Party Cracking Up? And Do You Even Care?
By SusanUnPC on May 6, 2008 at 7:11 PM in Current Affairs
[COMMENTS ARE CLOSED - PLEASE USE ABOVE THREADS FOR MORE COMMENTS.]
Marc Ambinder writes that the polling results show the Democratic party with deep fissures. Right now, I’m so disgusted with the party that I don’t give a damn if it goes down in flames.
These primary voters may get some SELF-satisfaction out of voting for Barack Obama because it makes THEM feel good, but they are not THINKING AHEAD to the general election — when John McCain will easily trounce Obama if he’s the general election nominee.
Here’s what Ambinder wrote:
Forget the horse race numbers for a moment: if the surveys are accurate, the polarization within the Democratic Party has reached critical levels. Nearly six in ten Obama supporters in Indiana say they would be dissatisfied if Clinton were the nominee — that’s (I believe) the high percentage of Obama supporters who have ever said that.
In both IN and NC, two thirds of Clinton supporters say they’d be dissatisfied if Obama were the nominee — I believe that’s the highest number recorded for that question, too.
The percentage of Clinton voters who say they’d choose McCain over Obama in a general election is approaching 40% in Indiana. Put it another way: in North Carolina, less than HALF of folks who voted today for Hillary Clinton are ready to say today that they’d definitely vote for Obama in a general election.
The basic demographic breakdowns suggest that the black/white split has widened as well …
Frankly, my dears, I don’t give a damn. If the primary voters can’t think far enough ahead to anticipate who has the best chance of beating John McCain, they deserve their fate.
I am disgusted.
I hope Hillary keeps fighting with all she’s got. She — and we — know that she is the only candidate who has a realistic chance of beating John McCain.
REASON ONE: She is vastly stronger on national security issues than Obama, who has ZERO national security experience or knowledge.
REASON TWO: She knows what to do about our economic crisis, and Obama doesn’t even understand the capital gains tax — illustrated in that last ABC debate when Charlie Gibson had to explain it to him.
REASON THREE: She has ten times the stamina that Obama has. He has looked worn out, bored, distracted, and his mind isn’t working sharply. She is sharper than ever, and energized.
(I could add a dozen more reasons — and so can you, so please do so in the comments.)
God I wish people would stop voting for someone just because he has a skin color they like, or it assuages their white guilt, and use some COMMON SENSE.
I am so disgusted. 90% of African Americans voted for him and we’re to believe there is nothing racial going on here. He has lost the male white vote over the past month. If she had been able to get 15-20%of the the AA vote she would have won NC. We’re electing Capt. Smith for the Democratic Titanic
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gIZRFt8YBpM
This is the Democratic plan for fighting LT McCain USN.
Banzi Obama!
But, always, the ONUS is on the white voter. If we white voters don’t vote for the black, WE are the racists. However, if 90% of blacks vote for Obama primarily because he’s black, that’s cool. Someone explain the logic in this to me.
He’ll clean up in Oregon and Montana and the press will try to paper it over.
Then McCain wins.
Not only will McStain win but The One will take down many democrats below him on the ticket.
Forget about a veto proof congress.
The question is, “Will this split be the beginning of the end of the Democratic Party?”
As far as I’m concerned it is. I am a typical 65 yr white woman and a life long Democrat but I will be re-registering as an Independent. I will never contribute another dime to the DNC. These idiots do not understand what it will take to win the white house, control the congress and restore our economy and rebuild our national pride. What a bunch of losers!!
Ditto for this 60 yr old, life-long Democrat. We have been waiting for another FDR and we may have let her slip thru our fingers because the Washington elite has chosen an inexperienced novice for the candidate. RIP, Democratic Party.
I am a 69 year old white woman who has been a democrat since 1960. I worked the polls and worked for the Democratic party. I will soon be and independent if the Democratic party shoves Obama down my throat. I have never been racist in my life but today part of the party that I worked for calls me racist. Claims they don’t need my vote or my work for the party. They can go to hell I will never vote for Obama.
I’m with you! I’m a lifelong Dem, and I know that if they do this thing–the leadership strongarming delegates and shilling for Obama (I just threw up a little in my mouth typing his name), ignoring a real chance to win with overwhelming support of women, rural voters and Reagan Dems, and disfranchising 2 states with his help–then it deserves to go down in flames. I, for one, am one of the 28% who will defect. If Hillary no, McCain, hello.
I think people really need to educate themselves on what the word racist really means. It is certainly an energy charged, loaded word.
It doesn’t mean because you disagree with someone or because you don’t like someone who happens to be of another color.
We all have prejudices, preferences over ideals, etc. That doesn’t make a person a racist.
I am sick of that word. I haven’t ever heard it so much in so many ways and so out of context.
I would have told them to go to hell, too.
Racism. n. 1. The belief that one’s own race is superior. 2. A policy or practice based on racism. racist. ( adj ) one who practices racism. Randon House Dictionary.
RACISM IS NOT JUST A CRACKER HOBBY…..
as confirmed by the Obama campaign…..
Funny I live in the county where the Crackers ruled Georgia (and ironically where a rare Republican literally went into fisticuffs to bring down, as the Dixiecrats weren’t going to do it). Guess which candidate these Dems are endorsing?
Obama.
Doesn’t matter what color the candidate is, if the voter base knows how to exploit racism (a very sore subject here), they will do so for zero gains (as also demostrated by productivity in the region).
All I can say ChrisXP is that Obamas’ Ayatollah Pastor Wright believes in EUGENICS….It’s a left/brain - right/brain kinda THANG…..
Ditto!!!! I’m right behind you.
I am 2 months away from my 70th birthday and have been a “yellow dog” dem forever, but, should Obama becomes The Candidate, will very quickly be registered as an independent, due to my disgust with the present leadership and state of the Democratic Party. I think we must all contribute however much we can afford to the Clinton campaign, and that as often as possible.
If 90% of Jewish voters voted for Bloomberg in a Presidential election, would that be transparently, terribly racist?
Jeremy,
No and I would like it if Obama asked him to be his running mate…if Feingold refuses.
That would finish Obama off!
90% of Jewish voters would NOT vote for Bloomberg in a national election.
Agree…Obama would not choose a Jewish running mate anyhow
Wright and Farrakhan would not let him…..Against their POLITICAL THEOLOGY….
Agree…Until Non CRACKERS see that Racism aint just a caucasian hobby this shit will never get better….IMHO….
Anybody who thinks that racism is just a white affliction is more racist than the people that he (or she) is denouncing.
There is no reasonable explanation for it Susan. It is the elitist’s belief that black people cannot ever be racists because of the slavery past and because of their minority status in the population. And those elites are also the same Washington establishment Democrats that are supporting Barack Obama. They have hijacked our party.
“It is the elitist’s belief that black people cannot ever be racists because of the slavery past and because of their minority status in the population”
It is the height of ignorance, really. Elitists are ignorant! And they’ll never know it.
Racism permeates every race, every country on earth. It is NOT exclusive to white people, for chrissakes. Japanese hate the Chinese, the Chinese hate Vietnamese, and on and on. Look at the racial / religious fighting in India, and on and on.
The best we can do is try to be rational. If someone like MICHAEL NUTTER were running for president, I’d support him in a heartbeat! He needs more experience in elected office but I’d wholeheartedly support him when his time comes. He has character, and he has a work ethic. He isn’t a marketing genius’s made-up presidential candidate. He’s the real deal.
I like the way Avenue Q the musical handles the whole TRIBAL QUESTION…..With honesty….humor….and catchy tunes….
I’m just sayin’……
“Japanese hate the Chinese…”
Point of order: The Japanese hate everybody.
Gee Bob….all I can say is HAI !….( Yes ) in japanese…chuckle…..
That was a racist question. lol.
Why do you listen to that, if you know you’re not a racist?
They are using race as bait, a manufactured issue, don’t bite, it’s a troll, and a BAD one.
You know Susan, not only do I not care what happens to the Democratic Party at this point, I am now inured against the constant racist B/S.
I KNOW I have done much more that most of the DC idiots over the last 40 years to push the reality of MLK’s dream.
These stupid ignorant children throwing tantrums every time they do not get their own way leaves me totally disgusted and I have had it with that.
They can only put the ONUS on us, if we are willing to accept it. Let’s stop reacting to their idiocy.
I have to agree with you there. If the party doesn’t let this election roll and count EVERY frigging vote, I’m registering as an independent and the DNC can forgot about my shitty little couple hundred bucks that I shell out every Presidential election cycle. If there are others out there like me, those little checks might add up.
Maybe some pragmatic bastards with deep pockets will start up a third party for people like us–guilt free, pander free, focused on issues, and uninterested in nominating poster children who will get their clocks cleaned in the general. I suspect we’d be a majority in this nation in no time.
I may be off-base, but in Hillarys interview by Joe S on his show yesterday morning, the question of the Gas Tax came up, and of course Hillary explained it brilliantly. I cannot remember all the dialog but Joe said he agreed with Hillary’s reasoning because it was not democrat. Hillary said something to the effect that this is where the dems have made a big mistake, for so many years - not adressing the concerns of the working person.
I know she and Bill have been essentially part of the core of the democratic party, but I just wonder if they would entertain the notion of a party change? A NEW party…. Basically having many of the ideals of the democrats, but then combine some of the practicalities of the Repubs… I know, I know shame on me for even considering… But SOME repubs aren’t too bad. Even Hillary seems to think so! The democrats have all but turned their backs on Hillary and I for one am fed up with all the stupidity going on. I say if they want Obama, then they DESERVE him! I for one won’t be around. Count me in for a new party!
Racism is racism — Mrs. Obama is overtly racist.
Voting for someone by 90% is racism.
The Black Panter/Black power movement never went away. And this was an extremely racist movement. They started working with the young kids and taught them racism — in your face whitey racism. I watched it happen in the SF Bay Area. It was probably happening in other urban centers — I was merely at one place where I was able to see the racism being nurtured and fed by hatred.
This 90% vote is very disturbing. A whole lot of poor people have been hoodwinked and bamboozled by a guy who looks black. But Obama is really more interested in the color of money — and who has the money. Even in Hawaii he was more interested in wealth — and going to the “best” high school.
But hey — 10% of the voters were NOT fooled. The same percentage of people who were never fooled by bush — post 9/11.
Defeat?!!! Oh puleeze. Cant the twits stop mimicking what the experts (with no experience in natl politics themselves) on the cable news shows say?
Bill Schneider - one of the dumbest political “analyst” guys Ive ever met by the way - says that NC was good for Obama because he got 1/3 of the white vote.
Think about that for a minute and remember we are talking about red state DEMOCRATS here….
Lord.
April 10th Obama himself said that since PA was strong for Hillary and NC was strong for Obama - it would be Indiana that would be the TIEBREAKER… Remember he had been leading in the polls there since Feb5… This was another bad loss for Obama.
Now…will Obama do the honorable thing and withdraw - for the Good of the Party or is he gonna continue to divide this Party - and make us play this out till the inevitable end? (which will mean seating FL and MI btw)
Hmmm…
remember,
No one said fighting the Dashle/Kennedy K street crew and the nations “yuppies” - 100% of the entire media - dim witted college kids and a resent filled and ungrateful AA community - all at once would be easy.
I love your last paragraph. Actually, I love the entire comment, but the last paragraph is exceptional.
Janet,
If 90% of white America voted for Hillary would you be screaming about racism?
I knew she wouldn’t win. Check the archives here.
She’s done and her tactics killed her.
Imagine having those African-American voters shower you with expletives while you are standing outside a precinct distributing Clinton literature. I will not vote for Obama after what I had to endure today.
I am disgusted at the monolithic black vote (91% to 93%). This isn’t just identity politics, it is racism - they know he can’t win in the GE, they know that the Clintons are not racist and still they rally around a man who is only half black and has completely ignored them. As others have said, if whites had such a stark monolithic vote, there would be many more calling out racism (they already do but it would be even worse). I don’t care about the Democratic Party either if they cave to the intimidation from the blacks talking about riots if Obama is not given the nomination.
Shame on Barack Obama for dividing the Party and the Country. He has single handedly put race relations back generations.
On TalkLeft, one AA Hillary-supporting commenter said the media and even Wright thrashing Obama kind of made her feel for Obama for the first time. She thinks it made the AA really rally around him this time.
Heck even I thought Wright was being an ass to Obama.
That was another set up to keep the AAs in line and if you and the AA Hillary supporter are evidence, it worked! He can’t win and he has divided the Country on race. That will be his legacy as well as a historic loss in the GE if the Dems are stupid enough to give him the nomination.
This is what I said back then… This ranting by Wright was a calculated ploy by obama and campaign to do JUST THAT! The timing was just TOO coincidental.
If Obama is handed the nomination, I believe the best descriptive acronym for the Democratic Party is FUBAR (with the R standing for Recovery).
This is what pisses me off: of voters who were concerned about the economy, 65% went for Clinton. Older voters went 70% for Clinton. But if Obama doesn’t get it “all those young voters will be so disappointed. They are so hopeful and we don’t want to break their hearts.”
Note to our collective selves: in future elections, remember that mobilizing the young vote means to mobilize the rich, bratty young vote. Not worth it.
I’ve often said that the worst type of liberal is a college liberal (ditto: conservative). These kids need to learn that life is full of disappointments.
very disgusted, also getting very tired of hearing that because I support Hillary I’m just not as smart or not as educated as an Obama supporter 90% of the black vote what’s wrong with this picture?
Getting tired of being written off as some post-menopausal low-information voter for Hillary. I’m not even 40 yet!
AFCATFISH…..LOL…..I understand…..We shall overcome this bullshit…
Mimi,
I think you more than smart enough. Your comments are so good, I have used them when sending stuff to newspapers and Congress - all credit due you of course.
Please keep on writing here.
Nellie,
There’s another mimi on this comments thread. That’s not me.
Cnn reported (with tabs on their map) that he got the votes of people making 50 thousand or more and those 40 thousand, lost the votes of under those making less.
Also, Donna Brazile said on CNN tonight that the Democratic Party is changing and “we” don’t need the votes of working class people anymore. She stated the Party is younger and more educated and that is the New Democratic Party.
It will be on You Tube soon I’m sure. It was a radical statement.
so brazile doesn’t need working class people in her party? fine, working class people will leave her party. then let’s see how many elections they win.
and if brazile’s talking about being part of a younger party, she needs to look in a mirror.
What an ass. She best hope she doesn;t run into this ‘working class’ bitch in a dark alley… I’ll shove her ‘new dem party’ where the sun don;t shine and I will LOVE every minute of it!
labelladonna is poison to any campaign she has ever worked on so I don’t worry to much. Notice that she’s still a “talking head” and not a prominent advisor to Snoboma? He doesn’t want her either.
When the whole thing comes crashing down in November we will have the very last and loudest and most profound laugh.
It seems to be not only a racial divide but generational and class based on as well.
Obama is getting the young white college educated professionals by the shit load. Gen X’ers and Y’ers.
These are well off and economically isolated from the realities that most middle and working class people face daily. Basically they live in La-La land and fall for the tony robbins spiel of Barry.
He’s getting the no-nothing college snot goblin vote. Like the white collars these kids are economically and socially isolated as hell not to mention major bongers and drunkards. They no more know whats going on in the country than those cultists in Texas do.
What he’s not getting working class whites or most older whites as well and a lot of hispanics as well. The people who are the backbone of this country. Who become the firemen, nurses, soldiers, police, the factory workers, and the folks who stock our supermarkets, etc.
Newsflash: Paul Krugman is a little old lady with a highschool education.
I am so sick right now. I can’t believe NC.
Susan…You are asking people to use thier Intelligence..half the people in america have fried Brains..are zonked on Anti depressants..Boozers…Bongers and now they have been Programmed with Bomma Brains…All they know is what they get on the 6.00 oclock news after fighting traffic for two hours to get home…and all they hear is some kind of Drone Sound and something about the name of Obama repeated over and Over and something about Hope…sinking into thier Brains..
Our Younger generations, when asked, Think He’s COOL..and when pressed even more…roll thier eyes around and then say..Oh Yeh…Barack + Obama equals .
“CHANGE”…You know Dude, Change, like Changes things You Know…and then they stand there with a big Smile like they just said something really Profound…
For the First Time in my Adult Life…I feel shame for America..after eight years of President Bush and now seeing how the Left Wing Bundlers are trying to Buy Our Government using the same tactics that Rove did…Yes..I Feel Shame..Disgust and Anger..This is not the Government so many Great Americans have Fought For..or Died For…
Totally agree Susan. I think it may be a necessary dissolution.
And I still choose to have hope for that feisty Trumanesque Hillary Clinton.
But Everyone what do we do now!!! They’re going to start the Hillary must go spin after tonight. Oh and to add to my anger I had to Listen to Claire McCaskill a one time Senator acting as if she has bee in the Senate for 10 years. OH God
If there is one vote in my life that I wish I could get back, it is the one I cast for her many years ago when we lived in Missouri.
They’ve already started.
One HRC supporter took on the entire CNN panel last night, and demolished them.
He was off site, so as soon as they cut him off, they went back to funeralizing.
It might be time for Clinton to pack it up. She’s shown exactly why Obama is a liability but AAs think otherwise and are determined to press the issue of electing Obama despite glaring deficiencies.
It might be time to bow out gracefully and let the DNC imolate itself. Find somewhere to hide now before it goes completely insane.
According to FOX, she plans a Rules Challenge on Florida and Michigan, THIS month.
Good. I support that. We need another protest….one that I learn about before it actually occurs so I can make plans to be there.
You’re trolling Salo.
Think about it, please.
Just think.
Next thing you know, you believe this crap, and we have another team of Bush idiots in the white house, all who need to be diapered.
Really wanna go that way, again?
So lemme see if I get this straight…with over 40% of the Indiana vote tallied Clinton was “just holding onto an early lead” But with 1% of the vote counted obamalamadingdong WON N. Carolina? I mean, is it just me or what? This was on NPR fer crispies sakes. Like I said before, they give it to dingdong without counting Fl and Mi I am writing in Clinton and they can KISS MY ASS as far as any donations for the Democrats. PERIOD!
Well I think that given the AA population in NC, it was a safe call. I called it before they polls even closed.
it was based on 35% of the voters being AA
No way she could win with that turn out model.
Exactly.
Id Imperfectum Manet Confectum Erit, besa Cantavit !
( It aint’ over till it’s over and the Fat Lady has sung ! )
Well as I said, I would work my ass off against Obama, I’ll take four years of the old man and watch hillary show up and let him chase her around the country in a wheel chair for all I care.
I’m with you, Uppity.
Count me in- NO to Obama!
Me too. Since I’ve been eligible, I’ve voted Mondale, Dukakis, Clinton, Clinton, Gore, Kerry– and now I will vote for McCain.
We’ll nominate a REAL Democrat in 2012- John Warner? Ted Strickland? Evan Bayh? Whoever.
I will not vote for Obama No. Fucking. Way.
And neither will more than 42% of the populace in November.
I meant Mark Warner of course.
I’m with all of you. I’ll never vote for someone running such a hate-based campaign.
Why the hell not?! I don’t even trust a president Obama to nominate a decent Supreme Court candidate - he’ll cave to the right just to get his nominee confirmed. He’ll find just the nominee to please John Roberts. It won’t matter if he’s president.
That was the last thread with BO SusuanUnpc.
BO is such a Pelican Brief.
We just told Ben to fill up Senators Clinton’s gas tank.
According to Donnidiot the Nw Democratic Party is composed of Urban AA’s and Egg heads….Working class and Hispanics are unnecessary…..I feel that The Democratic Party is under seige…
OK Fine….I’ll stay long enough to proove my IRRELEVANCE with my vote and then start packin for living overseas…..Clinton is continuing to campaign and I admire that……But if Obama gets the nod…..He will unravel by early September…..What a Joke…..
I’ll work for writing in Hill. But she’s going to win Indiana, he’s going to win NC, so we’re basically back to where we were, and we fight on.
And, on that note, I bid you all a fond adieu!
oy fucking vey. Here I am, sweating in Mexico, and now these results. I’ll devote every ounce of energy to defeat that Poser if he steals the nomination.
How pathetic the Democratic Party is. Who are these people? Maybe I should stay down here.
Mary Jo ..it is called a vacation…your cats will be fed don’t sweat it.
Please don’t think about the fate of our nation if Obama or McCain become president. It is, by far, way too depressing.
When I heard McCain’s speech on healthcare and that “those people” should give up cigarettes to stay healthy. I thought Huh? Did I miss a part of the speech or something?
With Obama, everything —- will—- take—- a —-long—-time—–to—-do because he will have to think about every, single, thing very, very, very slowly.
We need someone who is already up on what is going down! Hillary was awesome with O’Reilly. She is the kind of person we need as President.
I saw the early exit polls showing Obama “the projected winner” in NC with 30,000 votes counted. Yet, Fox says that nearly 500,000 voted early. What is up with that????
Both their plans will leave too many uninsured and when that happens, the costs just keep rising for health insurance. Somebody has to pay for it.
With idiots like Kerry saying Hillary’s plan was a nonstarter, we will have a lot of work to do. Identifying each of everyone of the “washington politics as usual” as boy Obama likes to say and making sure that they all walk the plank if there is any expectation that universal health care has a chance.
It will take a long time because he will only work a 2 day week with a week vacation every month. Remember when he was in Chicago he only had to work 55 days a year out of 77 days.
He might be visiting Ayers telling him where to plant the bombs this time. He will be going to church to hear how the white people hurt him even his grandmother who raised him.
GOD HELP THIS COUNTRY IF HE GETS IN OFFICE.
If MI and FL are not brought into the national picture immediately and their votes counted, and if Obama is the Democratic nominee, I will not vote for president in November. If MI and FL are returned to the national picture immediately and their votes counted, then I will vote for the Democratic nominee whomever it is.
Dean is running out of time. And the Democratic loss in the November election will rest entirely on his shoulders.
Fox said today that Hillary is forcing a Rules Challenge this month. SHe’s not waiting for them to shanghai her in June. She wins it or she loses it.
Good for her, and she’s right.
to shanghai her??
what in the world are you talking about?
he out-organized. out-strategized and out-raised her. he’s won more states, more caucuses, more votes, and more pledged delegates. since the beginning of the year, he’s garnered more supers.
how in the world does this constitute ’stealing’?
I really love that “won more states” argument. In what universe does that mean anything?
He has no plans, no policies but for those stolen from someone else, his charisma seems to be deserting him with every demographic except AAs and the ivory tower bunch and is surrounded by a bunch of thugs and crooks that makes Nixon’s group look positively cuddly. But still Dean and the media try to shove him in as the nominee despite the fact that most of his wins have come in states that will never go Dem in the fall and that a good portion of usually dependable Dem voters have vowed never to vote for him.
It is lunacy.
We don’t really want to be lectured from people who think that the chicago style politics is a good replacement for washington politics.
Mark my words. If he’s the candidate, Karl Rove will have a FIELD DAY with that comparison.
Son, someone is giving you a blow j**.
You really believe that?
(Yes, you do).
Such a great war room, go to real war with it…
Oh, yeah, Iraq…
LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL
Maybe you got trolled.
When Obama loses in November many will blame Hillary. But in the aftermath the Democratic Party will, to use your term, ‘crack up.’ And I will be waiting in the wings to help start and build a new Party, and make sure Dean and Co. does not run it; and that a new colation be built around the old FDR coaltion. And I will just pray that Hillary is not so damaged by all the crap that has been thrown at her by this dirty old style Chicago machine smack down that she can run again in 2012.
However, I have not lost all hope yet because of NC. She can still pull defeat out of this travesty we are calling the Democratic Party. I hope she does not drop out no matter how many people call for it.