A Talking Points Memo: Rules provide for the Florida and Michigan delegations to be seated.
By Owl06 on April 24, 2008 at 1:19 PM in Barack Obama, DNC, Delegates, Florida, Hillary Clinton, Howard Dean, John Edwards, Michigan, MoveOn.org
Republished with the express permission of Jon Winkleman and Jeffrey H. Campagna
Senator Obama and his surrogates, including MoveOn.org, are waging a public relations battle to pressure the DNC to refuse credentials to the Michigan and Florida delegations for the Democratic National Convention.
Their message consists of misrepresentations and lies about the DNC rules concerning these states. Unfortunately most news outlets and commentators are repeating this misinformation without ever checking the Obama campaign’s claims for accuracy against the actual DNC rules.
It is critical that every one of us combat this misinformation. There has been much discussion recently about the will of the voters. We can’t accurately determine which candidate has the greatest support amongst primary voters if we disregard the preference of 1.5 million voters in Florida while giving outsize weight to the 250,000 who caucused in Iowa, and even more outsize influence to the mere 20,000 people who participated in the Democrats Abroad contest.
Senator Clinton won decisive victories in both Florida and Michigan in January and is entitled to the delegates she won from those states. In the tight race for delegates, Florida and Michigan could decide who will be the Democratic nominee for president.
Regardless of who wins the nomination, it is important that the victory be based in the rules. If the nominee’s victory is perceived to be based on false information or rules violations, the Party will be divided going into November. We can’t afford such a scenario.
Please correct all misstatements and cite the actual sections of the Rules where applicable. Also direct the person repeating the misinformation to the actual DNC Delegate Selection Rules posted online at,
akamai.net (PDF format)
In addition to forwarding these talking points to fellow Hillary supporters, send them to Obama supporters who you believe support a fair application of the rules. Point out to them that it is for the good of everyone that all understand the rules of the game. If someone remains argumentative and insists that Hillary is cheating, simply ask,
“Have you actually read the rules?”
DNC Delegate Selection Rules: Florida & Michigan
True or False?
1) The DNC Rules state that pledged delegates elected by Florida and Michigan voters must be excluded because those states scheduled primaries before February 5, 2008.
FALSE: The DNC Delegate Selection Rules explicitly give the Rules and Bylaws Committee and the Credentials Committee ultimate jurisdiction over delegate selection. These committees, each in their independent capacities, can seat the delegates from Michigan and Florida at their discretion.
2) The mandatory penalty for a state holding a primary before February 5, 2008 is exclusion of that state’s delegates from the Democratic National Convention.
FALSE: The mandatory penalty is exclusion of one half of the offending state’s pledged and alternate delegates. Unless otherwise provided, the other half of that state’s pledged and alternate delegates will be seated at the convention.
3) Any attempt to seat 100% of the pledged or unpledged delegates of Florida and Michigan at this point is “changing the rules.”
FALSE: The DNC Rules explicitly contemplate that excluded delegates will eventually be seated at the Convention. For states in violation of the timing rules, the DNC Delegate Selection Rules provide remedies to reinstate all of their delegates, both pledged and unpledged.
4) Florida is not entitled to reinstatement of its delegates because the Democrats in the Florida State Legislature did not make efforts to keep the state’s primary in compliance with DNC Rules.
FALSE: Evidence that that a Republican majority in the state legislature set the primary date in violation of the DNC timing rules in spite of efforts by the state’s Democratic legislators to keep the primary in compliance is grounds for appealing a DNC decision to strip a state of its delegates.
Though Florida has a 2:1 Republican legislative majority, the DNC Rules & Bylaws Committee ruled that the Democratic minority did not make sufficient efforts to keep the primary date in compliance with DNC Rules. The Florida State Party disputes this factual finding. The State Party argues that the Democrats in the legislature were robbed of meaningful power to stop the Republican effort to set an early primary date because Republicans drafted the controlling legislation and packed it with other unrelated issues which the Democrats in the legislature felt they could not in good conscience oppose.
5) The DNC Rules & Bylaws Committee has taken action and is unable to change the sanctions imposed on Florida and Michigan.
FALSE: The Rules and Bylaws Committee has the power to lift any and all automatic sanctions along with the power to impose and modify additional sanctions. The Rules and Bylaws committee also has the power to create its own committee to create an alternative process for delegate selection should the state party not cooperate or be unable to resolve the issue on its own. The Rules and Bylaws Committee failed to use the tools it had to independently resolve the matter in good faith before Florida and Michigan voters went to the polls of the ill timed primaries to express their candidate preference.
6) Hillary violated the DNC Rules by keeping her name on the Michigan ballot.
FALSE: Nowhere in the DNC’s Delegate Selection Plans is there any suggestion or command that any candidate remove his or her name from a ballot in a state that is in violation of timing rules. This is why Obama and Edwards were on the Florida ballot, in spite of its primary also being before February 5.
7) Hillary manipulated the process by being the only candidate who kept her name on the Michigan ballot.
FALSE: Kucinich, Dodd and Gravel also kept their names on the Michigan ballot. In fact the decision of some candidates to remove their names from the Michigan ballot was a tactical move designed to curry favor with Democratic Party officials in Iowa who were concerned that the significance of their first-in-the-nation status was being diminished. The risk paid off handsomely for Obama.
Because Edwards and Obama were not on the Michigan ballot, that election cannot be considered a legitimate expression of voter preference of a presidential candidate.
FALSE: According to the Delegate Selection Rules & Bylaws, “Delegates shall be allocated in a fashion that fairly reflects the expressed presidential preference or uncommitted status of the primary voters…” The Michigan ballot included an option for “uncommitted” to ensure that voters could express a presidential preference or uncommitted status consistent with this rule. Nothing in the Rules requires a state to allocate delegates to candidates who voluntarily remove their names from the ballot as John Edwards and Barack Obama did.
9) The primaries in Florida and Michigan are invalid because voters were under informed due to the lack of active campaigning.
FALSE: Voters in Florida and Michigan were very well informed. They had ample access to newspapers, television, books, radio, and the Internet. They could have availed themselves of over a year of coverage of the 2008 election. They could watch every campaign commercial on YouTube. They had the same opportunity as the rest of America to watch 17 televised debates.
Moreover, nowhere in the DNC rules does it specify that candidates must campaign directly in a state to make its primary a legitimate expression of voter candidate preference. Voters in Alaska and Hawaii never get visited by the candidates.
10) All the candidates signed a pledge to the DNC not to campaign in the states violating primary timing.
FALSE: The candidates signed no such pledge to the DNC.
11) Hillary violated the rules against campaigning in Florida and Michigan.
FALSE: Jurisdiction over determinations of whether a candidate shall be considered in violation of the relevant rule (Rule 20 C.1.b.) lies with the Rules and Bylaws Committee. Because the Committee has not ruled against either candidate, it is false to assert that either candidate is in violation.
12) Hillary signed a pledge that she violated by remaining on the ballot in Florida and Michigan?
FALSE: The only pledges signed were between the candidates and the state party chairs in Iowa, New Hampshire, South Carolina, and Nevada. More to the point, they were not binding on the DNC, which is the only organization that has authority over seating delegates. Thus, these pledges are not controlling over the seating of Florida and Michigan delegates.
13) Hillary’s activities in Florida and Michigan look suspicious, between fundraising and holding a victory rally in Florida.
FALSE: Hillary acted well within the letter and spirit of the rules. The rules stipulate that candidates can fundraise in states violating the timing rules and that fundraising activity is not considered impermissible campaigning. Further, the prohibition on campaigning in any state ends as soon as the primary in violation concludes. Hillary’s victory party was within the rules because she did not appear at a campaign event in Florida until after the polls closed.
14) Barack Obama would likely win more delegates if there were a new contest.
FALSE: The rules provide that a candidate who campaigns or holds press conferences in a state in violation of timing may not receive any of the pledged or unpledged delegates from that state. Because Barack Obama campaigned in Florida when, on Sunday September 30, 2007, he held an impromptu public news conference in Florida, when he bought television advertising time on stations in markets which included much of Florida, and when he ran a campaign in Michigan to encourage voters to vote “uncommitted,” Barack Obama may not be entitled to receive any delegates from Florida or Michigan.
15) Reinstating any of the delegates from either Florida or Michigan would be a travesty against democracy and fair elections. It would be cheating.
FALSE: There are many good and valid reasons for the DNC to have rules regarding delegate selection timing, but none of these reasons relate to ensuring that primaries accurately reflect voter preference. None of these involve the preservation of democracy.
Neither Clinton nor Obama has the power to reinstate the delegates unless they already have won 50% plus 1 of the total delegates. Therefore neither has the power to cheat. This matter lies in the hands of the DNC’s Rules & Bylaws Committee which is neutral.
Were Obama to gain control of the Credentials Committee at the DNC, he would have the power to exclude the delegates from Michigan and Florida. That would be a biased effort to disenfranchise two large states. That would be a travesty and one the Republicans could easily exploit in November.
16) Hillary has changed her position on Florida and Michigan now that she may not receive 50% + 1 of the total delegates need to win before the pledged delegate primaries conclude.
FALSE: From the beginning of the Florida controversy, Hillary has consistently stated that if she wins, meaning securing 50% + 1 of the total delegates, she will reinstate the Florida and Michigan delegation at the convention if the DNC fails to resolve the problem on their own before such time.
Obama has changed his position now that seating the Florida and Michigan delegates would put Hillary in the lead. In August of last year he said that resolving the delegate issue was not his job (”I’m like a player on the field. I shouldn’t be setting up the rules” ) and in September he suggested to Florida donors that if he were the nominee whether he would seat in the state’s excluded delegates, declaring that he would “Do right by Florida voters.”
Currently the race for pledged delegates is so split that neither candidate will receive the 50% plus 1 delegates they need to seal their nomination before the Convention. Obama now wants to set the rules and insists that the DNC must refuse to seat Florida and Michigan’s delegates, even though DNC Rules clearly provide remedies to include them. His arguments are not based in the rules and are not in the interest of democracy or the Democratic Party, but only in the fact that those delegates reflect a greater nationwide preference for Hillary Clinton.
17) A new primary or caucus would settle the issue in a fair way that would maintain party unity.
FALSE: A new primary or caucus that complies with timing rules would have been fair if the date had been set before people started voting in Iowa. Once people started voting, each subsequent primary or caucus was affected. The campaigns have campaigned and spent money in reliance on this calendar. The candidates, campaigns, and electorates are not the same today as they were before voting began. Any new contest would be on an unlevel playing field. It is unnecessary, an insult to the voters who already voted, and unacceptable.
Sources:
2008 Delegate Selection Rules for the Democratic National Convention (hereinafter “DNC Rules”), Rules 19-20, Sections C. 4-9, Section D.
DNC Rules, Rule 20, Section C.1.a.
DNC Rules, Rule 20.C.5-7 provide several remedies including empowering the Rules & Bylaws committee to implement processes to seat the delegates from an offending state
DNC Rules, Rule 20 C.7.
DNC Rules, Rule 20 C.6-7
DNC Rules, Rule 13 A.
DNC Rules, Rule 19 B., Rule 20.
Additional Sources:
Washington Post
TBO.com Breaking News
This is amazing. The Kool-Aid drinkers having been pushing their phoney narrative so long that even the media have become intoxicated with the false notion that MI & FL don’t count. They will be counted.
You are of good and noble service…Thanks…
Nice try, guys. As with anything else, the punishment must be followed through on in order for the rules to ever be taken seriously. The DNC has the right to enact penalties in order to preserve an orderly primary process - which both candidates understood and agreed to.
Did you miss Hillary on NHPR back in the fall?
Had she NOT said this in order to pander to New Hampshire voters, she might have a case. But in this instance it is 100% clear that Hillary Clinton understood the penalties being enacted on Michigan, and that her conversion to a firebrand on this issue is born completely out of political expedience.
Why isn’t South Carolina being punished equally?
Good question….
Why didn’t Hillary care about MI voters until she was in trouble later in the campaign?
Preach it to another choir…Friz….How about Rev. Wright’s church..
Notice how you got zero responses to your completely valid point as to Hillary’s sudden conversion to the Michigan cause.
I’ll repeat Hillary’s statement:
“I personally did not think it made any difference, uh, whether or not my name was on the ballot. You know, it’s clear, this election they’re having is not going to count for anything” - Hillary Clinton, on NHPR, 10/11/2007
Straw man. Count the votes. Erroneous info on the rules from Obama backers. Now we all understand the rules rather than the roolz.
No one responds to the one thousandth publishing of that particular quote because Obamabots are tedious and annoying.
No, no one responds to it because they can’t accept the fact that Hillary’s crusade for MI and FL voters is born out of expedience rather than principle.
Also, I think the term “straw man” does not mean what you think it means, as they say in The Princess Bride.
In response to this, Obama, October 2007 Iowa “I have made it perfectly clear my campaign will not inject race into this campaign nor will it support anyone using it” and Obama in Iowa January 2008 “In no way will my campaign go against its commitment not to do ANY form of campaigning in Fla and Mich”
Barry lies and lies and lies, yet the master of eliminating opponents in slimy means got out foxed by his own doing!
Obamabot responses will be, it is Clinton’s fault, just as Wright, Ayers, NAFTA, empty career and lobbyist lies and actions by Obama are Clinton’s fault! To Obamabots, fuck you there are still 9 primarys where Obama can try to make a comeback!
According to the rules, Obama gets nothing for Fla and Mich, rules are rules, bitch huh Obamabots?
Setting aside the validity of the way you’re using those quotes, “he did it too” is not a response. Why do you think Hillary said one thing in NH and another five months later?
Look at what your candidate is doing now — he blocked the revote and blocking the count. That is more damaging than whatever Hillary said then. Your defense of “she said it too” is IRRELEVANT (assuming you are quoting her accurately).
This issue is bigger than either candidates and as this blog reveals the DNC can actually set this right. Set it right in the name of Democracy and the democratic party, it must. You guys are unfortunately on the wrong side of this issue. You should be advocating “count every vote” if you believe in true democracy. Your attitude and Obama’s mirror that of third world countries where they don’t count for fear of LOSING (Musharaff did not hold elections because of fear of losing.) You guys don’t want to count FL and MI because of fear of losing the nomination. You are shameful and pathetic. If the roles were reversed and Hillary was blocking the count, I would still have said this and forced DNC to resolve it because in a Democracy you COUNT EVERY VOTE. Once you start corrupting that ideal, you have lost forever. Not to mention the practical side of this issue which is that if Obama is the nominee without counting them, those states will not vote for him. For all your privileged existence, you guys are really fools.
Excuse me but the DNC does not have the right to take away any American’s vote and I would say that regardless of who gets them!
http://www.nhpr.org/node/13858
Selective quoting has become so common by the Obama camp that it’s not surprising anymore, but this one takes the cake. Here’s the full transcript of HRC’s answer to the question:
Desert Dawg: Thank you!
Big Media, especially MSNBC, is not a news network, they have become personal agents for Obama. They get their talking points directly from what Axelrod & Co. feeds to them daily. Pretty disgusting. The days of MSNBC reporting news is long gone. They have now become the “Place for Politics.” Even during the day, when CNN and Fox are running actual news stories (however limited), MSNBC just breaks in every 1/2 hour with a snipet or two about a Breaking News item, and then back to more gossip, gossip, and tabloid gossip masqueraded as news commentary. Pathetic, really.
so why hasn’t anyone posted this on HuffPo yet? They have an article about the seating of delegates and they are all yelling about the rules as usual.
I would post it, but have been banned. They won’t tell me why.
Apparently they have some sort of counter and after a certain number of pro-Hillary posts you are automatically banned.
We need to force Dean and Brazile to resign. He is protecting Obama in so many ways from helping him cancel the NC debate to making sure that FL and MI aren’t seated just so that Clinton won’t have the popular vote argument. Does anyone here agree with me that Brazile is holding a gun to Dean’s head about this. She’s not going to allow him to do the right thing as long as it helps Clinton in the end.
What can we do about this? We’ve sent letters, emails, cans…what do we need to do to have our voices heard? Protest in D.C.? They are trying to make sure that Clinton doesn’t make it to Denver. I think we need to protest before then. *sigh* This situation seems hopeless because the media and the Democratic Party leadership are all in the tank for Obama.
Actually, Clinton is unlikely to “make it” to Denver because the delegate math indicates that she needs 30-point wins in every state in order to overcome Obama’s pledged delegate lead. Play with this yourself:
http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/02/29/delegate.counter/index.html
Finally, MI and FL delegates will get seated, but it’s important to acknowledge two things: 1) that the DNC has the ability to put into place meaningful penalties in order to safeguard the orderliness of the primary process, and 2) any election in which the eligible voters are led to believe their vote is not going to count is a compromised election.
And also: votes with one candidate available are all well and good in the Soviet Union, but we usually don’t go in for that sort of thing.
Ehemmmm….Friz….Your candidate is headed for POLITICAL OBLIVION…Now go bite your pillow….
Actually, you’re dead wrong. Obama’s is terrified because he doesn’t have the delegates to win. Only by SELECTIVELY denying Hillary states and trying to argue that his delegates should be weighted more heavily does he have a chance.
Bud, Obama isn’t “denying” states; the campaign has simply been conducted under a certain set of rules, which all candidates have acknowledged from the outset. Suggesting that the Obama campaign drove the process from the outset is frankly ludicrous, given that Harold Ickes was involved in the decision and that the campaign had barely begun at that point.
To put it another way, the “denial” that you’re referring to happened back in 2007, and your suggestion that Obama was behind it is pretty uncreditable.
If Obama was not playing the puppets at DNC recently, they would have resolved this issue for fear of losing those states in November. As I said before he is on the wrong side of this issue and DNC is ready to commit political suicide over this. It is not only those states they will lose in November, it is also people like me who care about real Democracy.
pm– spot on! however, you may be forgetting one thing: Tim Russert’s new reconfiguration of the Electoral map where BO does not need FL and MI to win the GE! He wins Colorado and Virginia and that makes up for FL and MI. So, the “old school” way of looking and FL and MI is well… old school, according to Russert.
Furthering that hypothesis, Ed Schultz just said tonight on CNN’ Larry King that Florida is a political graveyard.
I don’t want a nominee who writes off FL and MI even before we start the election. Russert and Schultz are not credible to me.
TIMMY AND SCHULTZY WHAT SOURCES HA HA HA HA HA ARE YOU STUPID……THE GRAVEYARD IS THE FURTURE DEMOCRATIC PARTY……
I couldn’t have put it better myself, excellent analysis JKFriz.
cause you ARE JFriz!
“cause you ARE JFriz!”
Sorry to disappoint you, but I’m not. The administrator of the site can tell our I.P. addresses apart, if it’s so important to you. Send them an email!
They come in twos, because they are afraid.
I recieved this e mail from Greater Orlando’s Team Hillary here in Orlando Florida. There is going to be a rally to protest on seating the Michigan and Florida delegates. Please contact Jim at the phone number or e-mail address below. A private individual is funding a protest to be held April 30 in Washington, DC.
The protest will be in front of the DNC on April 30th. Please pass this on to others and ask them to respond to Jim via email at fdrjim@gmail.com or call him at 888.599.1586. Jim, along with Blaine Whiford, the Statewide events coordinator, will be there. He also has a group in VA that will be attending as well -
Remember, you all are part of something extremely special! Pass this info along all over the blogs.
This is too important. I will go to DC for this.
Protest is very important as it allows the senators and reps, plus delegates,supers and party elders to feel backlash if party continues rigging this primary.
A massive email event might convince some of the supers that they have to think twice and asking Dean/Brazile coup to end. This might help, but doing NOTHING is not the answer.
It’s clear that this is a coup, and don’t forget the major roles played by Teddy and Kerry. Remember at election time when they will need your votes.
Here is an email I sent to the FDP today. I am furious with my congressman (Wexler).
From an article in the Miami Herald today-Apr. 23
”As a Floridian it’s hard to stomach those that boycotted our election now telling us it was a totally legitimate election when there was no campaign, there was no contest, no get-out-the-vote effort, none of the things that make up a campaign,” said Obama’s Florida campaign chair Rep. Robert Wexler of Boca Raton.
All of the candidates were on the ballot. All of the candidates agreed not to campaign in Florida. Some of the candidates held private fundraisers in Florida.
I called Rep. Wexler’s DC office today (he is my congressman) and questioned the first part of the quote-”As a Floridian it’s hard to stomach those that boycotted our election now telling us it was a totally legitimate election…”. It is patently obvious that the pronoun “THOSE” refers to Sen. Clinton. It was made very clear to me by the way my concerns were brushed off as invalid, that his office is now operating as a full time campaign headquarters for Barack Obama.
Wexler has repeatedly avowed that he will work to ensure FL. votes would count towards the selection of our nominee. His statement in the Miami Herald implies that he has a conflict of interests, ie, his duty to the FL. voters he represents or to his candidate of choice.
Should Sen. Obama be nominated without counting FL. & MI. (without using voodoo math), I will campaign against him and join the movement to encourage voters to become Independents. As a lifelong democrat, I do not feel that I’ll be leaving the Party. The Party has left me. It no longer represents my core values or political beliefs.
Pam–tonight Larry King asked Ed Schulz how he thought that BO would win FL in the Fall if he’s the Dem. nominee, Schulz’ response was… BO doesn’t have to concern himself with Florida, because it’s a “political graveyard.” I was shocked and upset when he said that, just discounting FL as if it was not big deal to once again disenfranchise voters.
I would really like to go to the DNC to protest this, this is beyond infuriating.
OT - Uppity, did you close down your blog page? I can’t get to it any more.
No my blog is alive and well, it was just typed in wrong here at the white line. I was in a hurry, had erased all cookied and had to type it in again.
You can get there now from my Name Link. Sorry bout that.
A typical media problem, highlighted on POTUS 08 this morning- Chris Cor, former right-wing shill radio host on WMAL-630 in DC, now a host for POTUS, interviewing some guy identified as a non-partisan state senator from Colorado. This guy was asked “is the argument that Barack Obama has problem winning blue-collar votes legitimate, or is it just spin?”
The guest quickly answers “Oh, its just spin. Barack will have no problem winning New York, California, Pennsylvania- he and Hillary are too close on the issues.” Um, then why can’t he close the deal, buddy?
Here’s what pisses me off- we NEVER hear the obvious point that Hillary is FAR more likely to win over the AA and Upper-class liberal white voters who are keeping Obama afloat than Obama is likely to win over the white middle-class voters, Catholics, Latinos, women, the elderly, etc. No, it’s just ASSUMED Obama will win all those groups, and never you mind that he’s failed totally in most primary contests so far.
Chris Cor mentions Lanny Davis, to which the guest responds “well, he’s a Hillary surrogate..” Yes, but you are an OBAMA surrogate. The difference? You don’t admit it.
Anyone else out there sick to death of hearing “nonpartisan” guests bleat Obama talking points and act as Obamapoligists while claiming they don’t support either candidate?
“Hillary is FAR more likely to win over the AA and Upper-class liberal white voters who are keeping Obama afloat than Obama is likely to win over the white middle-class voters, Catholics, Latinos, women, the elderly, etc.”
Again, John, the adult, to the rescue.
Obama is NEVER going to win this crowd. The real truth, his chances of winning them even in a perfect world was always marginal at best. Now that they have a reason NOT TO VOTE FOR HIM, they are going to do just that.
If Hillary wins by outpolling Obama under fair rules, more power to her. If she does it by having the rules changed to benefit only her (like she proposes for Florida and Michigan), she will be lucky to get 20% of the Black vote. Whoever posted that she is more likely ot get Black votes doesn’t understand how pissed off Black voters will be if she steals this.
In fact — please explain this logic. Both Florida and Michigan voted knowing that they would get no delegates. So why would the status quo lead them to vote for McCain? Nothing would be changed from the situation presented when they voted!
I’m sick of it. I’m really sick of news networks pretending to be delivering us the news. Instead, they are political players in this election. Taking sides and acting as P.R. agents for Obama. Andrea Mitchell and Gloria Borger love to refer to their Blackberrys to regurgetate the BO talking points to us, the viewers — from Obama/Axelrod’s lips, to the Blackberry, straight to the American public.
We can send Hillary money. The Obamanauts are just making noise to divert attention from his loss in PA, and the new adverts (featuring Wright) in NC.
Don’t let them confuse you. Now we all have an excellent source to answer the media/OFB. Let’s not get all het up and waste too much energy on it though.
I have every confidence that Hillary knows how to navigate these waters. What she needs most right now is MONEY!
Ain’t no quit in Hillary and there ain’t no quit in me!
I have been sending money and will continue to. Have urged friends to make donations even the small amts of $10, $25, $50. It adds up.
We need to do this to let our votes count.
Did you ask Bill Clinton to pitch in?
He got 800,000 for promoting the Colombia trade deal that Hillary allegedly opposes. Least he can do is turn over the money to Hillary’s campaign to show his repentence.
It still comes back to Obama ran campaign commercials in Florida for 2 week before the primary.
And why aren’t Iowa, New Hampshire, and South Carolina subject to the same penalties and MI and FL?
Because Iowa voted “correctly,” as did South Carolina, while New Hampshire’s delegation is basically an even split.
States which voted for Saint Barack aren’t going to be punished.
I think you knew that answer already though, didnt you?
Not they didn’t they moved their date.
Rule 11.A specifically set the date for the primaries & caucuses for those three states as “no earlier than 22 days before the first Tuesday in February” (Iowa), “no earlier than 14 days before the first Tuesday in February” (New Hampshire), and “no earlier than 7 days before the first Tuesday in February” (South Carolina).
Iowa held their caucuses on January 3rd. That’s more than 22 days before the first Tuesday in February. New Hampshire held their primary on January 8th. That’s more than 17 days before the first Tuesday in February. And South Carolina held their primary on January 26th. That’s more than 7 days before the first Tuesday in February.
By “voted correctly” I meant “voted for Obama.” I thought that was clear.
Yeah I get the joke, but why is it allowed, yes I know the joke, but WHY?
Because Big Money doesn’t want the Clintons in office. That’s all I can figure. Nothing else makes sense. Donna Brazile isn’t holding the whole nation at bay. There’s something much larger (!) in play here.
Talktruth….I agree with you on that one…Lots at stake and things are looking very 1930’s….It’s shapin up to be an interesting year….Horde your rice….
It’s far more than money that’s creating this coup and push for Obama at all costs by party leaders.
It’s the black caucus. Very poweful, and at the mid term election Dems have been warned by caucus they’d lose the house and senate seats controlled by AA votes. AA represent important base for the party.They threaten to leave the party.
Other reason is younger voters being seen as new democratic recruits are seen as the “future” of the party and that Obama- not Clinton can bring them in.
Actually, Maybe. Young voters are far less reliable than older voters, but Kennedy and Co are betting on Obama’s oratorical skills and his power to sway this young group who fawn over Obama and believe his bullshit. They question nothing and are therefore ideal…providing they come out in the general and actually vote.
Other reasons for Party’s behavior is their desire to wrest control of the party from Clintons. Dean despises them, and actually has proven himself as a partial,biased,and inept manipulator in a power struggle that is not being conducted democratically.
Everyone has been fed the garbage that the ROOLZ cannot change, yadayada, but this is incorrect as we know the bylaws are not being properly put before the media and/or voters.
This is propoganda pure and simple. I do not want the Democratic party to shift to the extreme left manipulated by a cadre of multi millionaire power brokers that feel Obama can win, and wish to destroy Hillary’s chances at all cost.
Big money wants to take this lone opportunity to take power and bet it on Obama rather than Hillary.
You would have thought they’d have vetted BO far better, and had a better understanding of the general electorate.
Their specs tell them along with the students, indies, and black votes they can do this as Hillary backers will ultimately vote for Obama.
I believe their stupidity and ineptness will cost them the Presidency but will gain seats in Congress and Senate for Dems. McCain may win this,but the party is a mess. I voted way back when as a democrat and this reminds me of past failures.
Right now Obama is avoiding debates as he does so badly in them as fears she can actually win this, and diminish Obama’s invincibility aura.
He is clearly being a coward, and should be called out, and challenged continually on this issue alone.
Obama is in closet mode and is being peotected by Deaniacs as their guy has been exposed.
“It’s the black caucus. Very poweful, and at the mid term election Dems have been warned by caucus they’d lose the house and senate seats controlled by AA votes. AA represent important base for the party.They threaten to leave the party.”
You’re really over-estimating the power of the CBC. Not all black SDs have been strong-armed by Jesse Jackson, Jr. Also, leave the Democratic Party and go where? The members of the CBC want their jobs first and foremost. In states like SC, the voters would be crazy to not vote for their Congressional Representatives. If the DNC were to decide in favor of seating the MI & FL delegations, there would be nothing they could do and the voters would not hold them accountable. They may not vote for Hillary and other white Dems running for office, but they will go to the polls and vote for their AA Congress people.
This is more about whatever/whomever is behind Obama and Clinton-hatred. In the end, it won’t only be Hillary who is the scapegoat, it will be the AA community as well.
Now do you see why I despise that man?
Agree…..Imagine democrats actually reading the rules and getting pissed off……
Obama campaigned in Michigan too, he had fliers sent out askign people there to vote undecided, campaigning is campaigning and Obama asked something of the voters there under his campaign, thus Obama faulters in Fla and Mich!
Rules are a bitch and Obama broke the rules, so Fla rules are broken because of a republican majority, and Michigan because of idiots, fair enough, Obmaa broke them as well, so he is subject to what, disqualification from the nomination if Fla and MIch do not stand?
Has anyone sent these rules to Rachel Maddow, Ed Schultz, or any other radio or tv pundit? Lord knows that Keith Olbermann won’t have a “Special Comment” regarding these rules because then he would have to actually read the truth and…(gasp!) repeat the truth instead of blathering on with his phony Edward R. Murrow radio voice.
How can we get this information out, and how do I go about getting permission to put this on my blog? Not that my blog is as big as this one, but I do have a number of Obama supporters who come around (fewer and fewer as the race goes on—they don’t like to hear anything positive about Hillary Clinton).
Thanks for this post, it’s great and an eye opener!
GNATS in the msm don’t care and have’nt cared for a while….I’d send that to the ones who at least try…NPR might be a good start…If not you could send it to the British….Or msm hates it when the British show em up….
This statement is interesting regarding Florida:
The State Party argues that the Democrats in the legislature were robbed of meaningful power to stop the Republican effort to set an early primary date because Republicans drafted the controlling legislation and packed it with other unrelated issues which the Democrats in the legislature felt they could not in good conscience oppose.
So even here, it’s admitted that the Democrats in the legislature decided to vote for the plan knowing that it would strip of their delegates. It frankly does not matter that they “felt they could not in good conscience oppose” the bill on these other grounds. This is what legislating is all about. You fight for what you have to fight for, you compromise over what you accept as a compromise. If it was so important to the Florida Democrats in the legislature that their delegates were going to be stripped if they voted for the bill, they should never have voted for it. When they voted for it, they accepted the consequences.
Jeff….They were voting for paper trails at the voting booths….The FL democrats were held HOSTAGE and Dean the Putz knows it…Your candidate has refused a e-vote…WHAT IS HE AFRAID OF….Now bite your pillow…..
Jeff, Obama campaigned in Fla, so he should be disqualified as a candidate then, he broke rules and his word!
Hillary has hammered the stuffing out of Obama. He’s taking a day off, for crying out loud. Obama is a Scrabble player with no vowels. He’s calling a challenge to Hillary’s triple-letter double word score. Oh, look - here it is in the dictionary “vexation.” You lose. Sorry waffle boy.
“Obama is a Scrabble player with no vowels. He’s calling a challenge to Hillary’s triple-letter double word score.”
I fail to see how being behind in every legitimate count equates to a “triple-letter double word score”.
That’s a joke, OK? Politics ain’t Scrabble, that’s for sure!
Jeff…I don’t know how you walk upright with Obama’s foot so far up your ass….
“Jeff…I don’t know how you walk upright with Obama’s foot so far up your ass….”
You’ve got “Goebbels” and “fascist” left, and then I guess you’re all out of hyperbolic insults.
Ehemmmm…..Goose step in Unison Jeff…Your holdin up the line…
I have a Dream…that someday gets so fed up and disgusted with us clueless idiot Hillary supporters that he leaves for good.
We really aren’t worthy of your vast Obamawisdom, Jeff. Please don’t waste any more of your precious Obamaposts with us. Your talents are unappreciated here.
That someday JEFF gets so fed up, I meant to type.
You guys would miss me…I make this fun for you.
Is that what your mommy told you? That the little girls refuse to go near you because they like you so much? How sad.
That bad smell coming from your room? I dont think you found all the Easter Eggs.
Don’t worry, Jeff, you can feel free to leave. There are plenty of witless Obamabots with nothing to add who pop in at this site. You are nothing special- that’s just another lie your mommy told you.
Have to say….Jeff I enjoy insulting you really….How working class of me….You are at least an entertaining PILLOW BITER….
Did you get this assignment today? One of you seems to pop up every day or so. We’re flattered, frankly. And it’s always amusing. (Well, to a point. … because you all usually get all puffy and righteous.)
Did you get this assignment today?
I was here several days, ago, when you actually called my comment that I will be voting for Hillary in the GE “refreshing and dignified”. Susan, no one gets “assignments”. I come to No Quarter because I’m a political junkie with time to pass at work, and as an Obama supporter, I enjoy vigorous debate w/Hillary supporters. I started out at Taylor Marsh, got banned for expressing my pro-Obama opinions, and came here. That’s all. So far, you’ve been decent enough not to ban me. I appreciate that.
Ehmmm……Jeff…trolling on the company time…this is not very ethical….Using company time and pay on a political blog…Shame on you PILLOW BITER…LOL
Susan, they pop up when they are afraid and realize they don’t have a leg to stand on.