones what was Obama doing? Cozying up to his minister/mentor trying to find his identity so he could run for political office in Chicago?
It’s an issue because Hillary made up a story about being shot at, and broadcast it to the whole world. That’s what happens when politicians make things up, and get caught.
Do you realize how pathetic you are with this?
Go on, please keep at it that will take you far.
In the meantime, a great majority of the American people will focus on Obama’s disgraceful association with Jeremiah Wright for all of his adult life.
And Tony Rezko, and (there is more; sit tight Will).
I actually had no idea, she had toured a peacekeeping operation like that. She’s standing outside too. When Bush went to Baghdad he was in a mass hall with a rubber turkey.
So in around about way, it’s nice to see she cared enough to visit the deployed troops. It’s a shame that the press are running with this garbage.
Has anyone on here done a tour of an active peacekeeing base while a civilian? I thought not.
If it was so dangerous to be there, then why did she bring Chelsea along? Was she endangering her daughter too?
Face it. Hillary’s a liar with a weak record and little earned experience. Being the wife of the President doesn’t count, especially when she thoroughly botched the only significant task she was given — bringing about universal health care.
I’m not the one making up stories about how I got shot at.
Will, someone is looking for you at your site.
Hey, Andy, I’ll give it to you–you got me yesterday!
She’s not making up anything.
Although if you were ever shot at and it missed, you would hear something like a bee and if it passed by your face you’d feel a funny tingling warm sensation on your cheek. If it got real close it’s like being next to an element.
If you wish to belittle an effort to visit troops to see conditions on the ground and have her place heself in danger (standing arond in forward base in Bosnia without armour or a pisspot counts well enough) then go ahead and be a cad. Your natural level of gallantry exposed for all to see.
Salo - “she’s not making anything up”???
“I remember landing under sniper fire. There was supposed to be some kind of a greeting ceremony at the airport, but instead we just ran with our heads down to get into the vehicles to get to our base.”
–Hillary Clinton, speech at George Washington University, March 17, 2008.
Anyway, doesn’t matter… you folks aren’t going to concede the reality of the situation anyway.
It doesn’t matter, Kevin. Didn’t you hear that WWI started in Bosnia? I mean, gosh, who but only the bravest First Lady in the universe would be tough enough to go there?
What’s more ridiculous: the story Hillary made up about being shot at, or her claim that it was administration policy to send the First Lady to locations that were too dangerous for the president?
It’s an odd week when the most rational statement is coming from Sinbad:
“What kind of president would say, ‘Hey, man, I can’t go ’cause I might get shot so I’m going to send my wife…oh, and take a guitar player and a comedian with you.’”
It’s no small thing. I didn’t even know she had done a tour like that. It was a pleasant surprise to find she actually took the time to visit the benighted sodden place.
I’d have avoided the dump like the plague. Troops or not. Photo op or not.
who is you folks? I think she’ll probably lose the primary. I’ve thought so since the day after supertuesday.
Speak for yourself. I don’t particularly care a whit if she said she thought she was iunder the threat of fire or under fire.
Obama’s a world class dissembler in his own right. He’s doing badly enough for himself already and the press are ready to turn on his skinny arse.
“the press are ready to turn on his skinny arse.”
Anyone who has followed the news the last three weeks knows they already have.
not yet. They have plenty left over.
As this site has been pointing out for a few months.
OK, then why hasn’t anyone else corroborated that there was actual sniper fire?
Will,
Based on comments here I may be one of the very few people here who remembers Kosovo and Bosnia. I watched it on TV news for years. There was always sniper fire and suspected snipers in the hills all over that area during that time. Even after the cease fire.
I remember one heart-breaking story of a man and his son shopping for food on a Saturday morning when they were shot at They were trapped for hours. A TV crew caught it all on tape.
It was a very dangerous place.
So Hillary’s story sounds about right, the video and news accounts in this story confirm that.
Only Obamabots could take a story of the First Lady and her daughter going into a war zone to show support and thank the troops who serve US and make it appear tacky.
[expletive deleted] to all Obamabots for this. Shame on you.
It’s the first truly rovian attack i’ve seen. It’s also truly destructive to Democratic success stories like Bosnia and Kosovo. I’m a bit pissed off about this.
What kind of crazy lady brings her daughter into a “very dangerous place”? Oh, right. Hillary.
No, you only make up stories in regard to Obama’s pseudo heroics, pseudo hysterics and pseudo achievements.
Yawn.
yeah yeah yeah…
Poor thing.
Now she’s making up stories? If she’s not allowed to misspeak, then neither is Obama. After NAFTA, Iraq, and Wright, tell me who’s the great story teller of them all?
So let me see if I’m tracking your reasoning Andy.
This is what Hillary said - repeatedly, as way of pointing out how she’d be “tested under fire” and was ready to be Commander in Chief (and don’t waste time trying to divert attention by focusing on my phrasing)
“I remember landing under sniper fire. There was supposed to be some kind of a greeting ceremony at the airport, but instead we just ran with our heads down to get into the vehicles to get to our base.”
–Hillary Clinton, speech at George Washington University, March 17, 2008.
Now… you want to say that she didn’t lie, and that this is a non-issue???
Then you want to start talking about personal associations (rather than addressing the topic at hand). Okay fine, as if the GOP is ready to drop a ton of questionable contacts and activities on her? Please… ROFLMAO
Kevin: this is your reasoning.
Clearly, you are obviously not tracking my reasoning. In addition, your ranting doesn’t even have any logic to it. But that’s okay, I understand everyone has its limitations.
“But that’s okay, I understand everyone has its limitations”
LOL, evidently my friend. Evidently…
Glad you accept it Kevin. That’s always a good start. Keep on playing.
you missed my point, but that’s okay
For the life of me, for 3 threads now you have not made one to miss.
And if you can’t your point there is zero reason to be a condesending igit.
Your “point” must not have been that important Kevein or one would think it would NOT be ok.
This is like Gore’s FEMA lie.
Inconsequential.
Gore’s FEMA “lie” was hardly “inconsequential”. That statement, along w/a few others, cost him several crucial weeks of terrible press in the fall of 2000, and defined him–unfairly–as a pathological liar in the MSM.
You’re a troll. No politician can keep their artful dissembling straight all the time.
It’s an inconsequential discrepancy and can be explained that she landed under the threat of fire.
Now of course, she’s no innocent here, she buried Kerry in 2006 when he made a crack about getting stuck in Iraq–He clearly meant that that dumb bastard Bush had been a cstudent and had gotten us stuck in Iraq–so she’s getting some comeupance for her own ruthlessness when she damaged Kerry’s clunky joke.
However, a tour of the field in Bosnia is a credit to her. Obama will be laughed at mercilessly if he’s touring the field now.
“It’s an inconsequential discrepancy and can be explained that she landed under the threat of fire.”
So how is it like Gore’s “lie”, which burned him irretrievably?
Look. This is swiftboating the main accomplishemnt of the Clinton yeahs. They settled the Yugoslavian question.
Gore was hurt by a press corps that was hell bent on selecting Bush.
They knew it was all bullshit, just as youknow this is rubbish.
Bosnia was dangerous enough at the time to be woried about a head of state doing a tour of American FOBs.
Salo said: “Gore was hurt by a press corps that was hell bent on selecting Bush.”
You have a strange vision of recent electoral history.
Gore could have yawned and he would have received weeks of bad press for it. Twisting and mocking a minor misstatement by a press that abhors real democracy and insists on picking its favorite nominee is not the fault of the candidate, but the fault of the press and those who cheer the press on, instead of demanding that the press report facts and remain balanced.
Some are BUTTERFLYS..
…Some Are MOTHS….
tracking your reasoning
Kevin, I posted this for you before but has not sunk in apparently.
Did you see how CLOSE everyone was to the bunker in the video clips? You know that large structure with sand bags and gun slots?
Did you notice how some service members were facing out?
Have you ever done a corkscrew landing? Ever have to hard Crab one over a “runway” on approach?
From personal experience, I can tell you it is not a good thing to have any gun pointed at you or be told you may get shot at.
And when a captain tells you to get in the cockpit ’cause it is “bullet proof”, you do what you are told.
So while you are stuck on word semantics those people in that party were told to stay frosty. Got it?
The Obvious Impression I am getting out of
all this BOSNIA Nonsense..is that this is a
ROVIAN TYPE TACTIC..by The OBAMA CAMPAIGN MACHINE..
Strategy..?? Send OBAMA of of the USA..for a Undeserved rest on taxpayer Time..& Dollar..since he is a GOVERNMENT EMPLOYEE.
Who ISSUES His Checks..??
So..Get him out of here..For POLITICAL REASONS…In the Hope the PESTOR WRIGHT
Issue will Die down..No Press conferences..
Then..Create a MINOR NON EVENT ISSUE like Hillary in Bosnia..Feed it to the media..demand some equal time..Get some Play..and hope the Pestor rong issue will go away when Obama gets Back..tanned and rested..
Thew POINT Is…BOTH Hillary and Chelse went into a COMBAST WAR Zone..brought some entertainment for the Troops..Went up to the front Lines..With TROOPS on Combat Status..Whwere..she indeed potentially could have been a TARGET..
The Point is..Hillary has traveled into so many TROUBLE Spots in the World…She may have had an incident going into a hOT zone..where there was gunfire..and extra Security measures were necessary..That IS Possible that .She has that Incident confused with BOSNIA..Has anyone thought of that..??
The POINT is..”SHE” was… THERE ..She EARNED My RESPECT..Leadership & CIC Qualified all the Way..
Did I see Laura Bush in a Combat Zone..Did I see the Bush Kids.. ??..
Funny…since Daddy is such a WAR Monger..You would think they would at least
they would visit Field hospitals like hillary..or VA Hospitals here at Home,..be More PUBLIC..More ACTIVE..Red Cross or something..
You wont find any Elanors or Hillarys in the Republican camp..They send other people and other peoples kids for the Dirty work..
KEVIN…WILL.. Tell us about all your Combat Experiences..Tell us about Obamas Combat Experiences..How many Field Hospitals He has been too..How many Service men and Women He has Thanked..or Gotten benefits for..??
OH..I Forgot..He Doesn’t have Time..To Pass Legislation..Hold any hearings..Travel to trouble Spots in the WORLD..
Your PEOPLES HERO..is too Busy Running for Office..Doing Real estate deals..or going to “CHURCH”..to Hear PESTOR Wright preach
Hate..and Racism..and teach it to Obamas kids too..
Kevin..Will..I’ll bet you get out of bed every moring in this war Torn country of ours..Hope the or UN has sent you some Food..Hope Today is the day you and your faamily don’t get blow up by asuicide bombers at the Market..
Kevin,..Will..Freepers..
I’ll bet you get up every day of your Poor MISERABLE American Lifes and Say..
“GOD DAMN THE UNITED STATES”
Kevin..
I made he ROVIAN Comment..
Talk about Exxagerating Comments..Just go back to the BAMA BUNKER..sniper..and drink more Kool` Aid..You are running Low..
do you know what KEVIN means in Hungarian.??
What does Kevin mean in Hungarian?
what is kevin in hungarian ???
.
…………..ELMEBAJOS…………..
Give it a rest. The fact remains she exaggerated the situation to play up how she’d faced danger and was ready to be commander in chief. PERIOD. She later embellished the story again to play up the danger. PERIOD.
Now she’s been forced to backtrack and say she mispoke.
Just accept it for what it is.
As for Teak’s follow on statement that this is part of a Rovian tactic…. um please, shall we compare the actions and statements of both campaigns? Saying that there are at least 2 patriotic americans running… (Hill and McCain); Saying that either McCain or Hillary (but obviously not Obama) was ready to be commander in chief…
KEVIN..
Did YOU Hear Him Say HILLARY & McCAIN..??
Where is that Video..Did I miss it..??
Speaking of MIS~SPEAK..You must have a Masters Degree in it..
What’s that story that it was too dangerous for Pres. Clinton to go to Tuzla, so he sent his wife and daughter?
That’s hard to believe…
dooner, thats because you ignored the opening comment, “we used to joke that…” which means you don’t take the comments afterwards as literal and serious.
And the joke was based on the fact (AS NOTED BY THE CBS CLIP ABOVE) that Hillary went farther into dangerous territory in this trip than President Clinton went it…care to watch the CBS CLIP UP THERE? or will you now conveniently dismiss CBS when it says.
The side column says:
“This report by Sharyl Attkisson makes NO MENTION OF THE DANGEROUS CONDITIONS.”
but in the report (bolds are my emphasis)
“She and her daughter Chelsea toured the FRONTLINE outpost”
“Officers say this is ONE OF THE MOST DANGEROUS PLACES where US Forces are operating. THE PRESIDENT HIMSELF NEVER MADE THIS FAR INSIDE BOSNIA when he visited in January.”
“separates Serbs from Muslims in a place SURROUNDED BY MINES”
soldier: “thats about 10 to 15 Thousand Mine Fields”
“but she organized this trip herself”
Nice try sport - two completely different instances, but since you’re feigning ignorance of the facts - then we’ll just let that slip… like your response re: Rovian…
Could you put that in more coherent English please… I gave up talking Bush-speak long ago. LOL
Obama is NOT ready to be commander in chief of ANYTHING.
That is based on facts and evidenced by his utter contempt and complete lack of knowledge of the military. He got punk-ed in the worst way by McPeak and he does no it, even now…
I don’t want Obama anywhere near the football. He has ZIP knowledge o f military affairs. He is even clueless on Constitutional Law, which is surprising given his education at Harvard.
As for Teak’s follow on statement that this is part of a Rovian tactic….
Now I am laughing AT you…that is funny. This little ol’ kite makes Rovian statements? Should I be flattered? “What’s the matter you don’t like brown people?”..that is a statement by Rove. Then again, I am not a seditious traitor like Rove, so *uck you very much!!
my what an ego. I didn’t say you made rovian comments, do you even retain memory of the statements you make… forget the fact that you can actually read the thread, follow your statement and then my or any responses before you start ranting again?
ehem…kevin, you might want to check that ego of yours at the door before pointing out egos. it takes an ego to know an ego.
sincerely,
my ego
.
…….ELMEBETEG………….
….WORD SEMANTICS..KEVIN & ELMEBAJOS…
Kevin..I saw you in a video here..You were the Hedge Hog that Took the Deepest Snort of the Obama Sponge..Went crazy..
Its the New ECSTACY..for you old Crack Sniffers..any Excuse for a New HIGH…
The Only CRABS Kevin knows about are
STONE CRABS..Thats Why He walks Sideways..
See this is the fucking problem:
“Hillary made up a story about being shot at”
No, YOU MADE THAT STORY UP, because you cannot fathom the concept of Fair Witness.
Show me one example, just one where she said, “i was being shot at”.
You can’t, because she never said that.
It is the highest form of hypocrisy to call her an exaggerator when you are engaged in a whopper of hyperbole yourself.
How can you hold her, Obama, or others accountable if you exaggerate about the exaggerations. I mean, give me a fucking break here…do you have any sense of credibility when you tell her, “you better be spot on with your account” but then can distort her account to go from “landed under sniper fire” to “Hillary made up a story about being shot at”?
I don’t have the time right this moment to search all the examples I’ve read in the last few days of over the top hyperbole, but if her story last Monday was bullshit, people like you are guilty of even more bullshit than she is.
HYPERBOLE is your problem too
You have to understand the mind of the rovian obmabots.
See, they can turn, paraphrasing, “Obama’s anti war position is a fairy tale” into a ranting racist attack by Bill Clinton on Senator Elmer Gantry. It is a scary place, inside that twisted mind devoid of rational thought.
oh I do Newport, but thanks for covering my back.
Yes, the 8 years of dealing with Bushies had taught me well what its like to argue with the mindnumbing bots. Let us not forget there are still about 28% of Americans who refuse to see Traitor Bush and Traitor Cheney for what they are.
Right on to the comments above!
And would someone please tell Sinbad that ONE big reason he was so safe was because of the extremely effective protection he received from the U.S. military as well as the U.S. Secret Service.
Jesus.
Susan:
You didn’t have any trouble finding the facts concerning this non-issue, and you didn’t have to go to any sources that could be labled as “pro-Hillary”. If you and Hillary’s campaign could easily source the facts, then the Obama campaign could have done so as well, but misrepresentation is hardwired into their soul, as far as Hillary is concerned, and this issue, when viewed objectively, only reinforces Hillary’s claims of experience, and demonstrates the threadbare record of same for Obama. Hey Barack, at least she made trrips to Europe other than a stopover on the way back from a vacation. At least she is focussed on her campaign and the American people, and is not lounging in a cabana in the Caribbean, reading the labels on tubes of sun block (perhaps practicing for a windsurfing competition with Kerry).
Their entire campaign is now about hitting Hillary below the belt.
“Hope” and “change” are so yesterday.
The press have it in for her. That’s what it is about. There she is doing a tour of a combat zone (Peace keeping) and she’s getting whaled on for it. I’d have declined a visit (thanks very much, but the serbs were a thuggish lot) if wasn’t in the armed forces.
Exactly, you’d think they would pick up on it by now, but they don’t.
Again, Obama’s team is the hamas of the information wars, I guess that’s what happens when you get all that second and third rate talent, everyone else’s loser rejects.
Critical thinking skills, and such, why templates don’t work, you know….
BTW, in viewing this issue, it would appear Clinton didn’t misspeak, at all.
She actually highlighted the danger she was in, her courage in traveling to that godforsaken, wartorn land. If she’s going to send you, son, she’ll go, too, and take her KID with her, none of this war is for the poor people BS.
Same with her travels to Iraq, as a senator…
Double pow!
Rob, the FACTHUB link from the original post *is* a site run by the HRC campaign. I’d say that qualifies as “pro Hillary”.
And personally, were I in damage control mode, I wouldn’t use Wikipedia. An open source database constantly under fire for legitimacy.
I don’t disagree, but I also don’t stop at the Hillary Hub or Wiki. I use their sources and go a spot further or ten spots further.
Example:
When BoringYorke of the National Review would smear Plame based on Sen. Kit Bond’s account of the 2002 Senate Intel report, I did my research…not in the papers, but on the phone with the Senate Intel Committee. I read all 536 pages of the report. I then asked the committee who authored the wording itself, and what accounts were taken.
Some of these facts weren’t even available when I called, but over time I did get the info.
So yes, sourcing is the most important part of journalism. But then there is the meme war. These guys who smear Hillary Clinton’s story point to Huffington Pissed who point to a WaPo blog saying “from a reporter who was there”, but the reporter they point to, wasn’t there…he points to someone who might have been there…etc etc.
Then when I continue to suspend believe in any category, I get called a Clinton apologist (not by you, but just saying).
I was told for years that the Clintons were guilty of Whitewater fraud, cattlegate fraud, filegate fraud, travelgate fraud, murding Vince Foster and Ron Brown…i mean, fuck…after a while wouldn’t you finally get immune to the smears too? All that money invested in investigating and NADA, NUNCA, NOTHING…
I looked at this story and said, hey…CBS has a video, Good, but then so many have concluded, improperly in my logical reasoning, that the tape shows the truth…well, no it doesn’t…it shows A TRUTH, not THE TRUTH. And if readers can’t make that distinction, then they aren’t interested in THE TRUTH, but A RELATIVE TRUTH.
I’m interested in knowing what happened as factually close to the event as possible. I’d like to know if the pilot did get orders for evasive flying, if the instructions or comments told to HRC were implying or explicitely stating they were under sniper fire in the region.
Ever been on a C17?
Can you hear sniper fire while in one?
But if someone tells you, as the first hand accounts are saying (and being discounted by those who don’t care for first hand but whatever feeds their convictions) that there were reports of sniper fire.
CNN just had a hack host interview a Clinton supporter and she asked questions on this…all questions were leading, all responses were direct and then she wouldn’t have it. She HAD TO MAKE SURE CLINTON WAS A LIAR. That is her fucking conviction and the guest isn’t necessary except to bolster her Necessary Illusion. This is quack journalism and anyone with any journalistic ethic would see it.
It hurts the citizens of this country and others when they are being spoon fed this garbage about either candidate, about any candidate.
I’ve watched 60 minutes ask a guy, “so you support Obama”, “er, yeah I do, but I have my reservations”, “what are those”, “well he’s a muslim. he swore in on a muslim quran”.
Now that reporter corrected him on that. But I’ve had to even go further to show how people are mistaking Keith Ellison with Barack Hussein Obama. I was quick to make the distinction and the guy said, “oh yeah…the Jefferson quran right?”, “exactly”
But ultimately its up to you to have some integrity in the process. Don’t put your foot on unstable ground and you won’t fall.
And for the record, I personally am not in “damage control mode”, and neither is Susan. If you wish to say that to the Clinton campaign, then contact them.
I know that I’m familiar enough with how accounts change and distort not to go gung-ho for someones head when the facts fit my themes. It takes self control to do so.
The poster of this video states in his discription of it:
Hillary Clinton’s 1996 trip to Bosnia is at the center of a dispute over her statements that her plane came under sniper fire. This report by Sharyl Attkisson makes no mention of dangerous conditions.
Here was my responce:
WTF - The poster of this video says there is no mention of danger. All I see are guns and soldiers wearing body armor. Did you even watch your own video? What do these words mean?
“This is one of the most dangerous places where US forces are operating. The President himself never made it this far inside Bosnia when he visited in January. Camp Elisha is in a so called zone of separation southeast of Tulsa. It’s a place where dangerous conflicts are more likely.”
—– Pretty funny how the Obama koolaid drinkers think this video diminishes Hillary.
“This report by Sharyl Attkisson makes no mention of dangerous conditions.”
Because it is self-evident.
john d, what is self-evident?
Nothing is…only that it doesn’t show her running from the plane to the car.
I’d be ashamed of our troops probably if they scheduled such an event and didn’t clear the perimeter. Have you no sense of the whole of things, or do you just live stuck to the screen?
It was a 20 minute plan, and you’ve seen less than 1 minute. Evident?
Don’t make me pull some propaganda prestidigitation on you. I can convince you of many things by merging audio and video.
I have tapes of George Bush cussing his own mother out that I made by fusing his voice from speeches and they are quite convincing. Fun and Luck go a long way.
But also because you don’t see outside the camera angles, before the camera was on, the conversation in the cockpit, the departure, or other events around this, you make solid conclusions that actually only bolstered already existing beliefs. This isn’t uncommon and has been well written about.
The fact that you trust your eyes so much is actually a great strategic weakness for your thinking. I don’t care if you get it, but it would be nice to know you reconsider your own eyes and ears.
Wasn’t that the stupidest comment by the person who posted the video? Lordy.
I was bemused by the intrepid reporter’s who have been passing judgement on this video.
I was thinking hullo, they’ve all got their pisspots on, Minimis and M16s up the khyber and are resplendent in body armour.
I noticed a sandbagged watchtower with a peevish trooper looking out into the distance too. He’d have liked to have been in warm bed at home with with his girlfriend, I Imagine, or boozing in a saloon.
I know i’d not have wanted to be stationed on that gloo