Karl Rove’s Maps PROVE Hillary Can Beat McCain, but Guess Who Can’t
By SusanUnPC on May 19, 2008 at 3:44 PM in ABC News, Barack Obama, Hillary Clinton
Rove’s Latest Electoral Maps Have Clinton Stronger Than Obama Against McCain
Via ABC News’s Political Punch blog:
Electoral maps put together by the consulting firm helmed by Karl Rove, and obtained by ABC News, show Sen. Hillary Clinton, D-NY, to be a stronger general election candidate in a hypothetical general election match-up against Sen. John McCain, R-Ariz., than Sen. Barack Obama, D-Illinois.
VERSUS:
Go here to see more maps and trend lines for the electoral college.
The pod people don`t want to see that. They have blinders on. Nov 4 will be quite a shock to them.
Actually, they’re going to get a shock before that when Hillary wins the nomination. sorry pod people–but you should have looked under your bed before you went to sleep–cause that’s when the Obamanites put the pods there. (you know-invasion of the body snatchers and all)
Damned straight.
This party has left the planet.
This party has left the Milky Way!
Nov 4 will be quite a shock to them.
And they will bear the responsibility for what happens to the rest of us.
I don’t like that. But how to you get a first time voter to think?
Nice, Susan, I especially love that in the match up of McCain v. Obama on Florida, McCain takes it–current polls back this up. Take that you stupid, vote-robbing Axelrod, Brazille, Dean, and Barky. That’s the good, fair-minded people of Florida letting you know your shit stinks and you ain’t gettin’ over on them–not now and not ever.
It’s the ELECTORAL COLLEGE, stupid. Just ask Al Gore! Dear Dr. Dean and superdelegates, ignore this at our peril. I also think she has a decent chance of winning a few of the bigger toss-ups AND possibly turn a red to blue (which she really wouldn’t need at that point).
Poor DNC, they could have saved SO much money by hiring a few of us voters to give analysis from the real world.
Dean made a total screw up of his own candidacy. I don’t see how anyone can expect him to do better for this one.
Remember we are getting a two for one screw up team — Donna Brazile — the other big loser of losers.
I do believe that these two individuals are traitors to America.
How does the DNC deal with the future of the party? Reward losers! WTF? It woul be funny if it weren’t so miserably ironic.
If the DNC still refuses to acknowledge the will of the voters, despite the overwhelming evidence that only Hillary can beat McCain in November, if they still give the nomintion to Obama, I say then it will be time to destroy the Democratic Party, that all registered Dems who feel they were ignored and dismissed by their own party leaders should immediately go to their town halls and switch their party affiliation to Independent. I know I’m going to; I look forward to it!
I’m right behind you.
NWRain–in calling them traitors, I think you are forgetting “Hanlon’s Razor”, which says,
“Never assume malice where stupidity will provide an adequate explanation.”
Great quote! Thanks for sharing it. More to the point, that’s exactly what’s going on here.
The establishment party types are committed to Obama for a number of insider reasons and possibly because they just like him and have scores to settle with Bill Clinton for failing to deliver because he was so busy deaing with zippergate.
But they are also running scared, afraid of losing future elections for having turned off new voters and black voters in this one.
One of the things the Clintons have taught us, however, is that you have to concentrate on one contest at a time, whether that’s the current primary or the general election this year. One can argue that the Dem party should be more visionary, but I think you can have both — win now and organize on every local and state level for the future.
http://insightanalytical.wordpress.com/
Is Obama an “Honorable” Candidate?
One blogger thought so, but what do YOU think??
He’s a cheater. There’s nothing honorable about that.
He’s scum.
He is a liar, a racist, inexperienced, inept, silly, dangerous, and he slandered Bill Clinton. Unforgiveable.
Gloria, what’s “honorable” about Obama? Flipping Hillary off is honorable? DISGUSTING!!!
Posting that video in his website, showing his wide grin & laughter from his minions, is UNDIGNIFIED!!
HE HAS NO CLASS!!!(invoking “gangsta” lyrics)
HE IS DOUBLE STANDARD!!(ok for Michelle to be a racist,but NOT the whitey folks!)
HE IS A COWARD (running from Hillary’s challenge to debate her, their 4th, one on one)
HE IS A LIAR!! (he is a “drama queen”, telling us that his KENYAN CITIZEN father’s coffin was draped with USA flag!!)
HE IS A COPY-CAT!!( now “copying” Hillary’s universal health insurance!!)
HE IS RUDE!! (attacking the seating President, while in a foreign soil, how rude!!)
HE IS A PHONY!!(for political reason, he is now wearing the USA flag lapel pin!!FAKE!)
SENATOR HILLARY CLINTON HAS ALL THE QUALITIES OF A QUALIFIED USA PRESIDENT!!GOD BLESS AMERICA!!
Hillary is the most evil incarnate of Satan. I wish she’d just go away. Her husband was a great president, but that doesn’t mean she would be.
McCain is nothing but McSame. Same as it ever was, a third term for Bush.
Obama offers hope. Experience means nothing. How, exactly does one get experience as president? By sleeping with Bill? No? By being a prisoner of war, and marrying an adulteress? No.
The US needs change, BADLY. Obama offers that. McSame doesn’t. Hillary doesn’t.
Can you imagine that whole map turning red after video surfaces of Michell Obama preaching against whitey?
I’ve been a democrat my entire adult life, now my Father (a republican) and I finally agree, McCain is better than Obama!
See? Obama is uniting people already, LOL.
I’m surrounded by disapointed Republican family members desperate to argue politics with me, but for the first time in 30 yrs I’ve got no argument to offer.
I saw a snake on a nature show on telly today that’s better than Obama.
This is basically the same as http://electoral-vote.com except that Rove doesn’t actually give the electoral votes to the winner if the polls are close.
Doesn’t anybody remember Rove’s secret numbers that showed the 2006 elections would keep both the House and Senate in Republican hands. How’d that work out for you?
Are you kidding me? This is not new, what Karl Rove is saying has been common knowledge for a while now.
http://electoral-vote.com has Obama vs. McCain losing the electoral vote by 242 to 285 and Clinton winning by 284 to 237.
Just because Karl Rove says it doesn’t magically make it untrue.
The truth seems to have a Hillary bias.. sucks, don’t it?
I read a press report that Axelrod said today that Obama’s strength was that he could put Colorado and Minnesota “in play”. Colorado, ok, I understand the belief that he might switch that out to blue, though I think that unlikely unless he picks Ken Salazar as a running mate (and not a bad idea at that).
But excuse me, Minnesota? You mean the state Kerry and Gore both won? He hopes to keep that “in play”?
If true, the report would seem to suggest that Obama’s not even sure he can hold Kerry’s map (which I happen to believe is true)even if he does become the nominee. So goodbye Pennsylvania, maybe Wisconsin and Florida? Fuhgeddaboutit! Hello, 1988!
And spare me the Purple State fantasies about states like Virgina, puh-lease! So tell me again—Obama wins, how?
Have proof? Would be nice to see.
Actually that handle was supposed to be ‘Continuum’. I got it wrong because I’m a bit stupid. Which is why I don’t like you folks here. Over at DailyShit they never get on my case because I’m stupid. They’re stupid too!
Is this really news? It doesn’t tell us anything we don’t already know and posting this article here is a lot like preaching to the choir.
The choir as you call us needs encouragement from time to time so I agree with the choir preaching entirely.
I applaud your fortitude.
I would have thought losing new superdelegate endorsements 18 to 2 since Hillary’s very important win in West Virginia left you in need of constant encouragement.
But I guess that’s what Larry’s “whitey tape” fantasy is for.
It helped a lot, actually.
It’s all preaching to the choir but there are people who are not singing who poke their heads in from time to time. People as in ‘influential people’. Journalists and stuff - the modern kind who don’t like to do their own research. This gives them a head start.
Rove is being generous on some states for obama, like Colorado, GOP will run the plant closing there while Michelle (opps off limits) is taking money from Treehouse for one! Plus Obama ad on the Joyce Foundations against guns will wipe out most mid country states
Ohio, repeat Obama’s lies there!
Mass replay the Axelrod Astroturf Gov there over and over again!
New Mexico same ad as in Colorado!
Mich, Obama refusing to let votes count there!
McCain landslide!304 McCain- 234 Obama maximum!
Don’t worry Mel.
We will work hard to defeat Obama here in Ohio.
Two Democrats have recently had to resign with sex scandels. Strickland — after supporting Hillary — will be very reluctant to foist Barry on an unwilling Ohio voting public. Maybe Dean and the elitists don’t care, but the state, county and local party organizations are going to have to work to get people to the polls to vote for a replacement for the AG who had to resign. Tying that to Barky won’t help. The Republicans would love to retake Ohio. We’ll give them McCain. The rest stay in Democratic hands.
There’s no guarantee Rove didn’t want this leaked. It’s in his interests to get Barry the nomination as then there are bombs he can drop. But even if this is close to his own estimate it doesn’t have to be the whole story.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=om9bGFHPpjg
ENJOY
IT WILL MAKE U HAPPY
Lovely!!
You fools don’t realize that Rev.Wright was right, he scared Sen.Byrd into an Obama endorsement, now he will get all the votes from the racists stopping him to become the next President for the “US of KKK!”
2004 Bush beat Kerry. 2000, Gore should have won FL, 1992 Bush senior won, but, 1996 Clinton impressed them and they re-elected him. FL voted Repug 1988, 1984, 1980. Voted for Carter the first time (but not the second). And voted for Johnson in 1964. Every other time they voted Red.
Older demographic, I’m sure they don’t like being ignored and especially don’t like being called yesterday’s, racist state voters. They will probably NOT go blue for BO.
I’m not an expert, just a junkie who keeps tabs.
Interesting and I agree. But does FL vote Hillary over McCain in your view? I think so (and I think it’s a powerful argument for her nomination among others), but I’d be interested in your read.
The polling data average at RCP gives Hillary an edge over McCain and McCain a large lead over Obama.
Clinton +1.7 over McCain
McCain +9.0 over Obama
And these numbers don’t really reflect Obama’s overall downward trend since the average includes older data between March and April. It is safe to assume he is actually doing worse against McCain in a GE match up and Hillary would do better than this old average in a GE match up with McCain.
Lots of Jewish ppl in FLA too. They’re not too happy with Barry I can tell you. To say they hate him might be going too far but then again I don’t think so.
I think hatred is too strong, but it’s fair to say he’s deeply mistrusted, despite the best tutoring efforts of the Pritzkers and the Crowns in Chicago. You just don’t get the sense of a gut commitment from him to the State of Israel that you do from other Democrats (especially Hillary!) and even from Evangelical Christians who are fierce defenders of Israel.
Rather, he exudes a sense that Israel is no more than an interesting theoretical variable in a difficult mideast situation and Jewish voters instantly pick up on that insincerity. Typical Hyde Park/University of Chicago intellectual remoteness from the core emotional issue of the importance of that country.
And that is hurting and will continue to hurt him big time in the Jewish community where the e-mails are flying around daily with some article or another about his relationships to some far out Palestinian, Arab or other real or imagined enemy of the Jews. And then there’s the plan for tea and cookies with Amadinejhad…oy. Not to mention Rev. Wright and his, uh, unconventional views. So try as he may, so far saying all the right things just ain’t doing the job.
Will he have continuing and likely fatal problems with Florida because the Jewish vote won’t materialize? Book it. And maybe even worse trouble though on a smaller scale in Wisconsin with it’s extremely conservative Jewish community (and keep in mind Kerry’s razor thin 11,000 vote win there), and maybe New Jersey.
All in all, then, not a very pretty prospect. But don’t tell his minions—they’ll never buy it because they know better than all of us.
add NY. to that line of thought.
While I enjoy Rove’s commentary I don’t trust anything he says. Also, electoral maps can change.
Hillary would simply be the better president and lots of Obama voters are waking up with buyer’s remorse.
The article points out that these are based on poll averages. Good for trending, I guess.
Pols live by polls. Hillary can use these to make a powerful argument along with all her other powerful arguments.
Those numerous powerful arguments that have earned her 2 whole superdelegate declarations since West Virginia - to Obama’s 18.
I want to apologize for trolling in here and being so abusive. I’d have my post deleted but I don’t know how.
I promise to grow up. Sorry.
Beats me why those 18 superdelegates chose the unqualified and unelectable Obama over Hillary. I guess it’s like the old saying goes — you can lead a horse’s ass to water, but you can’t make him drink.
Obama aka Barry Obama aka Barry Soetoro was raised Muslim
The man you know as Barack Obama used to be Barry Obama
http://www.xmlgrrl.com/blog/archives/200 7/01/16/barry-obama-and-the-gang/
by the way Choom in his year book comment means vagina
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.ph p?term=choom
Well Barry Obama used to be Barry Soetoro
Obama’s sister says he prayed as a muslim tries to downplay muslim influence of “agnostic” mother who married 2 muslim men.
[I put reporter’s comments in here they were bold in the story]
“[Your mom has been described as an atheist.] I wouldn’t have called her an atheist. She was an agnostic. She basically gave us all the good books — the Bible, the Hindu Upanishads and the Buddhist scripture, the Tao Te Ching — and wanted us to recognize that everyone has something beautiful to contribute.
[You didn’t mention the Koran in that list, although Indonesia is the most populous Muslim country in the world.] I should have mentioned the Koran. Mom didn’t really emphasize the Koran, but we read little parts of it. We did listen to morning prayers in Indonesia.
[Are you worried about mentioning Islam because it has already been evoked by negative campaigners trying to tarnish your brother?] I’m not worried. I don’t want to deny Islam. I think it’s obviously very important that we have an understanding of Islam, a better understanding. At the same time, it has been erroneously attached to my brother. The man has been a Christian for 20 years.”
.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/20/magazi ne/20wwln-Q4-t.html?_r=1&ex=13584852 00&en=63216b0a6fec4537&ei=5090&a mp;partner=rssuserland&emc=rss&p agewanted=all&oref=slogin
Obama is 48 he became a Christina 20 years ago? was he Muslim till he was 28?
“”My whole family was Muslim, and most of the people I knew were Muslim,” said Maya Soetoro-Ng, Mr. Obama’s younger half sister. But Mr. Obama attended a Catholic school and then a Muslim public school where the religious education was cursory. When he was 10, he returned to his birthplace of Hawaii to live with his grandparents and attended a preparatory school with a Christian affiliation but little religious instruction.”
SOURCE —–www.mydd.com/story/2008/2/9/14538/81744
And he choomed a lot of pakalolo! LOL
Rove does not mess around…and of course we know he has the tape of Michelle Obama’s hate filled rants against Caucasians as he also knows the whole scoop on Obama’s gay sex/drugs/murder scandal problems…This will be interesting…as Obama starts to lose his cool, and he will increasingly he gets tested from different angles. He will fight back and dirty just watch.
Of course the real battle is one of substance and issues. Former Obama supporters must confronted with the facts, that their hero is a puppet of those who control his campaign and that he is no champion of the people. As such we must continue in our support of Senator Clinton to emphasize that we champion her for the stances she has taken that speak to the needs of the poor and working poor (who were the middle class) to confront the roots of this economic crisis with a revival of the true heritage of the Democratic
Party of FDR. When people realize that this is the battle, and they are with their votes, then the pressure from us comes upon the super delegates to do the right thing.
At this point in time it looks like dumping the whole Dean, Brazile, Kerry, Kennedy, Edwards, Pelosi, Soros Move On, and ‘Gore the whore’ crowd from the Democratic Party as the failed leadership that they are.
I don’t think Obama would carry Mass. They recognize him as a recycled miserable failure known as Deval Patrick. That’s why Fat Teddy and Kerry’s endorsement didn’t even come close to working.
Precisely. Those people are pissed!
yup….and the last head-to-head with McCain poll supported that.
BTW, latest susa poll is Obama by 9 in Oregon.
“Fat Teddy”–you mean “Prince Tedmor, the Sub-Mariner”?
Why would Nebraska be a toss-up state?
Odd.
Hello all!!!
I am new here and I am instantly in love with this site!
Karl Rove might be an evil person, but he is a genius and if I were one of the superdelegates, I would take those maps very very seriously.
Hi. Welcome. And you’re right about Beyonce.
Why for that matter is North Dakota a tossup state??
Too kind of you Mr. Rove
Abramoff had inordinate influence in some of those states, interesting that they’ve gone dramitcally Obama’s way.
Hmmm.
Enjoyed the video so much. As for Senator Byrd, he is still trying to make up for his past sins. Kind of ironic the a former klan member would support Obama.
The map is interesting and certainly shows the weaknesses that Obama has. I really wonder what chance he might have in Michigan after the job his posse did on the voters there. He might win Detriot, but I think the rest of the state might be off limits.
In the end, if Hillary doesn’t carry the day, I can’t see any of the folks I know that used to be strong Democrats that always gave their vote to the party, doing it this time and for a long time.
This whole thing with Hillary and some of the old guard comes down to one thing, the vote on Iraq. What kind of person runs for cover after something like this, oh I know two, the last two guys the party thought couldn’t lose, Kerry and Edwards.
Rove is a smart guy but not infallible. I believe though he does have his finger on the pulse of America, wuold you turn your company over to a guy that had three years of experience, probably not.
For me its Hillary or the highway. She is the one with the spine, who doesn’t whine!
Yeah, remember how right Rove was in ‘06..
Remember a day or two before the election he talked bout ‘His numbers showing’…..
But by all means, please listen to what Rove has to say..
What’s bush’s approval rating been around for the past 3 years?
I guess I have to question why an evil socerer would help the lowly townspeople…
I am strong in my resolve to vote McCain if Obama is the nominee. If Kerry thought McCain was good enough to be VP in 2004, then McCain is good enough this time aroun.
I will not reward the DNC and the Obamanuts for their behavior. They have taken the candidate who would have been the champion of the poor and middle class and kicked her to the curb, in order to push the candidacy of a man who wants to privitize social security, and who voted yes for the Bush-Cheney energy bill. Obama has no experience and
has very poor judgement in regards to the connections he has made during his adult life, conections with communists, criminals, terrorists and racists.
If not Hillary in 2008; then McCain.
This would matter if the DNC along with corporate America and the party elite had not decided to hijack the party.
But it doesn’t. You folks don’t have a party that responds to the people anymore.
You don’t have a party period.
Warren Buffett just endorse Barky. Talk about establishment buy-in.
The fix is in ladies and gents. You folks are going to take Barky and support him if you want to remain DP members.
The sad thing is you folks need to realize the giant fuck-you the establishment just gave you people has been in the works since ‘06 when Reid and Pelosi sold their souls to K Street along with most of Congress. And told the base FU ‘we ain’t doing none of your business’.
And almost none of the base raised holy hell when the party whored itself out in ‘07 session and did jack shit. Demmies just sat back and took the shafting like a bunch of lemmings.
And you wonder why Brazile, Dean, Pelosi and Reid have such contempt for you people.
I don’t wonder about the source of their contempt. It’s been quite obvious for months. Hillary was always the true populist candidate. Not Edwards. Not Obama.
Annie Oakley….which is also why there’s a mass uprising right now against the establishment.
And by the older and more moderate folks, too. Imagine that.
Making it all the more ironic that she lost the popular vote - along with the pledged delegates, superdelegates, states won, etc.
Don’t you think?
I like how someone put it. It’s no longer about the math, but the map.
By the time Puerto Rico rolls around, she’ll probably have the popular vote without FL and MI.
I can just picture her on January 20, throwing back shots of Crown Royal as she watches Obama’s inauguration on CNN, kicking Socks Clinton away from her and muttering “I won the popular vote, goddammit. They’ll never take that away from me.”
Are you 14?
Socks is long gone.
Obama will NEVER be President.
She’ll be the one with her hand on the Bible. (the Bible would burst into flames with his palm on it imho)
Cause Jesus hates Muslims, right?
I could swear I read something the other day that Socks was still alive. And I thought, “You’re kidding.”
If you’re sure he’s in kitty heaven, I’ll take your word for it.
“In mid-2006 Socks was in good health”
http://www.purr-n-fur.org.uk/famous/socks.html
Good, we have Rove on board. Good (and brilliant) people like Anglachel and others have been talking about electoral college for quite sometime now and it is not hard to see that Clinton prevails in such a matchup over McCain and Obama, not so much.
WHEW! First Fox news is now the ‘fairest’ coverage out there (heaven help the 4000+ beloved fallen who could have used a FAIR an HONEST assessment of the Bush-Cheney immoral war). Now Karl Rove is an honest broker of political thought. I’ve read unbiases assessments of the Nov. election, and somehow neither Rove, nor HIS map, came up.
No one here said it, you did.
Careful now.
Jack Cafferty — one of those on his knees with his mouth hanging open to Barry — also sold the Iraq war so you don’t know your ass from your elbow. Just go and look at the people giving it up for Oboy and what they were selling prior to the invasion. You guys are classic examples of not letting facts get in the way of dogma. But, hey, we’re not the ones promoting the “Sell America First” candidate … they guy who voted for the Bush/Cheney energy plan that GUARANTEES oil dependence and so, not just THIS war, but each an every war in the Middle East … so do your Barry circle jerk all you like. Don’t come here with your superiority. We’re all walking around — or over you.
What fact’s?
Like the earmark that supposedly got Mrs. Obama a raise, an earmark that never went through?
So why did they give her the raise again?
Or a poll that shows Hillary came from ‘behind’ in Indiana.
Which I’ve asked for from ya’ll many times, but it seems no one here is able to produce said poll.
Thats just two facts that have been pushed that simply aren’t true.
From an MSNBC article when they used to report versus try to sway opinion:
But even though Obama takes broad swipes at Washington with a special-interest tar brush, even he gets somewhat spattered when it comes to the energy industry. Obama is a strong supporter of the Illinois coal industry, and has received thousands of dollars from lobbyists for the energy industry and employees of energy companies, according to the FEC.
In 2005, he voted for the Bush energy bill, which he vigorously criticizes on the stump, accusing the administration of meeting with conservation and environmental groups only once but meeting with the oil industry 40 times.
Obama’s support for the Bush energy bill brought $40 million to Illinois to help its burgeoning ethanol industry, $1 billion to allow diesel engines to be retrofitted to reduce air pollution and another $85 million for Illinois universities to research how to turn Illinois basin coal into transportation fuels, according to an article in the Peoria Star Journal at the time.
He is new to Washington, but he certainly has QUID PRO QUO down pat, no?
Of course, roll out something besides the two questions I asked about…
And you may find yourself living in a shotgun shack
And you may find yourself in another part of the world
And you may find yourself behind the wheel of a large automobile
And you may find yourself in a beautiful house, with a beautiful
Wife
And you may ask yourself-well…how did I get here?
Hey … you don’t respond to what I asked, I am trying to educate you. You’re here on an HRC blog. I am not obligated to listen to your disinformation. In the very least, I can show you that you are wrong. It’s the least I can do.
Beebop, same as it ever was…try to build up kool-aid immunity with facts and a troll gets all intraspective on ya.
But you didn’t show me I was wrong.
You came at me with ‘other’ earmarks he’s asked for.
Which ALL senators do.
So what about Indiana?
Was she ever behind?
Oh yeah….16 points up until 2 weeks prior.
What happened is that expectations got bumped too high. She was polling by some as much as 8 points ahead, so the squeaker killed her “win” appearance.
But that, to me, has been part of the obvious bias. That’s ridiculous. I can see them saying, “Wow….she pulled off an upset, which Obama said was a tie-breaker, but it still may not be enough.”
That would not make me happy, but I could see reporting it that way.
Instead….well, we all saw the way it was handled.
It’s just been too obvious for words this year.
Sorry Ann.
She was NEVER behind in Indiana.
Nope, no poll exists that shows what you’ve posted above.
If there’s a poll out there that say’s she was behind, I’d love to see it.
I’ve looked, I can’t find it.
My grandfather lives in Indiana and said when he heard her say that night in her victory speech that she came from behind he said to me the next day, ‘that was a bold face lie by Senator Clinton, she was never behind in this state’.
Which led me to look and see if I could find a poll that said she was behind.
Guess what, I’m still looking.
From Real Clear Politics, Obama had pulled ahead in late April, then he crashed and burned.
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2008/president/in/indiana_democratic_primary-639.html
And, I believe, her raise came right after he was elected and before the earmark.
Oh I see he was once ahead by 2% according to Zogby?
And Zogby’s been so reliable with his polling this cycle…