‘The Gathering Storm’: One Democrat’s Analysis of Anti-Obama Feeling Among Democrats
By Damozel on March 30, 2008 at 10:52 PM in Barack Obama, Democrats, Hillary Clinton, John McCain
Anglachelg has written a brilliant piece on the ‘gathering storm’ of anti-Obama feeling among Hillary Clinton’s supporters. Though I’m on record as urging Dems to band together when the dust settles to prevent a McCain presidency (because anything would be better than a McCain presidency), this post perfectly articulates the anger and frustration of Hillary’s Democratic supporters—-and the seething indignation that both the media and the disingenuous tactics deployed by Barack Obama and his supporters has engendered.
Obama has rudely lost the good regard of Democrats like me. The hysteria and hate of the elite punditocracy who have declared me and my candidate to be illegitimate in an attempt to bully her supporters, while giving him a free ride, cannot be rewarded. The Democratic Party is choosing to declare Hillary voters to be expendable (can’t count your vote if it would change the outcome of the race) and of lesser worth than Obama supporters. And all of this is being viewed with increasing disgust by a growing number of Democratic voters. (Anglachelg).
First, there is the contempt with which the media and Obama supporters in the blogosphere, and subsequently the DNC and some of its prominent representatives, has dismissed her and her supporters as merely an unwarranted obstacle to the inevitable process of crowning Obama king of all the Democrats.
[T]he presumption of the punditocracy that we all know that a Hillary victory cannot be for real….has expanded to include the Democratic Party itself. This crisis brewed for some time, but took form when HRC was not permitted a level playing field in the campaign. The refusal to grant her equal footing may have begun with the MSM, which has always hated her, but they were soon joined by progressive blogs and the other campaigns, producing a phalanx of elite opinion trying to delegitimize her at every step…
To those several million people who support Hillary or who at least regarded her favorably, this pointed attack upon her as a person as well as a candidate, coupled with the relatively gentle treatment granted the other candidates, had the effect of solidifying a great deal of our support. To declare her unworthy of participating, a monster who would “do anything to win,” was seen for what it was, straightforward demonization of a perfectly acceptable candidate, one with a deep well of support and an enviable record of public service. We simply don’t accept the elite framing of our candidate. (Anglachelg)
This is precisely the process by which I evolved from someone with a slight leaning toward Hillary—it took me 20 minutes to choose between her and Obama (not that it matters, as I am a Floridian). But to have my choice—and my candidate—written off with airy contempt or with a barrage of harsh and unwarranted slaps offended, and eventually, infuriated me. Many of those will surely wonder in the future what got into them..
For one thing, it is their relentless efforts to delegitimize and demonize Hillary for the benefit of Obama that have been most damaging to Obama.
[A]mong HRC supporters, the effect of this particular campaign has been to erode the legitimacy not of our candidate but of Obama. As polling shows, his presumption that he automatically inherited her supporters has been proved untrue, in great part because he assumed that no one could really support that “monster”…. (Anglachelg)
And it is precisely the contempt and disdain with which his campaign—and many of its supporters—have treated Hillary and her supporters that has created the current wave of revulsion against Obama among Democrats who favor Hillary.
[R]ank and file Democrats who vote for Hillary…are the bulk of the Democrats who voted (as opposed to all who participate), people for whom being a Democrat is a part of their personal as well as political identity….. There is some anger here over the treatment of Hillary, but even more it is rejection of Obama himself as a candidate due to his own actions and statements….
The more they hear, the less they are inclined to support….The sneer about Ohio voters who failed to vote for him as “Archie Bunkers” was a slur that every solid Democrat understands. He was calling those voters stupid racist bigots. Then we got the Wright controversy, which has simply added more fuel to the perception of Obama as an elitist liberal who does not honor his country or respect his countrymen. (Anglachelg)
If Obama gets the nomination—as I am repeatedly told he must—the disenfranchisement of voters in Florida and Michigan threatens his candidacy in the general election.
In these places, Hillary voters are being written off, dismissed as illegitimate voices in the process. The insistence on only one aspect of the rules, the penalty, while ignoring the full set of rules that could be used to manage the situation is eroding Obama’s claims to legitimacy because people don’t care about arcane party rules. They want their votes to count. The acts by Obama to prevent a revote have done nothing to increase his standing with ordinary voters, let alone strong Clinton partisans. This does not make him attractive to people who will have to switch their allegiance should Hillary not be the nominee. Conversely, her insistence on having votes counted will earn her greater legitimacy as well as benefit her with extra delegates. (Anglachelg)
Obama illustrates the hubris of a candidate swept along by his own hype to run before he’d paiu even a modicum of dues.
In Obama’s set piece speeches he excels at tapping into the leftwing version of the patriotic narrative, about equality, justice and opportunity. This was the power of his keynote speech in 2004. But the promise of that speech has not been present in the candidate. The spousal unit sums it up in a single sentence – he ran too soon. He did not give himself the time to distance himself from the Chicago mess (political, financial, religious) and put some substantive national level public service under his belt. In some ways, the Chicago power base has insulated Obama from the conundrums of running a Democratic campaign in a centrist nation. (Anglachelg)
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WOW! That was so great an analysis! Spot on! It is exactly how I feel. and many of us feel exactly the same. Obama and his supporters are such fools. THEY WILL REAP THE WHIRLWIND.
I am a fool because I can think for myself, I have my own mind, I don’t have to conform to how “you” think I should be, I can have the same long term goals, ie, the economy, healthcare… and yet be different, because of the experiences I have had to overcome and endure, because I don’t think their be a she-seat without merit (which is gender favoritism), I believe the war in Iraq should not only be over, but also that we never sholud have been there and what other reasons???
Damozel: Thank you, thanks you for posting an entry from Anglachel’s Journal. I LOVE her site and I’m so glad it is catching on with more people in the blogosphere. I was actually the person who started posting her blog widely on both here, The Confluence, and Taylor Marsh. I’ve been reading her since January and I look forward to reading her posts each day. Bookmark her site if you haven’t done so already!
The best part of completely giving up DailyKos, TPM and AmericaBlog was discovering new blogs.
NoQuarterUSA, Taylor Marsh, Anglachel, RiverDaughter’s The Confluence, and TalkLeft have more than made up for what I thought I’d miss when I left those other places.
This post from Anglachel’s Journal definitely stands out as one of the most brilliant posts I’ve ever read ANYWHERE.
Agreed, (and I suppose they will become corrupt too, as time goes along, notoriety tends to do that), but in the meantime, there are so many talented interesting people out there with so much to say.
The Confluence, and Taylor Marsh (and our Susan), among others, are strong intelligent women who have been kept silent for too long these past eight years, highly intelligent women with unique perspectives, always seem to take a back seat to men of lesser talents, and intellect. Their perspective is a welcome relief, (compared to the blogger boyz, those would be consultants), opening up new avenues of thought, showing new ways of thinking to address these myriad problems the country is facing.
And the women seem more tolerant, too, far less anxious to censor, when the arguments get rough, better able to recognize talent that doesn’t come in a box.
I know there are others, too, but this move away from K$$ has been incredibly beneficial.
(This goes for Larry, and others, I don’t mean to signal out women, I’ve been struck, though, by all the female bloggers, democratic, or formerly democratic, who are making uniquely significant contributions,breaking from the mold).
I can tell that Anglachel’s Journal will not become corrupt. She is not out in search for fame and fortune. In a way I wish we knew her identity (I’m pretty sure Anglachel is not her real name) and I think she deserves to make money from her posts which I have read everyday since January. She’s such a good writer. But she has no adspace on her site even though she could probably make a small amount each month. She is doing this because she is a political science graduate who loves Hillary and this is her journal she has chosen to share with all of us. People like Anglachel should be writing for the NYTimes, not idiots like Maureen Dowd and Bob Herbert.
There are as few more websites you might like: Sugar N Spice, Hillary Is 44, and HinesSight. Read and enjoy!
Go read her piece on the Jacobin left. My son keeps referring to it as his favorite political blog post ever.
check out savagepolitics too.
i’ll take mccain over obama any day.
me, too. and the obama bloggers’ calling me an idiot, murderer, etc., for doing so just make me more firm in my resolve.
There is no evidence that Obama would actually end the war or anything else these people say he is for. None at all. He promised to help those Maytag employees. He promised to help those citizens living near Exelon. He promised to help those people living in his district. Past behavior is a damned good indication as to what his future behavior would be.
Exactly. He is the say everything do nothing candidate.
No thanks, I will stick with my girl. McCain will win my state easily, so I don’t need to feel guilty about my write-in vote. Though if I felt McCain needed me, I would vote for him, though it would make my stomach turn.
How can we believe a liar? Obama doesn’t even care what he says anymore because the media will still stand by him. So the people in Ohio who didn’t vote for him are Archie Bunkers? Obama is really getting carried away with himself.
In 2 weeks of the Rev Wright story Obama has disowned him, loved him like an uncle, said he was present when Wright made the hateful comments. Said he was not present when Wright made his hateful comments. Now he says he doesn’t even know him very well. Just met him a few times. Like Rezko — a 17 year pal that he hardly knows now. Obama doesn’t want to be president because he loves this country. All he wants is the power over us typical white people.
As a lifelong Democrat I will NEVER vote for Obama. If he gets the nomination I will change my registration to Independent and if there is no way I can write in Hillary’s name I will happily vote for McCain. At least McCain knows that the Bataan Death March killed thousands of captured American soldiers during WW2 and is not about Obama’s tiresome primary appearances.
By the way, Obama told a group of young people that he is tired of old women. They have had their turn and he is not interested in their problems. Then there are his anti-gay sentiments, etc etc etc
Please provide links for such comments so that we can pass along to others. Or even print them as flyers for the typical white person crowd in PA, IN,…..
Title it “Why Obama is not a Democrate”.
Spread the words.
well, this is one old woman who’s tired of him.
I feel the same about Hilary, who is running her campaign like a republican…thanks
I said he wouldn’t end the war last summer. Hillary is not going to end it either. It’s just not doable the way they are promising. Yes, the war must end, but for Obama to have been catapaulted into frontrunner status based on this FAIRY TALE, is the height of absurdity. He has absolutely no experience to qualify him as POTUS. He hasn’t been on the scene long enough to know anything.
But don’t take MY WORD for it. His own fired adviser, Samantha Powers said as much. And she was in the inner circle. Why aren’t more people getting this?
I think he’s promised all of America that he’ll Still Respect Us In The Morning.
That’s it.
In the olden days a good chat-up line + hope + and a lot of vague promises >> knees-up, knickers on the floor >> sadder but wiser.
Not that there’s anything wrong with that; it is how most of us got here.
ha!!!
The same for Hilary…sorry I misspoke…
I am sorry but we as Democrat’s need to take a stand. I will not be bullied this time into choosing what the DNC elites and pundits refer to as the “lesser of (2) evils.” I have voted as a Democrat in every election since I became eligible to vote in 1988. I hold an M.A. in international relations. I am also a lesbian. Under no circumstances will I vote for Barack Obama.
I will not hold hands and sing kumbaya this time. If Hillary is not the nominee I will change my party affiliation to Independent. It has been months since I watched the likes of MSNBC or any of the other MSM news outlets. Months ago I cancelled all my podcast subscriptions when even the airwaves became “All Obama all day everyday.” I hope Air America goes under.
Why should I continue to provide these people with job security and health benefits many people in this country do not enjoy? Why should I continue to vote for people who say one thing and do another just because they have a (D) after their names? Getting screwed is getting screwed. It knows no party, race, gender, religion, sexual orientation, or ethnicity.
I will fight for Hillary Clinton to be the party nominee just as hard as I can. I certainly have not given up, nor do I think that it is an impossibility. Nothing worth having is out of reach if you are willing to work hard enough. Certainly the passion of those who feel like I do is palpable on sites like this. I just wanted to make it clear that nothing will dissuade me from my decision to leave the Democratic Party should the DNC elites get their way. Rest assured though, I will make it a life’s pursuit to see that each and everyone of them is thrown out of office!!
Amen to those sentiments
I will not go quietly into this Democratic night-
no more down the ticket party loyalty or donations to DNC DCCC DSCC. If they do not revote MI and FLA it is an illegitimate nominee. They are the ones breaking the party apart by continually denigrating the positions of the Dem base and their chosen candidate, universal health care the latest to fall by the wayside under Kerry’s flapping gums today. This is not the Dem party platform that I signed up for 19 years ago when I turned 18: Obama and the Pelosi, Dean, Kerry titanic favor appeasement in foreign relations and domestic policy both. Indeps will soar to record numbers in August if these elites dont wake up to the reality on the ground with their base voters. and McCranky will SWEEP the GE if they ram this guy through the process by disenfranchising millions of Democrats.
WOW — YES!
I’m pissed — it has always been — forget what you women want . . . there are more important things.
Well NOT anymore.
Obama is a perfect example of forcing the alternative choice on us. He is NOT READY for prime time. And frankly he will NEVER ever be ready.
And yes to your statement about every single person in OFFICE and in positions of POWER who is trying to force this perfect example of male uselessness on women (yet again) forget about getting the support of the majority of women — ever again.
The line has been crossed and we will NOT forget.
The US still doesn’t have an ERA — women have been told to shut up and be quiet.
There is no way I will ever vote for a misogynist male or female — ever again. Obama is the poster boy for misogynists everywhere — along with Teddy Kennedy, and Kerry and Dodd and Richardson and Dean and Donna babe.
Nope — I will not vote Obama.
But I probably won’t ever have to make that decision because Hillary is a fighter and SHE knows that Obama would make a worse wreck of the economy and the wars than Bush has managed.
Also I think the slow motion vetting of Obama is going to yield even more shocks in the days and weeks to come — so Hillary Clinton will be #44!
I hope Donna babe does leave the Democratic Party — either she leaves or millions will be leaving.
What is your reasoning for this again??
Agreed Eurogirl70. I never would’ve imagined a year ago that I would even be considering the Republican candidate but here we are! I have never voted for a Republican. I voted for Kerry despite his many flaws. I was SO excited to be voting for the first viable woman candidate in history. I’ve admired Hillary since college and I knew that she would be the best person to clean up Bush’s mess. Now not only has our gal been shitted on by Obama, his supporters, and the media, but my vote for her in Michigan doesn’t even matter! My vote for the first viable woman presidential candidate doesn’t count and it is because Obama and Dean would rather disenfranchise us than allow Clinton to win this nomination. These guys make me sick. There is no f-ing way I’m voting for Obama and I might leave the Democratic party as well.
This would actually be a great opportunity for the Republicans to court women voters. If McCain’s VP is a woman you can be sure that many more Clintonites than Obama and Dean could’ve guessed would deflect from the Democratic Party and vote for McCain.
Amen. This party no longer speaks for me. Since they are so concerned about who can woo independents, I will become one.
This is the LAST time this woman just does what is best for everyone else. Obama is not best for me - he has walked all over me and other Hillary supporters along with the rest of the DNC, he has been demeaning towards Hillary and her supporters, and I cannot think of a single thing he has accomplished to make life better for others. His greatest accomplishment is a political campaign - that is the height of arrogance.
Obama and his DNC can go to hell.
“Why should I continue to provide these people with job security and health benefits many people in this country do not enjoy? Why should I continue to vote for people who say one thing and do another just because they have a (D) after their names? Getting screwed is getting screwed. It knows no party, race, gender, religion, sexual orientation, or ethnicity.”
Good girl! I’m right there with you. Getting screwed is getting screwed. And unlike some, I will hold my ground. They’re depending on us to fizz out and tow the Party Line by Nov. This is what they are saying amongst themselves. Everything will settle down once Hillary is out of the way.
WRONG!
And do you know why? 1980 and Ted Kennedy giving us the Reagan years. John Kerry letting himself get Swiftboated. Gore not demanding a recount and the Party not supporting him. No impeachment of Bush/Cheney. Howard Dean’s 48 state strategy. Donna Brazile & Dough Wilder leading the clarion call of the AA community to behave like children and riot if biracial Obama doesn’t get the nomination.
I have plenty of reasons and nothing Hillary Rodham Clinton has said or can say is the reason why I am exiting the Party. I want them to look in the fucking mirror and place blame where blame is due.
On THEMSELVES!
yes, yes, yes.
so saddened
>>> And do you know why? 1980 and Ted Kennedy giving us the Reagan years.
And here I thought that I was alone in remembering The Chappaquiddick Lifeguard’s role in bringing us that eight years of horseshit.
“UPSTREAMING” of Income, anyone?
They can’ t fight, bottom line.
Why do you think they’re getting beat, now?
Do you think they LIKE being humiliated, like being seen as second banana?
They don’t, those people have far far too much ego.
They simply arent smart enough to win, never have been, and they’re doing it again with Obama.
SAME exact thing, corporate, and political mediocrity at it’s worst.
And the Republicans are even worse.
The trait is like a subset of the Redneck Will to Fail… it’s the Democratic Party Drive to Martyrdom.
And, too, the Repubs WANT to win more, and know HOW to win more!
Some people don’t know the first nor second thing about fighting…
The Democratic Party is throwing us loyal Democrats under a bus for what they believe are new young Registrants. This will mean that the Party will no longer have to make policy for older
Americans and other groups traditionally identified with the Democratic Party. So we are not leaving the party the party is leaving us. I hope and pray that we will be able to start a third party with the help the the Clintons. This great nation is headed for a Depression and all the media talks about is that skinny charlaton with the slogan CHANGE YOU CAN BELIEVE IN. Change to what? Burkas and Statues proclaiming our love for our leader? No thanks. Make mine Democracy–which is the best form of government if we can keep it.
s. hall, you make a very interesting point. it is not just that the party is telling us the young voters are more important than we are - although they are indeed telling us that. it also indicates the direction their policy initiatives will take, as they pander to the voters they believe are more important. excellent point! wish i’d thought of it/glad you did!
Thank-you Northwest rain,
I agree, it is time to take a stand against the DNC. I too have been a straight ticket Dem voter since 1980. I have voted for every loser the Dem’s have nominated. In essence I have disenfranchised myself since all my votes except for WJC have meant nothing but more Republicans. Now the WJC admin, the only winners for the Dems in almost 30yrs is being smeared and demonized by THE DEMS. What’s the definition of insanity…doing the same thing over and over expecting different results ?
I suggest an e-mail campaign announcing our intention to leave the Dem party and register as an independent. This not an idle threat. If Obama wins the nomination I cannot vote for him. Voting for losers is bad enough, but voting for an complete fraud is the last straw for me.
I keep hearing people on this blog talk about the “DNC elites.” I can’t help shaking my head when I hear this.
A history lesson…
Four years ago many Democrats got angry because we felt like the national party was failing to meet our needs. We felt devastated that there seemed to be no one speaking up for the principles that Democrats had supposedly stood for. We were upset that they voted for things like the tax cuts, NCLB, the Patriot Act, and most glaringly the war in Iraq. We were in awe when a spunky candidate from Vermont had the guts to speak up and say “NO!” We gave him money, we worked for his campaign, in my case I literally shed blood in Iowa when I fell on the ice. We also watched as the party “elite” including the DLC friends of the Clintons, insulted us, and did everything it could to bring our candidate down.
He lost. It was painful and heartbreaking. Did we give up? Did we vote for the Republican and quit the party? Hell no, we got organized. We were driven by core principles that we felt that the Democratic establishment or “elite” were not delivering on - 1) The party should listen to the grassroots 2) Democrats should offer a strong voice of opposition to the Republicans 3) The Democratic party should not automatically cede one corner of this country to the Republicans without a fight and 4) The grassroots should help and encourage strong Democrats to get elected to local positions.
We founded Democratic clubs, we worked to get congresspeople elected in what had been very red districts, we got our people elected as delegates to the state party, we lobbied congress and the senate on numerous issues, and we worked like dogs to get Dean elected to be chair of the DNC. The idea that he was the choice of the “elites” is a joke. They did not want him.
I have hope that MI and FL will eventually be resolved, but if you’re angry at Dean for the way he has handled things, by all means work to change them. Having volunteered for him I am willing to bet that he would even respect you for it. Giving up on the party is easy to do, it’s working for change that is difficult. As an Obama supporter, I’m in for the long haul no matter who the candidate is. Whether we agree or disagree about the direction the party will take I hope that Hillary supporters will fight to fix the party rather than throw in the towel.
Another history lesson…….
I canvassed for George McGovern in West Seattle in 1972 and encountered scorched earth. McGovern had gotten the nomination during the mother of all primary campaigns against the Stop McGovern forces gathered by Jimmy Carter, Scoop Jackson and Hubert Humphrey. The reason he got the nomination is because he wrote the rules that got him his 1729 delegates.
He and the rest of the cherry picked McGovern-Fraser Comission are responsible for the original sin that resulted in this current primary mess. It was a noble experiment that resulted in a 60% loss rate over the next thirty six years. The superdelegates are a quasi-senatorial attempt at a quickie fix it but the whole system should be junked if only we could find one goddamned Democrat with enough brains to come up with the equivalent of the Powell Memo.
I spent the night before the Texas primary calling Texas Democrats on behalf of Hillary Clinton. George McGovern spent the same night calling Texas Democrat party leaders on behalf of Hillary Clinton. I doubt that the irony was lost on us.
That’s the history lesson.
McGovern and I know how this ends……..
While I agree that Obama is the elite’s choice, and that the rank and file Democrats are being fooled on this point, I don’t see how Hillary is going to win if she doesn’t have the vote and/ or delegate total.
By the way, isn’t there a Dem debate before the PA primary?
How can she get the vote when people like Donna Brazille, who could not find her ass out of a paper sack with a map and a flashlight, says that we have a 48-state contest; like she did today on the MSM political parrot shows?
One can only accomplish so much when the powers that be have tied your hands behind your back and now ask you to play the piano?
If Hillary can win the upcoming primaries, after PA, she will close in on the popular vote. We will just have to be vigilant.
That’s about how I see it.
Unfortunately the media have largely circled the wagons around Obama, at least with regards to any criticism from Hillary. That is now see as unfair, vicious, Tonya Harding-like behavior.
By the way, the real point of the TH insult, to me, is the sneering classism. Harding was “white trash”, just like the Clintons.
yes, and they’re basically saying we hillary supporters are also trash.
Who are these “elites” that y’all keep talking about?
Nail meet head. Awesome piece.
I voted for Obama to be my Senator in 2004. Because I chose Hillary over Obama to be my President, I’ve been called a racist, regressive, liar, Republican light and a coward by the change and hope crowd that constitute Obama’s base and the media which adores him to the point of blind insanity.
Millions of Clinton supporters hardly count as people to Obama fans.
I will vote for whomever the Democratic nominee is (please God I don’t believe in - make it Hillary) but the Barack Dukakis and his supporters have some fences to mend should he stroll in the number 1 slot towards November.
Anglachelg speaks for me here. As for Obama being the lesser of two evils here, what planet are they living on? Judging from the behavior of the candidates and their supporters, Obama is only microscopically better than cheney/bush/rove/McCain.
not sure if he is microscopically better, but even if so, there is a point to be made by voting against him in the general - if they succeed in making his president despite even the dems not wanting him, they will be emboldened to continue to ignore our views. better that he should lose in a landslide, which would cost dean, pelosi, etc., and perhaps put party leadership into more capable and honest hands. just my humble opinion.
Exactly. I am not going to be crapped on by the DNC anymore. This party no longer speaks for me and I feel no sense of allegiance to vote for their chosen candidate. The party doesn’t give a shit about me, so why should I give a crap about the party?
The first signal that we got that the fix was in was when Howard Dean went on tv and encouraged Latinos to coalesce behind Obama…next he will tell women and white working class voters to coalesce behind him too…never mind that he could not win any of these constituencies in the primaries…but they should just trust him because DEAN says so!
sam, because dean says so sounds like a very good reason NOT to do something. you’re right re the fix being in.
“if they succeed in making his president despite even the dems not wanting him, they will be emboldened to continue to ignore our views.”
This is hwat it finally boils down to. I realize everyone has got to come to his/her own realization about this. but as long as we tow the Party Line we will be fed shit sandwiches to eat.
Sorry, but I’m allergic to shit!
hi mimi,
great line re shit sandwiches! i’m allergic too. maybe nomoreshitsandwiches.com will be my website name if i ever figure out how to set up a website.
Republican Motto: “Life is like an Open-Faced shit sandwich; the more Bread you have, the less shit you have to eat!”
outstanding analysis. completely agree.
have voted dem since 1972 - usually straight ticket. will NOT vote for obama, whether he’s on the top or the bottom of the ticket (even the bottom of the ticket means he has a future run for pres.).
completely stopped watching the MSM liars in mid-february - they won’t get me back. also won’t buy the products of their owners/advertisers, such as ge for nbc/msnbc (and i’m in the market for all new appliances - no ge!). similarly, although never watched oprah, will go out of my way to make sure i never buy a product, book, etc., that she endorses. our power is money, as it has always been.
if the dems force obama on us, which it looks like they will, they won’t get me back either. this year i’ll vote a protest straight republican ticket. i will also contribute heavily (max) to mccain. future years’ votes will depend on what’s happening, but my days of trusting the dem party are OVER. odds are i’ll vote independent the next 2 or 3 decades, if i am lucky enough to be here that long.
this is what dean, pelosi, kerry, kennedy, etc., have wrought. they need to all lose their jobs.
People who vote for Obama because he has a D after his name are just reinforcing the horrific behavior of the party this cycle. They will never change their ways until they are hurt by their voters and contributors.
Do not contribute money to the party and withhold your votes. It’s the only thing that can bring needed change to this corrupt system.
For me it’s easy because I cannot entrust the security of my country to Obama.
God Bless America
Land that I Love
take it away, Michelle
uh, oops
You guya are HILarious, pathetic but HILarious.
“Lesser of two evils” doesn’t fit Obama, he’s much, much worse.
As for the Democratic party machine - starve it. One thing the party bosses understand is donations or lack thereof.
Starve them enough and they won’t have the funds for Denver and thats when the long knives come out for Dean and his idiot “progressive” blogger backers.
20 of the richest and largest contributors contacted Pelosi saying they have supported Democrats in Congressional elections and will not continue to do so unless the party plays fair with the Clinton candidacy. Pelosi’s answer was a basic screw you. I believe there is new money flowing to the Democratic Party from overseas. How does a 2 year Senator with no accomplishments to speak of raise over 200 Mill? If the convention which we now hear is not paid for–wonder who will come out of the woodwork and pay for it. We are condemned to live in interesting times.
Whats a 200 million to Auchi anyway? Why did he fly in to Chicago for anyway?
And what does that say about Senator Clinton??
It goes further back than the current Hillary and Obama race…it’s the split between the Dem lunch pails and
the Dem elites. I say we have let the Dem elites pick the last two nominees…how did that work out? Maybe we should try the lunch pail’s pick? Hillary
Um, I know you’re upset and I’m not trying to be rude, but you can’t get much more elite or establishment than the Clintons. I was in Iowa in ‘04 and it was not any elites that chose Kerry, it was the party establishment (particularly Clinton’s friends) who banded together to do whatever was necessary to bring down Dean.
that is only because John Kerry approached dear old former DNC chairman Terri Mcaulluff and asked him for $1 million of DNC funds to get Dean out of the race.
As for the Clinton’s being party elites, there has always been more of a begrudging respect/hate that the party elites have held for the Clintons. They thought the same thing about the Clinton’s in 1992 that George H.W. Bush thought; “who are these people from a backwater state like Arkansas, thinking that they can compete?” I think in 1992 the Democrats had been out of the White House for so long they simply wanted a win and if it was Bill Clinton, so be it. I also think that the party elites thought that the Clinton’s were going to need them to traverse the shark-infested waters of Washington. What they didn’t foresee was Bill and Hillary throwing out the old “handbook” and effectively writing their own.
Did they stumble and fall sometimes during those early years, yes. However, both Clinton’s do bring with them solid ideas about governance. Obama does not and that is what makes him so attractive to the Democratic elites. They can get from Obama what they could not get from Bill and Hillary Clinton, a willing pupil. Obama is like a piece of Silly Putty that you used on Sunday morning to pull the picture up from the page. He is moldable. He will be what you want him to be. He will project what you want him to project….so long as he has the position and power he believes he is entitled to. [Just like George W. Bush!!]
If I didn’t have my feet firmly on the ground, I’d be under the impression that the DNC was picking the nominee, and not voters.
And that furthermore, the party had two choices - to alienate white women (who vote majority Republican anyway), or african american men AND women (who vote 90% democratic every year).
If it came down to that, guess which one they’d choose? Without white women, they lose an election. Without african americans, there is no democratic party.
But luckily, we have elections to decide these things. The only thing sillier than calls for Hillary Clinton to drop out are these “lifelong democrats” who are suddenly finding John McCain so wonderful. What about his record or his plans have anything in common with either Democratic candidate? None. Any fool can sign onto a message board, say they’re a Clinton supporter who’s going to vote for McCain, or claim to be an Obama supporter and try to drive a further wedge into the party by insulting Clinton supporters.
Have you all heard of Operation Chaos? THIS is who our enemy is. Not the other candidate.
john, there are many white women who have historically voted dem. seems that you’re basically saying that we don’t matter, because, in your words, “without african americans, there is no democratic party.” sorry to tell you this, but without us white women, there’d also be no democratic party.
you also say that we’re silly for “suddenly” finding mccain “so wonderful.” actually, we find john mccain better than obama. i realize it doesn’t take much to be better than obama, of course, but that’s that. in any case, you are entitled to your opinion. and we are entitled to ours. you say that “any fool” can sign into a message board and say they’re a clinton supporter who will vote for mccain - i guess i’m a fool, then, because that’s exactly who i am. bye bye.
I wasn’t saying you don’t matter - I was saying that it wasn’t up to the party to make this decision. It’s up to individual voters who decide on the nominee.
If you can motivate the numbers to elect Hillary Clinton, then she will be the nominee. If you can’t, then the party isn’t going to bail you out. It’s basic democracy.
John, there can be no true democracy when DNC operators like Donna Brazzille tell you that this is a 48-state race. What happened to the 50-state strategy of Howard Dean? What happened to the AA ethos regarding “every vote must count-voter disenfranchisement is another Jim Crowe law”?
Have you not seen that it is the Obama camp that blocked a re-vote in Michigan and Florida? He is doing to those (2) states what he has done in every election he has campaigned in; remove the competition!
What happened to the Democratic mantra of “we are not Republican’s, we are not lemmings.” If one thing doesn’t work, you try something else?
Cue the crickets John.
12% of the voting electorate does not constitute a voting bloc that can swing an election. If it did, then blacks should have had a black nominee ages ago. Jesse Jackson, Sr registered 7 million new voters in 1988 and they weren’t all AAs. We should certainly have more than one black Senator and one black governor, (Paterson was not elected governor, so he doesn’t count).
This is what they are trying to get people to believe, that AAs will desert the Party. Well, more than any other group in the Dem Party, where will they go?
This is why Howard Dean is sneaking aroung taking to latino democratic leaders about supporting the party’s candidate. They are 16% now and the NEW minority majority. If white women, blue collar, Reagan Dems go for McCain along with latinos in a significiant number, the AA community does not have the numbers to bring it home for their biracial candidate.
Now thems the facts. The DNC and Party leadership is trying to do the same thing that Obama is doing: GUILT WHITE AMERICA into voting for Obama. This is what Ferraro meant by ‘the whole country is caught up in the concept.’
We are being played. Everyone is.
And AAs are like sacrificial lambs being led to the slaughter.
John it doesn’t matter what you say. This AA will not support Obama in Nov.
It sucks big time when you believe strongly in a candidate and they don’t do as well as you hoped. It is angering to feel like they are being disrespected by the press and treated unfairly by the other side and their supporters.
I know it’s not over, and I know that you all are upset, but let’s not forget that there is a much bigger common enemy. If you truly believe in the principles and ideals that Hillary laid out, you will recognize that there is no room for perfect idealism in our party right now. Things are bad and will get much worse if John McCain is our president.
However angry you are at Obama, his supporters, and his campaign tactics, I promise you that I was just as angry if not more so at Hillary a week ago. I was ready to say forget the party and write in Gore or someone else if Hillary won. I was angered by her campaign tactics and the strong words of her supporters. I then realized that I was buying into exactly what the Republicans want us to do. I saw Karl Rove on CSPAN today. He was grinning like a Cheshire cat and talking about how Democrats were so angry and partisan that they wouldn’t vote for the other candidate. There is no way I am ever going to do something to make that man happy.
If Hillary wins because she went negative, if she wins because she decided to go against her previous promises about MI and FL, if she wins because supers overturn the vote of the people, if she wins because her supporters strong arm Pelosi with threats, if she wins for any reason at all, I may be mad. I may get downright stinkin’ angry, but I will vote for her in November. I will vote for her and I will smile while I’m doing it because the last eight years of hell and war and corporate greed and lying and incompetence and giving my hard earned tax dollars to Enron/Halliburton/Brownie/Cheney/Rove/22 year old arms dealers/corporate welfare will finally be coming to an end. No matter whether it is Hillary or Barrack we will still need to work hard to keep them honest, but either would be better than another 4 years of Bush/Cheney policies.
If you do not like where the party is headed don’t give up on it, dig in and speak up. Get involved and work to change it so that it reflects your vision of what it ought to be.
Real democrats agree with you.
Republicans signing in with names like “former democrat who sure is mad!!!” won’t. But they wouldn’t have voted for Hillary Clinton or Barack Obama in any case.
I sure hope you’re right. I do think that there is some truth to the idea that frustrations are high. Support of a candidate can create a very personal and emotional tie. It hurts to see them disparaged and it’s hard to watch them not do well. I don’t know why it feels so personal, it just does.
The polls haven’t matched the rhetoric. The more Rush Limbaugh tells his supporters to deliberately sew chaos in the Democratic party, the more posts from people who say they’ll NEVER support _____ you see, and yet the polls do not change - they still have Obama and Clinton both beating McCain.
Diplomacy is definitely in order - and on both sides - but I know troublemakers when I see them.
Because, the All Politics Is Personal.
This campaign has been revealing to me on several levels what my black brothers and sisters feel about belonging, and especially, and more close to me, what women in my life feel about being included in decisions of power and influence.
I’m still on board with Clinton for the simple reason that my wife supports here and I believe she has been treated unfairly on many levels. I wasn’t for either candidate, as my real choice was mocked (Kucinich) and my next candidate was mocked (Edwards) and my next candidate (Nader) is still in the race.
But she says the treatment of Clinton is no different than her real life experience. She has to work 10 times as hard to get the same credit a man gets for the same or less work. And because I bear witness to those events in her life I know what she is saying isn’t bullshit.
Listen to Ed Rendell’s take on Charlie Rose the other night about his wife, who is a big time judge. He said for years he didn’t know how his wife felt about the topic of women because she didn’t talk about it. But once she got to see the sexist attacks on Clinton she blew up. She got really pissed.
Now, I don’t criticise Obama based on his Wright ties, that doesn’t work for me, but I see the view of others who say its a concern for trying to win over Middle America.
My criticism of him comes from believing he’s a Trojan Horse candidate who brings special interests in his belly that perhaps he doesn’t even see. And the more I try to ask questions, question his background in Chicago, the votes in the US Senate, the more I’m called a Republican.
So forgive me if I don’t feel much sympathy for him or his supporters when they cry foul on Clinton because all it does is reinforce my believe that he’s a slick conartist (who may even believe his own shit) and that he’s more dreamy than real.
And no…if he gets the nomination don’t expect me to vote for him in November. His camp cost him the race with me. The only way he can get my vote is to call for the impeachment and incarceration for George W Bush, Dick Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld, Alberto Gonzales, and Condi Rice. Short of that, he’s a con.