According to Obama, Hillary is Winning
By Bud White on May 14, 2008 at 2:23 PM in Barack Obama, DNC, Florida, Hillary Clinton, Michigan, Superdelegates, West Virginia
The Obama campaign has argued that Super Delegates ought to vote in accordance with the “will” of the people. Really? Then let’s run the numbers. Under that metric, who would have a lead in Super Delegates? The Super Delegate total from the states that Hillary has won thus far (including FL and MI) is 418, to Obama’s 372. If the MI delegates are split 50/50, Clinton still wins 403.5 to Obama’s 386.5. If Super Delegates are counted according to Barack’s formula, Hillary wins the nomination. Period.
The numbers are even more impressive after Hillary crushed Obama in West Virginia. WV has 11 Superdelegates. Hillary is now ahead, even if you exclude FL and MI: she leads 374 to Obama’s 372.
DO WE ALL REALIZE HOW DAMN IMPORTANT THIS IS?
Larry has been chomping at the bit to get this posted! And now it is! LARRY JOHNSON KNOWS that this means that the Obama campaign — by its own metrics — has awarded the nomination, if done fairly, to HILLARY CLINTON.
SPREAD THE WORD!
BRILLIANT! SEND IT TO HILLARY. LOL ~Halli Casser-Jayne
http://www.thecjpoliticalreport.com
Unbelievable ! I knew she was getting screwed by MANY of the SD because they were not going with the will of the people. (which by the way is NOT the purpose of the SD) but I had no idea it was this strong.
I hope Hillary comes out screaming about this !
algebra, more exactly addition it is not too difficult, isn’t it?!
even un-educated voters can figure it out
Will wonders never cease!
So CNN John Gibbs, is wrong?
love it!
I can’t wait for the W.O.R.M. on this one.
THIS PROOVES MONEY TALKS….HE IS BUYING THE SD’S….Oh we need the list of names to tie into this list…EXCELLENT WORK…
I am glad that some people have the patience to figure out how the numbers play out. Thanks for all your effort as it is important the everyone understand the implications of the delegate process, and of the popular vote totals.
Is there any way to show how much money Obama’s PAC gave to each SD? That could be revealing.
Absolutely. Not to mention, Obama got a lot of his votes - especially his popular vote - before any real vetting began. He has done horribly with the voters since (with the exception of NC…and even there Clinton ate into his tremendous early lead).
Actually, the declaration that Obama won the popular vote is a straw man. That propoganda has been repeated so much that people accept it as a fact.
Most of Obama’s wins are in caucus states. These are not Primaries where you have a direct popular vote. They’re using a formula to extrapolate the numbers in the caucus states. I would assume that they’re saying that each delegate represented so many thousand of votes. But that not’s really the popular vote, which would be the actual number of caucus voters who voted in each states. Probably more like a couple of hundred thousand direct votes in the caucus states instead of the millions that they’re citing.
I repeat, Obama has not won the popular vote. Period.
I really hope Hillary can pull this off. I doubt Obama will be able to beat McCain in November.
The Precious will find metrics more suitable to his narrative. The Precious will not be denied what is his for the stealing.
Does anyone have the time to do this county by county? Considering the maps we saw yesterday on counties, I think Hillary would come out way ahead.
Carolyn Kay
MakeThemAccountable.com
Called a stupid, white-trash racist because I voted for Hillary. When does the Unity start
Wow!
Since according to his own philosophy regarding superdelegates, and since he called INDIANA the “tie-breaker”…
Doesn’t this mean that, according to NOObama, HILLARY IS DOUBLY WINNING?
Lin is totally right. The Pretender has lost a lot of momentum since the media started vetting him.
The exit polls tell a sad tale for Dems in November if NOObama is the candidate.
When I said this to a friend who is an Obama supporter, she said, “No, no, by the will of the people we meant the TOTAL vote, not the votes of the Superdelegates constituents.” So now it’s not just W.O.R.M., but also W.O.S.R.M. (What Obama’s Supporters Really Meant).
I read this on HillBuzz, which should be a point Hillary should bring up to the MSM:
“If Super Delegates are counted according to Barack’s formula, Hillary wins the nomination.”
No, you don’t make sense. Obama has 154 more PLEDGED delegates as it stands (not counting MI and FL). Even if we count them and give Obama the uncommitted ones, he’s ahead by 98 pledged delegates
Even with your formula for the superdelegates, Hillary can’t cover even HALF of that difference, and she loses the nomination still.
You aren’t making sense.
ARIS..These delegates ” PLEDGE ” to get the money from OBAMA…THEY ARE NOT BOUND BY THOSE PLEDGES…
** YOU NEED TO READ UP ON PARTY HISTORY **
Anything can happen…The Democratic Party has nominated candidates for the general election WHO DID NOT EVEN RUN IN THE PRIMARIES….
*** ANYTHING CAN HAPPEN…IT HAS…IT WILL…OBAMA DOES NOT HAVE THIS SEWN UP BY ANY MEANS….YOU BETTER STUDY UP….***
And I honestly wonder — 17 comments before my own, and nobody even noticed this isn’t making sense? Do you people believe the pledged delegates are nullified or something?
The pledged delegates still have their own votes, it’s not enough for Hillary to win the superdelegates ALONE, she needs to win them by big enough margins make up the difference.
Anyway, I’m all in favor of using this formula, since it ensures an Obama win.
Aris Katsaris: You obviously still do not understand that neither Obama nor Clinton will reach the stipulated number in pledged delegates alone to secure the nomination. So it is about SD.
It seems you are not familiar with the actual rules…No wonder it seems to make no sense to you.
Aris Katsaris,why honestly wonder, if your comment is number 18 or number 20,you can’t figure the formula, because your idol is losing!
Opps, you might be missing a toe!!Count, count, count, Aris.
How about forwarding this to the news media asap?
This is to Obama taking his own medicine. LOL.
Yesterday’s CNN election news,Donna B.(CNN parasite )was so sour face,like a rotten lemon. When asked by Campbell regarding the Florida & Michigan’s fiasco,she already gave her negative answer.It is very obvious, that her decision is favoring her candidate.For her, there are only 48 states while her
Obama said there are 57 states !!! He is not smarter than the fifth grade!!!
I guess they would announce superdelegates today. They always do when Hillary makes Barky look like a fool. They release them in a timely way. Only this time I thought it was really absurd. I mean America noticed that he just got trounced and then they see the ‘establishment’ ignore it in their faces.
Then Barky will announce he’s the winner on the 20th after getting trounced twice again, without the numbers and even people who aren’t politics junkies are saying WTF? My neighbor who couldn’t care less about politics actually said that today.
The fix is in folks. But the vote isn’t until August. The actual vote that is. I do hope Barky’s skeleton closet can wait. From my experience, I kind of doubt it myself but hey that’s just me.What do I know, Heh.
They always do when Hillary makes Barky look like a fool.
Uppity; HRC does nothing; Obama is a fool
and the people of WV just call his bluff.
But I thought Obama supporters, when Hillary was ahead in super delegates, said that was undemocratic and let the voters decide. Now that she’s ahead in the popular vote it’s “let the super delegates decide”. Hmm.
Superdelegates are supposed to be outside of the influence of the results of the primary. However, at a time when Sen Clinton was ahead in SD, the Obama media army started a drive to influence the population that the SD has to go with the will of the electorate.
Now, we don’t hear that anymore from the Obama media army.
Amazing… you people still don’t get it, even though I spelled out the math for you.
Andy you said: “So it is about SD.”
Yes, Andy. The point is that if Obama has a 100 PLEDGED delegate lead, he’ll need e.g. 100 fewer SDs than Clinton does. If Obama has a 150 pledged delegate lead, he’ll need 150 fewer SDs than Clinton, etc.
So your formula doesn’t give Clinton ENOUGH SDs, even though it gives her more than it gives Obama. Your formula gives her a mere edge of 40 or 50 at the very best. It’s not enough for her.
Get it now?
I doubt you will.
You are the one who does not get it, Aris. The super can change back and forth whenever they want. Also, all the ones that are endorsing him are part of his strategy. Hillary won PA and Ohio, and B. Richarson endorsed Obama. Hillary won WV(run over him,really), and J. Edwards endorsed Obama. Doing this, and with the help of the bias media,he is always on the front page. Big money buys a lot of things, entiendes? He ignored WV and Kentucky to send the message to the voters that they did not need to go out and vote. That this was over, that he was the nominee. His arrogance slapped him on the face, and the voters kicked him on his…….
Damn Aris. I hope that other Obamabots are better with reading comprehension than you.
But then again, if they were, they would have ditched the nonsensical puppet a long time ago.
Suggestion: Re-read the article, and if you still don’t understand the substance (a strange word for people like you) of it, then ask a friend to assist you with deciphering the very straightforward meaning of it.
Brandy, the article says “If Super Delegates are counted according to Barack’s formula, Hillary wins the nomination. Period.”
The article is wrong. If superdelegates are counted according to this formula, Hillary wins a slim majority of SDs but it’s Obama that wins the nomination. Period.
I gave you the numbers. When you keep denying the mere facts of addition and subtraction, you just make yourself and your fellow Clinton supporters look bad.
But I’m all in favor of sending this formula as an email to the superdelegates and thus helping Obama to win. Am on your side on this. Go right ahead.
Please send it as soon as possible. Also, ask them for help because you need it. Yes, use your brain… you are being bw.
the big endorsement comes at 7pm E?!
in MI
John Edwards for the golden boy
and the edwards goes tooooo ………………………………………………………
open envelope
Aris, you’re arguing with people who by and large think the world is flat obviously…This whole post makes no sense…and the comment on congressional districts makes even less…
Edwards is playing for something maybe VP, these guys will do anything to damper Hillary’s win and make her look as if she is just wasting her time, its really sad what is going on in the democrat party.
What kind of twisted logic is this article? You’re taking the super delegates and allocating them totally based on the winner of the state? And you say that’s what Obama said?
The attempts to rationalize Clinton winning now is getting crazier and crazier.
No, this is wrong. Following this formula, even including FL and MI, she is ahead in the Superdelegate total by 48. He is still + 153 in pledged delegates.
So that still leaves him at + 105 in total delegates.
That doesn’t even address the other problem, which is that this is a winner take all system. Much like the pledged delegates, it should also be proportional, which would probably put him slightly ahead in total.
Not that it really matters, since this is an imaginary system.
Jason, math aside it is a big mistake to have primaries with totally different rules than the general election. Hence, unless we change the winner take all rules at the general election the democratic primaries logically should have the same rules. If it was the case guess who would have secured the nomination a long time ago? Not your candidate Obama. The republicans have the same rules and they have long decided who their candidate will be. Why do the democrats have different rules you might ask. Well, because they wanted to give something to a loser presidential candidate, McGowern, who changed the rules to make it easier for insurgent left wing candidates, like himself, to get the nomination. Its high time to change the rules back. And hopefully we will after we had another loser left wing candidate, Obama.
I am glad someone actually giving the facts ..instead of bias news coverage..actually it is worse than that…she leads in electorial votes by 60 ..over Barack Hussein Obama…the shady associated nominee who didn’t even speak last night at least congratulate Hillary ..Sour grapes Obama …shows what a wuss he is.
Edwards was already a loser in this race and is looking for some scraps called the Vice President position..what a loser to endorse Obama after he didn’t win one county in West Virgina and..lost the majority of primaries for the third month in a row…Edwards sour grapes to Hillary…Well Edwards you just shot yourself in the foot on that one..and if you think it helped Obama..why would it??? You are a loser and proved it again.
Very interesting article - I think it is funny how by the end of all the primaries Hillary will probably win the popular vote. If you count all of the caucuses and all the primaries (including MI and FL), Hillay will most likely win the popular vote. She will lose Oregon by around 10-20% but this will be off set by her 30% win in Kentucky. In fact, after the 20th, Obama’s popular vote “lead” will probably be 0. Then, South Dakota and Montana vote - which will put Obama ahead by a relatively small amount (I would say 150,000). Puerto Rico votes then and Hillary wins I would think by 200,000. So when it is all said and done, Hillary will probably win the popular vote. Either way, the popular vote is going to be close and the pledged delegates should reflect a close popular vote (which they don’t). The caucuses are ridiculus because they don’t represent the pubic at all - and all of the charges of voter fraud in the caucuses against Obama is horrifying. Hillary should have won Texas’s caucus but Obama supporters rigged it against her. The caucus in Washington state should have been much closer (should have represented the primary they had 2 weeks later). In Wash., Hillary lost the caucus by around 15-20% but only lost the primary by 5-10%. So if the popular vote is looked at, the super delegates should be split down the middle. The popular vote is the most important because it actually represents the people - delegates do not - they are more of an estimate. Let’s put things on a fair playing field. After this nomination process, I say no more caucuses or Super Delegates.
Also let me just add- I think all states should have primaries all held between January and May. And who ever wins the most votes at the end is the nominee. If they don’t do that and keep the pledged delegates, make all of the states winner-take-all states. Look at the Republicans - they are sitting happy now because their party is healing already while Democrats are dividing. I voted for Hillary and will vote for McCain if they nomination process isn’t fair. I will give a little consideration for Obama if Clinton is the VP but more than likely that won’t happen. Michelle Obama hates her and Bill and she wears the pants over Barack. I know Hillary said today a vote for McCain over Obama is a mistake but she is just trying to heal the party now. In reality, I want McCain to beat Obama so Hillary can run again in 2012. After Obama gets beat by McCain in Nov., maybe they won’t nominate a man who can’t carry the swing states (OH and FL gave the presidency to Bush - look at the polls in those two states for Obama and McCain - not looking good for Obama)that determine our president every election.
I don’t understand Obama’s “mandate”. Why is he doing this “Mission Accomplished” dance so prematurely? His campaign seems more like a “do nothing” race.
Don’t have to get insurance, don’t have to get voted for, don’t have to show up at the Afghanistan meetings, don’t have to participate in democratic elections or acknowledge them when they happen.
I think his “bold leadership” is getting him into the Oval Office while there are still a lot of voters answers to listen to.
When Obama wins North Carolina, a state that favors him demographically by 14 points, everyone is impressed and flock to his unity;
When Clinton wins West Virginia, a state that favors her, by 41 (forty-one!) points, she is dividing the party and needs to get out of the way.
Truth is, he is not a “think on the feet” type of guy. He was able to stop the bleeding my turning his back on a 5th debate before Indiana and N.C. He would not be in the race now if he hadn’t demanded to hold his debate on passover.
His dismal performance at the Petraeus interview and in nonscripted forums shows he musta taken more than a page out of more than GWB’s playbook, he read the whole thing, and payed special attention to the copy of ‘My Pet Goat’ stuck in the middle of it.
Aww, I’ll probably end up voting for him next time around, but I’ll know for sure that my vote really doesn’t count.
http://politicalhumor.about.com/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm?zi=1/XJ&sdn=politicalhumor&cdn=entertainment&tm=18&gps=207_133_1276_844&f=00&su=p284.8.150.ip_&tt=9&bt=0&bts=0&zu=http%3A//www.thememoryhole.org/911/bush-911.htm
Sweet revenge is awaiting the dems dumped and snubbed by snobama. Dean and his merry band of losers, (edwards, etc.) shoved this idiot snobama down out throats and we will take our votes to the candidate who really appreciates us.
Any independent, libertatian candidates out there, start your engines we are all waiting to give you our votes and money.
Right on !!!…There are just too many “Judases” in that DNC Committee. I will vote for any candidate,
Republican, Independent, to defeat Obama.
Here is a McClatchy article with some info on how much money Barack is giving delegates. This is very important for the public to know, another thing I feel is important is how many Superdelegates who’s states went Clinton then betrayed those voters and threw in with Obama. Does anyone know the count? I know Kerry,Kennedy and Richardson all betrayed their voters, I bet there are more.
http://www.mcclatchydc.com/homepage/story/31905.html
[…] According to Obama, Hillary is Winning (by Joyan and Bud White at No Quarter) The Obama campaign has argued that Super Delegates ought to vote in accordance with the “will” of the people. Really? Then let’s run the numbers. Under that metric, who would have a lead in Super Delegates? The Super Delegate total from the states that Hillary has won thus far (including FL and MI) is 418, to Obama’s 372. If the MI delegates are split 50/50, Clinton still wins 403.5 to Obama’s 386.5. If Super Delegates are counted according to Barack’s formula, Hillary wins the nomination. Period. Click through to see the state by state count. […]
[…] According to Obama, Hillary is Winning (by Joyan and Bud White at No Quarter) The Obama campaign has argued that Super Delegates ought to vote in accordance with the “will” of the people. Really? Then let’s run the numbers. Under that metric, who would have a lead in Super Delegates? The Super Delegate total from the states that Hillary has won thus far (including FL and MI) is 418, to Obama’s 372. If the MI delegates are split 50/50, Clinton still wins 403.5 to Obama’s 386.5. If Super Delegates are counted according to Barack’s formula, Hillary wins the nomination. Period. Click through to see the state by state count. […]
She has won mor congressional districts, which further supports the argument that she is the will of the people. Sadly, Obama has bought SDs and I don’t know how we can counter that.
We need to contact the superdelegtes and remind them that the DNC, Pelosi and Obama are saying “it should be the will of the people” Well, Hillary has won more congressional districts. Let’s get this out in the media….Superdelegates betraying voters.
[…] TalkLeft, Bud White […]
The Obama campaign has gathered lots of young people into the political process this cycle, which is great provided this represents serious political opinion and analysis. But it is no good if the thought is “What devilish fun this is to get away from the old folks and attend the Obama rock concert with our friends!”
If you look closely, it’s easy to see the major flaw in these spreadsheets. States are not “winner take all”….so why are Super Delegates in this hypothetical system?
She narrowly won Indiana, so why should she receive ALL of their super delegates? The same can be said for each state in the spreadsheet.
This is kinda ironic. Obama says the supers should follow the will of the people and Clinton says the supers should decide on which candidate would be the best nominee.
So according to Obama, Clinton wins.
But, according to Clinton, Obama wins.
Seems like you can spin this either way. Not a very conclusive examination.
I love you!! Take that, Chuck Todd!!!!!!
This thread doesn’t make any sense. It assumes that whoever wins the super delegates wins the nomination. As Aris has said several times, Obama is up 150 pledged delegates, so even counting MI and FL in this nonsensical winner-take-all hypothesis, she still doesn’t make up enough ground to get the nomination. If you truly want to say that the supers should represent the will of the people, they should represent the will of their districts. Which means the supers would not be winner take all. And the number of supers is not proportional to population. Why should California only get 20% supers to pledged delegates, when D.C. gets twice as many supers as pledged delegates. Hillary agreed to the rules when she signed up to campaign. Proportional representation (the more democratic way, little d), FL and MI don’t count, and supers can vote however they want. And for those saying Hillary is leading the popular vote, go back and check you totals, Obama is leading the popular vote by 600,000. Democrats unite against McCain, don’t bite off your nose to spite your face.
No kidding. It’s Hillary or nobody.
Get this word out far and wide, Larry — please!!!
[…] or state. It looks like now if we apply the Nichols Method Hillary wins under every scenario. NO QUARTER The Obama campaign has argued that Super Delegates ought to vote in accordance with the “will” […]
LETS BE REAL HERE, THE TRUTH ! THE MEDIA,THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY DO NOT WANT A FEMALE IN CHARGE!CHRIS MATTHEWS,AKA ,BIG MOUTH ,KIETH OLBERMAN, DONT YOU LOVE THOSE BROWS? WOLF BLITZER, JOHN KING, AND THE LIST GOES ON AND ON .ELECTIONS ARE NOT ABOUT THE PEOPLE OR THEIR CHOICES ITS MONEY AND WHO CAN DO WHAT FOR ME! JOHN EDWARDS, BILL RICHARDSON ARE TRUE EXAMPLES OF THAT ! THE ONE GOOD THING ABOUT THE MEDIA IS THAT THEY HAVE OPENED OUR EYES TO THE TRUTH ABOUT WHAT POLITICS IS REALLY ALL ABOUT AND THE MEDIA PLAYS A BIG PART IN THIS POLITICAL CORRUPTION.THE AMERICAN PEOPLE SHOULD SAY ENOUGH! I AM REALLY STARTING TO WONDER WHY ANY OF US SHOULD VOTE DEMOCRAT? THE DEMOCRATS SCREWED UP 2000. THEY TOOK MILLIONS OF PEOPLES VOICES AWAY FROM FLORIDA AND MICHIGAN.OH, BUT WAIT, THEY WILL INCLUDE THEM AFTER SUPER DELEGATES FLOCK TO OBAMA AND TRY TO MAKE FLORIDA AND MICHIGAN FEEL AS THOUGH THEIR VOICES ARE BEING HEARD AND REPRESENTED. WHAT A JOKE! TOO LATE! THE DEMOCRATS REALLY THINK THE AMERICAN PEOPLE ARE DUMB!I SAY, WE, THE PEOPLE, NEED TO PROVE WE WILL NOT TOLERATE THIS UNAMERICAN BEHAVIOR ANYMORE! WE NEED TO ABANDON THE DEMOCRAT PARTY AND ALL SUPPORT INDEPENDENCE! THE DEMS,THE REP THEY ARE ALL A BUNCH OF ARROGANT IDIOTS!I SAY TO HILLARY SUPPORTERS DO NOT VOTE FOR OBAMA, VOTE INDEPENDENT OR DONT VOTE AT ALL.THE DEMS DONT DESERVE OUR SUPPORT! OR,WE CAN SEND A LOUDER MESSAGE AND VOTE MCCAIN.THATS HARD TO STOMACH BUT LETS FACE IT,HE WILL ONLY BE A ONE TERM PRESIDENT AND IT WILL TAKE FOUR YEARS TO GET US OUT OF THE MESS WE ARE IN ANYWAY. solutions,lets take back our voices!lets talk really loud in november! ……….joann
I’m with you!
Thanks for this post, and the work you did to calculate it. It is so true, she is our nominee.
Money+Media=Obama
People+Democracy=Hillary
This was from a previous post
Who are the Super delegates? Elected Congressmen & Congresswomen, Governors, State Party Officials, Former High Ranking Party Officials, and State-level congressional leaders.
Despite all of the early talk about these leaders voting with the people, it is surprising how many of them have not. For Instance Below is the list of House Members, Senators, and Governors not voting along the lines of their constituents, along with any recorded contributions from Clinton or Obama. (Isn’t their obligation first and foremost to their constituents?)
Elected Officials Voting for Clinton Who’s Constituents Voted for Obama
Michael Thompson – California (Obama won by 500 votes)
Doris Matsui – Cal.
Lynn Woolsey – Cal.
Diane Watson – Cal .
Maxine Walters – Cal.
Laura Richardson – Cal.
Rep. Dutch Ruppersberger – Maryland
Gov. Martin O’Malley – Maryland
Elected Officials Voting for Obama Who’s constituents voted for Clinton
Robert Cramer – Alabama
Gov. Janet Napalitano – Arizona
George Miller – California
Gerald McNerney – California - Obama Donation $5,000
Fortney Pete Stark – California
Zoe Lofgren – Cal.
Howard Berman – Cal.
Adam Schiff – Cal.
Henry Waxman – Cal
Linda Sanchez – Cal
Joe Donnely – Indiana - Obama $7,500 Donation
Baron Hill – Indiana – Obama $12,500 Donation
Ben Chandler – Kentucky – wow Obama drew less than 10%
Bill Delahunt – Massachussetts
Gov. Deval Patrick Mass.
Sen. Ted Kennedy Mass. - $10,000 from both candidates
Sen. John Kerry – Mass.
Gov. Bill Richardson – New Mexico
Carol Shea-Porter – New Hampshire
Gov. Brad Henry – Oklahoma
Patrick Murphy – PA Donations from Clinton $2500 Obama $18,826
Sen. Bob Casey – PA
Patrick Kennedy – RI
Charlie Gonzalez - Texas
Eddie Johnson - Texas
Rick Boucher – Virginia
Nick Rahal – WV
Sen. Robert Byrd –WV $10,000 from both candidates
Sen. John D. Rockefeller IV – WV - Obama $5000 Donation
Here’s some interesting one’s that are undeclared whose constituents voted for Clinton (please note the donations):
Sam Farr – Cal.
Jim Costa – Cal. - Obama Donation $5,000
Bob Filner – Cal
Joe Courtney – Connecticut - Obama $5,000 Donation
Gov. Steve Beshear – Kentucky
Rep. John Oliver – Massachussetts
Rep. Niki Tsongas – Mass. – Obama $5,000 donation
John Tierney – Mass.
Ed Markey – Mass
Travis Childers – Mississippi
Sen.. Frank Lautenberg – New Jersey - Obama $9,000
Gov. John Lynch – New Hampshire
Charlie Wilson – Ohio – Obama $7,000
Marci Kaptur – Ohio
Dennis Kucinich – Ohio
Zack Space – Ohio - Obama $7500
Sen. Sherrod Brown – Ohio $10,000 from both
Dan Boren – Oklahoma
Jason Altmire – PA - Obama $10,000
Tim Holden – PA
Gabriel Gifford – Arizona Obama Donation $9,000
Michael Honda – California
Sen. Jack Reed – RI – Obama $5,000
Lincoln Davis – Tennessee
Bart Gordon – Tennessee
Gov. Phil Bredesen – Tenn.
Nick Lampsen – Texas - Obama $5,000
Alan Mollohan – WV
Gov. Joe Manchin – WV
6vThank’s.1f I compleatly agree with last post. cms
ламинат и паркет 8l