NYT & WaPo Mis-Report on Florida & Michigan, Ignore DNC’s Errors & Hypocrisy
By Deb Cupples on May 29, 2008 at 8:03 PM in Current Affairs
This Saturday, the DNC’s Rules and Bylaws Committee (Rules Committee) will decide whether to count Florida’s and Michigan’s primary votes. That committee stripped 100% of those states’ delegates, because their legislatures had moved their presidential primary elections to dates earlier than the DNC’s rules allowed.
Given what happened to American media’s credibility after journalists enabled the Bush Administration to sell the Iraq war to us taxpayers five years ago, one would expect America’s journalists to think twice before unquestioningly transcribing anyone’s talking points.
Perhaps that’s just too much to expect. Parts of a factually flawed article from today’s New York Times follow:
" But the legal analysis, based on party rules and contained in a 38-page memo to the committee, says the committee can either seat only 50 percent of the delegates or seat them all but give them only half a vote, which amounts to the same thing….
"So the committee is in a box in trying to figure out how to respect the voters in Florida and Michigan, who were not responsible for this potential disenfranchisement, while still honoring voters in 48 other states where officials followed the rules."
First, Florida Democrats were not responsible for moving the primary date: Florida’s Republican-dominated legislature did that (as explained here and here). Thus, Florida Dems are not responsible for rules violations and should not have been punished. Period.
Second, three other states blatantly violated the rules (Iowa, New Hampshire, and South Carolina) — yet they didn’t get punished at all. Thus, the New York Times was incorrect in implying that 48 states had followed the rules (50 states minus Michigan and Florida).
Rule 11(a) of DNC’s delegate-selection rules provides that Iowa could not hold its caucus before January 14, New Hampshire could not hold its primary before January 22, and South Carolina could not hold it’s primary before January 29.
As we know, Iowa’s caucus was on January 3 New Hampshire’s primary was on January 22, and South Carolina’s primary was on January 26.
In short, Iowa, New Hampshire and South Carolina violated Rule 11(a).
The automatic penalty for those states should have been a stripping of 50% of their delegates to the national convention [pursuant to Rule 20(c)(1)(a)].
So, why didn’t Iowa, New Hampshire, or South Carolina lose at least 50% of their delegates?
Because the DNC’s Rules Committee gave those states a waiver after the violations occurred. TalkLeft explains why those retroactive waivers likely violated the DNC’s own rules.
The upshot: Florida’s and Michigan’s primary votes wouldn’t count, while naughty New Hampshire, Iowa, and South Carolina got free passes.
Let’s revisit Florida, which held its primary on January 29, though Rule 11(a) prohibited Florida from holding it before February 5.
Rule 21(c)(7) provides that if a state violates the primary-timing rule, the DNC’s Rules and Bylaws Committee could choose to not strip any delegates if the Committee found that the state’s Democratic leaders had taken good-faith steps to stop its legislature from the moving of the primary to an un-allowed date.
As noted before, Florida’s Democratic legislators are severely outnumbered by Republicans and simply cannot block or pass any legislation. It’s been that way for years.
Florida’s Dem leaders did try to stop Republicans from moving the primary date — they just failed because of they were outnumbered. In April, TalkLeft explained what happened at the infamous hearing that resulted in the DNC’s stripping of all of Florida’s delegates:
"The DNC Staff did NOT recommend a punishment.
"Florida, through its Dem Party Chair Karen Thurman, then presented its case for why it was in compliance. . . .
"Thurman argued that the DNC Rule 20.c.7, 21.a and 21.b provided Florida Dems with a safe harbor for its plan. Thurman argued that success in reversing the GOP primary plan was not required by the rules. And indeed they do not.
"Thurman then recounted the story of the Florida primary legislation. Thurman presents a compelling case of the Florida Democratic Party’s efforts, including the introduction of amendments to the Republican legislation….
"Just with those facts, the 100% stripping of the Florida delegates was indefensible and frankly, obscene…. So how did it happen?
"Ralph Dawson moved for moving beyond the express punishment of 50% loss of delegates to a 100% stripping of delegates. The reasons for this proposal were unstated by Mr. Dawson. The next comment, from an unidentified DNC member was ridiculous and proof positive that this was a kangaroo court intent on stripping Florida of its delegates. The
comment called for proof that ALL Democratic elected officials in Florida had fought against the GOP legislation. Aussman pointed out that this apparatchik was simply wrong in what he said."
Looking beyond the DNC’s talking points (and the media’s poor coverage of this issue), it seems obvious that the DNC is dead set on not counting 100% of Florida’s votes — despite the following facts:
1) Florida’s Dem leaders couldn’t stop the moving of the primary date;
2) All of the presidential candidates’ names were on Florida’s ballot;
3) Florida had a record-high voter turnout for its primary, though we Floridians were told that the vote wouldn’t count;
4) None of the presidential candidates campaigned in Florida, so none have any greater advantage than any other candidate.
Let me back up. First, Obama did (accidentally) campaign in Florida, in that some of his cable TV ads had run in Florida before the primary. No other candidates’ ads did run.
Second, as Florida State Senator Peter Deutch pointed out in April, Sen. Obama doesn’t want to count all of Florida’s votes, because he thinks voter turnout would have been higher if voters hadn’t been told that the votes wouldn’t count.
Obama’s campaign even opposed re-votes in Michigan and Florida, which were possible a few months ago and which DNC rules allowed.
In terms of self-serving strategy, this makes sense because Hillary likely would have won a majority of Florida’s 211 delegates and possibly a majority of Michigan’s 157 delegates in a re-vote.
As you likely know, one reason that Obama isn’t keen on counting Michigan’s primary vote is that Obama chose to take his name off the ballot (DNC rules did not require this).
Reportedly, the DNC had asked the candidates to remove their names from Florida’s and Michigan’s ballots. Florida’s ballots were already printed, so all candidates’ names remained, but four (including Obama) removed their names from Michigan’s ballot.
If any candidate’s name wasn’t on the ballot, how could one fairly count that state’s votes? One couldn’t. It’s that simple.
The DNC knew this, yet asked candidates to remove their names from Florida’s and Michigan’s ballots.
This was a bizarre move, because the DNC’s own rules allow for an appeal of the Rules Committee’s delegate-stripping decision.
Because Obama removed his name from Michigan’s ballot, fully counting that state’s votes would be unfair — even if Michigan won an appeal. That was the obvious result from the outset.
In other words, the DNC knowingly attempted to undermine its own appeals process by persuading Obama (or any candidate) to remove his or her name from Michigan’s ballot.
The big question: what was happening behind the scenes that made any DNC "leaders" intentionally seek to disenfranchise two states?
Where are we now? In two days, the DNC’s Rules Committee will decide whether to
let some, all, or none of Florida’s and Michigan’s votes count.
This is icy-cold comfort, given how bizarrely the Rules Committee has executed the DNC’s rules thus far.
Make no mistake: the DNC still doesn’t want to fully count Florida’s and Michigan’s votes. That is evident in DNC’s hiring of lawyers to do a "legal analysis" that happens to conclude that no more than 50% of Florida’s and Michigan’s votes can be counted.
TalkLeft has a pdf of containing Florida’s and Michigan’s written appeals and the seemingly deficient "legal analysis."
Despite Obama’s publicly stated desire to not fully count Florida and Michigan, Obama’s campaign (and the DNC) want public relations points for attempting to re-enfranchising Florida and Michigan.
Sorry. You can’t have your cake and eat it too, and you can’t fool all the people all the time — unless most media outlets mis-report the facts.
Incidentally, the New York Times isn’t the only major paper that got it wrong. Today’s Washington Post states:
"Sen. Hillary Rodha Clinton’s prospects of persuading Democratic officials to override party rules and recognize all delegates selected in the Florida and Michigan primaries suffered a setback yesterday after lawyers for the party ruled that no more than half of those delegations could be legally
recognized."
To ordinary folks who rely on the Washington Post’s or New York Times’ account, it may seem that Hillary wants the DNC to "override" its rules.
To folks who’ve actually looked at the rules and researched what really happened in Florida, it’s obvious that the DNC would actually correct its past failure to follow its own rules by letting 100% of Florida’s votes count.
Furthermore, the only way for the DNC to truly be in sync with its own rules would be to strip Iowa, New Hampshire and South Carolina of 50% of their delegates.
I hope that media outlets who’ve gotten the story wrong so far will rectify that soon. If they don’t, then the DNC and Obama’s campaign likely will get away with fooling millions of people.
Memeorandum has commentary.
Daniel Schorr floated a similar “straight from Axelrod to you” piece on NPR this afternoon.
I’m not sure what you mean.
Thank You Deb for posting this ..and correctly!!
We obviously don’t have a media anylonger..and they sure as hell don’t know what their
responsibility is to the constitution is!
You would think the people on the dem side would be wondering who is behind Obama that the media is siding with him..like he is the messiah..
but we all learned some time ago..we are the media..and we must be vigilant!!
Thanks again Deb..from a Florida voter!!
fly
Thank you, fly!
Great post. No matter what Hillary should take this to the convention. This election has been tainted to say the least and fixed most likely.
Thanks. Yes, the election has been tainted.
Wrong. Wrong. Wrong.
Dan Gelber is/was the minority leader in the Florida House, Steve Geller is/was the Florida Senate minority leader. They were major players in moving up Florida’s primary because of their positions.
Here is video of Steve Geller introducing his amendment. It was all a big joke to him. It was an amendment made to make them look like they had shown “good faith” and made an effort. Doesn’t sound like they acted in “good faith” did they?
Here is the information the DNC had when it voted to sanction Florida:
Want to try again to argue that the Florida Dems were blameless? It’s an exercise in futility.
not the voters fault though
Gee, you conveniently forgot to mention the ballot paper-trail bill it was attached to. Oversight, I’m sure.
What your comments fail to include:
1. The legislation that provided for moving the primary up in time (which happened to be one of the REpublican priorities)also included one of the priority issues for the Democratic party in Florida to mandate a verifiable paper trail which Florida’s Republican Governor promised to veto if the primary issue was not included.
2. Senator Geller offered an amendment to the legisalation that would have moved the primary back into compliance with nearly Democratics voting for the amendment but the majority (Republican) voted down.
3. That Mr. Geller’s tone is irrelevant to the fact that he offered the amendment and that he and other Democratics voted to amend the legislation. (I don’t see why someone acknowledging the fruitlessness of this acttion in any way takes away from the fact that he acted.)
4. Rep. Gelber also offered an amendment to the the House bill to move the primary and was out voted.
5. The Florida Democraqtic legisature had the choice of violating one of its own Delegate Selection Rules or violating Rule 11.
6. That the DNC failed to follow its own rules by not making an investigation of the situation where a state law causes the State party to be sanctioned.
But I’m sure you knew that when you added your comments and chose not to offer the full story.
hey blue state girl, go back to your job with Obama.
oh, wait, this is your job with obama.
bLUE STATE GILR..YOU ARE JUST CONTINUING POSTING PROPAGANDA THAT HAS BEEN FLOATED BY dnc OPERATIVES FOR THE PAST YEAR.. i would bet you got that off DU..and it is crap..
the bill that was amended to change the primary date was a bill to Ban DRE voting machines from 15 counties in Fla that used them and to mandate voter verified paper ballots.
Was the primary date discussed by Dems in the legislature..yes ..until they knew what the sanctions would be.
But there was not a dem in the legislature that would have voted against that bill..you see we all knew that Sarasota..Kathrine Harri’s county had 18,000 votes dissapear in 2006..
if the DNC gave a rats ass about any of our votes..why did they in the past two years do nothing about the fucking voting machines in this nation??????????????????
how manyelections do we need stolen in Florida..and what the fuck did the DNC do to protect our votes? not a fucking thing!
so take your DNC talking points and stuff them..they are propaganda bullshit and i can just figure out who you got this bullshit from!
Fly ..a 2004 elected Delegate from the State of Florida.
oh and save your bullshot for some that don’t know the fucking truth..i had friends who worked on that bill and they just got the highest award from the FLA ACLU…so save your bullshit!
Blue State Gal,
The reason the Florida Dems “supported” moving the primary is because the Republicans (who hold the house by about 77 to 43 and the Senate by about 24 to 16) tacked that provision onto the same bill as the voting-machine paper trail requirements.
Fl Republicans had been blocking the requirement for a voting-machine paper trail in my state since 2002 — when paperless voting became an obvious problem.
The Republicans have such a big majority that they could have both blocked the paper trail legislation (again) AND moved the primary date — all with no help from the Dems.
In short, this was our only chance to get a paper trail in Florida — and God knows we need one.
still , how is this the voters fault,
it is not the public voters fault,
they should not be punished
That’s a good argument, too.
According to The Book of Revelations the antichrist will be a man, in his
40s, of MUSLIM descent, who will deceive the nations with persuasive
language, and have a MASSIVE Christlike appeal. The prophecy says that
people will flock to him and he will promise false hope and world peace,
and when he is in power, will destroy everything. Is it OBAMA??
His Zip Code in Chicago is 60606 by google earth.
The Beast comes from diffrent nationalties and come from the sea (Hawaii) I am REALLY, REALLY SCARED!! GOD HELPS ALL.
Kind of difficult for John the Revelator to have written about a religion that had 600 years to go before it arrived.
That is called prophesy
Not if the Book of the Revelation to John (because it wasn’t “John”’s revelation, but Christ’s as given to John) doesn’t mention it.
Out of the east, yes… Muslim, no.
Islam is a Christian/Jewish heresy (in my opinion) that dates from the 6th Century, much like Mormonism is a Christian heresy from the 19th Century.
Bottom line, the New Testament makes no mention of Islam and Muslims because they didn’t exist yet. One can “interpret”, but that’s a human projection in most cases.
Noooo chit! I had to check it myself.
60606 is Chicago! WILDLY FUNNY!! What r the odds?
whoa, freaky, really. i have thought of this, but then i thought maybe i was just being crazy, but your explanation makes it more plausible than how i was thinking of it. what caught my attention was the person would use words to start a following or something like that, and after thinking about that one thought, that’s when i thought, wow is it obama? of course when i was thinking of it it was 3 in the morning and the revelations piece is in madonna’s remix of justify my love called the beast within mix… i heard that and i freaked out…
These are the same mental midgets who did not do their job vis-a-vis our invasion of Iraq.
There are now journalists left.
Our media is in crisis
Yes, our media is in crisis.
is the anitchrist supposed to be lefthanded too
Count me speechless …
(no pun intended on the “count me”)
WOW! Great Analysis.
WHy, thank you! TalkLeft has even more, but it’s spread across 4 or 5 posts.
Please come to DC on Saturday to rally.
I stil don’t understand why Iowa, New Hampshire & South Carolina got waivers for the same exact thing: moving up their primaries.
Were the waivers based on polls?
Susan,
The DNC simply decided to retroactively give waivers to Iowa, NH, and SC.
According to TalkLeft, (which has done great work on this issue), ONE reason proffered was that Republican provocation occurred (I think in SC).
In short, Republican provocation was an excuse for IA, NH and SC but not for Florida (despite REpublican control of FL’s govt).
It sounds like selective enforcement of rules, because it is.
I don’t know about polls, though. I do suspect that it would cause terrible problems for Dems in the fall if IA, NH and SC all had 50% of their delegates stripped.
I APOLOGIZE FOR THE CAPS, BUT THEY ARE NECESSARY TO GRAB YOUR ATTENTION.
FOLKS, PICK UP THE PHONE, AND CALL THE DNC AND TELL THEM POINT BLANK: IF YOU DO NOT SEAT THE FLORIDA DELEGATION AND DO NOT RESPECT THE RESULTS OF THE FLORIDA PRIMARY, YOU ARE LEAVING THE PARTY AND VOTING FOR THE REPUBLICANS ON NOVEMBER 4TH (FROM THE PRESIDENTIAL TO THE COUNTRY COMMISSIONER)
DON’T ARGUE WITH THEM, JUST TELL THEM THAT IN A CALM AND MEASURED VOICE. IF YOU DO NOT MAKE YOUR VOICE HEARD, YOU DO NOT EXISTED.
HERE IS THE ADDRESS AND THE PHONE NUMBER OF THE DNC:
Mailing Address:
Democratic National Committee
430 S. Capitol St. SE
Washington, DC 20003
Main Phone Number:
202-863-8000
LINK TO THE CONTACT PAGE OF THE DNC
http://www.democrats.org/contact.html
Thank you, Chris, for the information.
I sent my “walk a mile in my shoes” running shoes to the DNC. They’ll arrive there tomorrow. But I’ll call, as well.
Between my wife and I, we sent 12 pairs of shoes in 12 boxes and each box had a DNC membership card.
Remind them to keep their own words. Chairman Dean issued this statement in Dec-07
http://www.democrats.org/a/2007/12/americans_have.php
At this juncture, he is more like Chairman Mao, than Chairman Dean to me.
By his own words he is a traitor.
Chris,
Thanks for the info and suggestion.
Blue State, I’m going to have to go with Deb on this one. I have seen our little city planning commission forced to allow a developer to “break” some rules because others, in the past, were allowed a pass on those same rules. If this (the DNC decision to punnish FL and MI, not the others) were a matter that could be brought before a court of law, FL and MI would win.
However, this is not a legal issue. It is just the future of our country.
and agust304..this is setting a precedence of disenfranchising “we the people’s ” votes..based on what our state legislature does..and totally takes out of our hands our votes..all of our votes..for all of time..this is unacceptable..in every way..i could not control my states republican legislators..i had nothing to say about it..
and i did not vote 1/2 a vote..i voted an full vote..and i worked as a poll watcher for almost 15 hours that day..i didn’t say..of fuck it ..these people will only get 1/2 a vote..i was there to make fsure people’s full vote counted..and i did it for the dem party..so who the heck are they kidding..
just remember this folks..today it is my vote stolen by the dem party..tommorrow it will be your vote…and it will be some of you who lose your vote next because this is setting precendence.. but also understand this..you will feel like a person without a country when it happens to you..because that is how i have felt every time my vote has been stolen..and it has been stolen… by both parties now!
fly..who no longer lives in a democracy
The idea is to stall till Obama limps over to the ‘correct’ number. Then the rest of us are not supposed to notice. We have noticed and we vote.
Yeap; you got it Uppity !! Obama is scheduled (again) to claim he won the nomination on Tuesday. the only way for him to do this at this point is if the number is 2025 and a bunch of SD (that he might have stashed) come
out altogether then.
Ha! Ha! Ha! They got us confused with those drooling punks that are his supporters…
The Florida house approved violating the primary rules by a 118-0 vote. It was 37-2 in the senate.
If you live in Florida, your local Dem was complicit in the scofflawism.
They had little choice since it was tied to one of the Democrats priority issues of a verifiable paper trial - to avoid the 2000 fiasco.
Yes, you are absolutely correct — and Florida’s Republicans knew this.
The Rs have such a heavy majority in both houses that they NEVER had to pass a paper trail and could have moved the primary date unilaterally.
I suspect that Florida’s Rs did this simply to cause trouble between FL Dems and the DNC — which was a good strategy for making Florida’s Dem voters angry at their own party, which would increase the chances that FL goes red in November.
Our state Rs are nothing if not good at strategy.
Hey Commander Guy..we dems in fla didn’t like losing a congressional seat in 2006..especially Kathrine Harris’s seat because 18,000 votes dissapeared in 2006..so see..”WE THE PEOPLE” put up a bill to ban the DRE voting machines and mandate VOTER VERIFIED PAPER BALLOTS..NOT FOR 2012 LIKE MOST STATES DID BUT FOR 2008..now if any dem had not signed that fucking bill they would be out of a fucking job,by all the dems in the state..ANY PART of that don’t you get yet??????????????
And do tell us what the DNC or any dem in Washington did about 18,000 votes that dissapeared in our state in 2006??????? oh your answer would have to be a BIG fucking ..0…
So we the people did something about it ..and ya know how we were paid back for that bill by Dean and Brazile and OBama and Pelosi???????..they FUCKING STOLE OUR VOTE!
all because the republican congress amended that bill and added onto it the date change of the primary..
so go ahead and keep posting the bullshit DNC/Obama talking points..but most of us here know the damn truth..and you are a liar!
fly..a 2004 Elected Dem Delegate from the State of Florida.
Oh and save your bullshit for other web sites where you drooling obamabrats hang..because i know a couple of the people who worked on the bill to get it to the floor of the legislature in Fla..and one of the people called me several times the day the bill was brought up on the floor to let me know what was going on..
oh and those people who helped write the bill to Ban the DRE voting machines and Mandate VVPB..didn’t even get a fucking thank you from the DNC or the dem party..but they did just recieve the higest award given out by the Florida ACLU!
commander Guy,
Perhaps you weren’t aware of the paper-trail provision, which the Republicans purposely attached to the primary date provision in the same bill.
We in Fl have been wanting the law to require a paper trail for voting machines since the repeated machine malfunctions happened during our 2002 elections (and ever since).
Republican legislators refused to let us have the paper trails.
And they could have kept refusing, because they have a huge majority in our lege (about 77 to 43 in the House and 24 to 16 in the Senate).
Given the numbers, the Rs could have both blocked a paper trail AND moved the primary deadline.
Why do you suppose they chose to tie the two provisions together in the same bill and force the Dems to support the bill by telling them that it was the only way we’d get paper trails?
I just heard DAN report that the rules committe is made up of
13 supers for Hillary
7 supers for BO
9 uncommitted
and then he said
“and this is LEGAL” (sarcastically)
I wonder? Might this end up going well for Our GAL??? (fingers crossed)
that’s not correct. You have people like Donna Brazile in the uncommitted and you get the picture. We don’t know how many uncommitted are already in BO’s tank.
donna brazile is one of the so called uncommitted..another is Alice Germond who is the secretary of the DNC and good friend of H.Dean..and there is another guy who is up Obama’s ass..that is 3 of the so called uncommitted…all for Obama..don’t you believe that the uncommitted are really uncommitted.
this is a fix and the fix has been in since the get go..the DNC leaders knew Obamam would never ever ever win Fla ..so the fix was in since last year..
may of us tried to get the info out ..but no one was really paying attention..but there have been what many of us now know..propagandists posting on many liberal blogs to bullshit and only tell 1/2 of the story..only fitting i guess since they only want to count our votes as 1/2..don’t you think???
fly ..who has had her democracy robbed by the repigs and now the democratic party, Howard Dean and Donna Brazile and Obama..who had to steal this election to win!
Of the “uncommitted” several are actually Obama backers, like Donna Brazile.
I supposed it depends on how one defines “uncommitted.”
Donna Brazile has spent the last 6 months telling everyone in TV land that she’s “uncommitted,” though she certainly has taken many opportunities to either promote or defend Barack Obama.
A bit off-topic, but I just saw on Taylor Marsh that Credentialed Democratic Convention blogs have been announced. Didn’t see No Quarter or any other blog strongly supporting Hillary. What gives?
TalkLeft is there but they are all for unity so…
Besides if Bambi steals it who wants to be part of that fraudulent show?
Unless of course HRC takes the fight to Denver. Then we should figure out how to get in there …
Two things:
State Legislatures fucked the system, thus Dean didn’t do a job before the elections started to resolve it and keep voters happy, now Mich and Fla voters are pissed if not given full rights!
Obama cheated twice in Florida and in Michigan by campaigning, entitlement lost to him!
Deans hopes for a finish before Feb 5th failed and now the mess which voters are not responsible for, the DCP is, fairness is Fla and Mich seated and counted fully and Obama not included in delegates for rules pledge to do ignored! If 50% rules is enforced, then Iowa, BH and SC must be fealt the same way!
Rules are rules! And NO rule says to cut out ALL delegates and votes! Sorry Dean anything less is mucking the rules and thus your chosen candidate is a false one!
Obama, Odinga both want 50/50
http://tinyurl.com/4wcnuv
Deb Cupples; terrific piece. Your points are spot on.
The NYT and the WAsPo have lost all integrity. They are running a scam and
I am glad you call them on it so sharply.
Thank you.
Thanks!
Ewwwwwwwww Greta has Lynne Sweet on telling some TRUES about BO knowing Phleger for YEARSSSSSSSSSSSSss!
hahahahahhaah!
Go to http://www.gretawire.com NOW to vote on whether Pfleger is a liability for Obama…
Ok the fix is in. Today Pelosi and Reid have joined Dean in insisting that Super Delegate anounce their intentions in the week following June 3rd.
My question is just because Obama may get the super delegates to pledge for him, is it not true that nothing is entirely official until the final vote at the convention???
What would be the problem if Hillary simply sits tight until the convention?? What the hell does she have to loose?? So what if the Obamabots crap their pants for 2 months??
In the meantime is it not highly likely that the Republicans will break discipline and reveal some of the fatal dirt they have on Obama. Wouldn’t the Republican congressional candidates and 527s still be tempted to start running attacks ads against Obama even if he has not OFFICIAL locked up the nomination??
My point is this Obama may wind up already being down 10-15 points to McCain prior to the August convention in Denver. Obama is highly unlikely to be able to stand the heat. Everyday will be another gaffe or embarrassing revelation. At some point what would stop the SDs from say hell no we are not going down to defeat with Obama. The official vote has not been made. They could aways back out.
Because lets face it the only real trump card Obama would have in this case is the threat of having his marxist/anarchist/MEChista goon squad riot in Denver. If that happens, I think he will have over played his hand.
To me the only way for Hillary to lose prior the convention is for her to drop out and formally endorse Obama. Do the Obamabots think that calling Hillary a B*tch, Slut, C*nt for the next 12 weeks is going to help their candidates case? Because Hillary’s staying in will only raise her esteem in the eyes of her supporters and the nation’s women. AAs will ultimately come around when they realize that Hillary stayed in because she was doing what she felt was best for her country knowing that Obama is a fatally flawed candidate.
To me it is as if Hillary has nothing to lose by hanging tough. Obama is going to prove to be a total disaster. Even if DNC and the party elitists still rig the nomination for Obama, Obama is certain to lose in a massive defeat. If I was Hillary I would settle for nothing less than Harry Reid’s job. I believe that the majority of Democratics at that point will insist that Pelosi, Reid and Dean abdicate any party leadership position as punishment for having backed Obama. Also it is still possible for the Democrats to pick up a number of Blue Dog Democratic house seats this fall. The Clintonistas and the Blue Dogs could force Pelosi to step down as speaker.
What do you all think??
That is true; but their idea is to put HRC in an untenable position …
So what Hillary simply hangs tough.
Let the Obamabots call Hillary a C*NT a thousand times a day everday. Hillary is not some thin skinned pillow biter pansy like Obama. I tell you in the end she will win over middle America’s undying respect. Let every crazed Obmazombie crawl out of the grave and come to life. Let Rev Wright, Moss, and the NOI go nuts.
The more they all do so the more Obama will be exposed as the Marxist/Leninist he really is. In the end the more he will be forced to distance himself from the very people he is beholden to.
By the Convention I still say Obama will be down 10-15 points to McCain while polls will be showing Hillary beating McCain by 5-10. Let the SDs stew on that. It is their F*cking job after all to man up and ensure the party picks a winner.
i believe i read on the campaign trail today that obama took another day off today… what a slacker. he can’t stand the heat and needs to get out of the kitchen…
Like I have been telling you. Obama is a combination of Merkin Muffley and Urkel. He can not take the heat. He is a precious little pillow biter.
Lou Dobbs offically hates his guts now too.
Thank you once again for rendering what is complicated accessible to readers of No Quarter, D Cupples. I too am convinced that certain members were bent on disenfranchising these states in order to facilitate the production of a false momentum for Obama.
The voters of MI and FL must be exasperated.
to truthteller..
yes we are!!..and i appologize for cussing in other posts….but i am beyond mad..i am so frustrated by 1. the DNC stealing my vote and 2. by the lies and propaganda talking points, which by the way were started on many liberal blogs and message boards by propagandists ..last year!!
3. i am so tired of correcting the damn lies!
I have been a poll watcher for the dem party since 2004..and i did it to protect people having the right to vote and having their vote counted..this just flies in the face of it all..i will never do it again..i have spent endless hours taking a class to be a poll watcher..( i am one of only 2 poll watchers at large in my large county)..and have put up with Bubba the SOE assistant staring me down for 15 hours.. when they break the rules ( yes they are all repubs)
i have been insulted by the repubs..i have had repub attorney’s sit and challange dem voters and try to intimidate me for hours on end..just to see that people who came to vote, got to vote.. and have their votes counted.
Never again..i will never do it again..not for another dem candidate and never for the dem party for the GE and early vote for the GE..
they can go screw themselves..
let them count on 96 year old ladies who work for the repub party and poll workers who can’t even sit up straight without falling over …tell the dem voters they are not in the books..or little old ladies who are poll workers who don’t even know what or how provisional ballots are to be done..
I am done with the dem party, for good, if my vote is not counted and counted in full 100%..
I will vote for McCain ..because i will never vote for the cheater Obama..not now ..not ever!
fly
Thank you for all you do - Fly - you are the heart and soul of this country. I am sorry the Party deserted you and treated you and others in MI and FL like crap - they are doing the same to all of us too. I hope if Hillary is the nominee you will consider helping to save the country again by continuing to be a poll watcher. We need true Americans to ensure the elections process is not rigged. If it’s Obama - it won’t matter, Repubs will win by a landslide, might as well just stay home and enjoy your evening instead of dealing with such cheaters! THANK YOU!
And thank you, Truthteller!
Why don’t we all send a message tomorrow to Dean, Pelosi and Reid to STFU!!!!! We need to take back our party.
Great post Deb; glad you wrote about all this.
I used to read the NYT regularly but quit 6 months ago when they
unleashed all their vitriol and misogyny (eg. Rich). They are really cynical and
intellectually very dishonest.
Saturday will be a charade I am afraid…
Thanks, Andy.
I think you’re right: Saturday has already been decided. I suspect that’s why the DNC lawyers released their memo — to get the public accustomed to the idea that FL and MI won’t 100% count.
That’s one way to take wind out of sails.
Agree !! But they are underestimating the anger (imho) ….
Yes, they certainly are underestimating — as is Obama’s campaign and many of his supporters.
In more simplistic terms the whole situation reads like this to me:
1. Republican congress in Florida decided to move their PRIMARY date up to be more relevant in the nominating process but just by a few days. This measure passed both houses and then was signed into Florida law by the Governor.
2. This is where the fun begins. In a move of extreme arrogance or extreme election rigging the DNC decided to strip the delegates from Fla despite the primary being paid for completely by the state of Fla and being completely legal. DNC must think they have more power and authority than the state of Fla’s elected officials.
3. Result of stripping delegates tainted all primaries and caucuses to follow and in a Republicans wet dreams the best and most electable dem candidate loses nomination.
4. DNC continues on path of implosion and unfettered hubris and diligently works to prevent Fla delegates (an absolute must win state) from being seated so that they can nominate Obama.
5. DNC is teetering on the edge of being financially bankrupt.
6. Centrist dems are fleeing party in record numbers and plan to vote for McCain. Some are even openly advocating starting a new party.
So the crux is. Republicans sort of screw dems. Dems overreact. Dems rig election. Dems implode. Dems lose big. Dems never recover and party collapses into oblivion.
to Gregoryp..yep!..you got it right..and for over a year now ..i have thought that the dems deliberately want to lose the GE..understand this it is almost impossible for a repub to win the White House without Florida..so the repubs know exactly what buttons to push to win Fla..that is why we dems are so under represented in our state, and yet we continue to register dems at a higher number than repubs..but then we lose them to indy because the dems get so damn frustrated..in fact it is hard to even get Unions to join anything dem in Fla..they only come out during GE campaigns..
everytime we look like we could win and win big in Fla..the dem party fucks us!
big time!
fly
but the good thing is that people saw the dem party for who they really were and now are no longer going to be straight party voters ever again, now they will actually feel the need to do research on the candidates and never fall for what the media tells them or fall for the way the party is pushing a specific candidate. and lastly that a new party will arise that takes in all those who were thrown under the bus, a legitimate 3rd party finally, or at least there will be more independents than dems or repubs, so that the dems and repubs can never agains count on their stalward supporters for money, because these voters will put their money in whichever candidate they want to vote for and not blindly to a party ever again to go for candidates that just don’t cut it…