THREAD #3 / Live Blogging Committee Hearing [Update with notes of Truthteller; Update with Protest Video] »
By Truthteller on May 31, 2008 at 3:06 PM in Barack Obama, DNC, Delegates, Democracy, Democratic National Convention, Democrats, Disenfranchisement, Florida, Harold Ickes, Hillary Clinton, Michigan, Voter Enfranchisement
Let us summarize Obama’s position: we must respect imaginary voters who would have or could have cast votes in Michigan and Florida, for if we do not respect these imaginary voters, we run the risk of disenfranchising voters who may or may not exist. It is a specious argument, especially as the Obama campaign’s victories were in caucus states. Is not his delegate count predicated on the systematic disenfranchisement of voters who would have participated but could not have participated in a caucus? What if those states held primaries? Should we, for example, reallocate the delegates in Nebraska and Washington state in order to reflect the outcomes of their respective primaries? After all, the delegate count as a result of their caucuses does not reflect the desires of the primary voters in those two states.
Obama’s argument hinges on a series of hypotheticals, none of which can be substantiated with incontrovertible evidence. So now we are in the territory of known knowns (votes actually cast), known unknowns (we know people did not cast votes, but we do not know how many there are or why they chose not to participate), unknown knowns (we know write-in ballots exist in Michigan, but we do not know the desires of those voters) and unknown unknowns (the number of people who do not vote for whatever reason in any election). If the Committee restricts itself to evidence that can be viewed and analyzed, they will side with the Clinton campaign. If the Committee chooses to dwell on hypotheticals and on imaginary scenarios, they will side with Obama. Either we uphold democracy, or we undermine it in the name of Obama’s political fantasies.
[UPDATE]: Video of protesters outside the meeting
This is the 3RD THREAD covering the committee hearing. The SECOND THREAD IS HERE, and the FIRST THREAD IS HERE. Comments in earlier threads are closed.
[Truthteller]
5:17 PM EST - Why are they over an hour late? Back room deals of career politicians?
6:04 PM EST - Members of the Rules & Bylaws Committee are slowly filing into the conference room.
6:10 PM EST - Alexis Herman is now present.
6:15 PM EST - The meeting has resumed.
6:17 PM EST - Discussion of FL first. Then a vote. Debate to be limited to 10 minutes per motion.
6:18 PM EST - First matter on FL is Ausman challenge. Alice Huffmann speaks. She asks for full seating of FL.
6:21 PM EST - She desires to uphold the principle of counting every vote. She emphasizes how this is a result of Republican mayhem. she also believes voters in FL were victims, as they are simply people who cast votes in good faith. She understands the rules, but she also understands the importance of Party unity and the importance of motivating Florida Democrats. She desires a full vote for FL without penalty, and she submits her motion.
6:25 PM EST - Uncommitted superdelegate David McDonald disagrees. He cannot claim that the case of good faith of Florida cannot be made to other states and to the DNC. But again, it is not Florida’s fault. His argument is somewhat contradictory. Expect a lot of sanctimony during this debate. He cares about FL, but he does not believe they deserve representation.
6:27 PM EST - Yvonne Gates, also uncommitted, will not support the Huffmann motion. But again, it is not the voters’ fault. Rules are rules, she says, and she invokes the trope of “chaos.”
6:29 PM EST - Flournoy notes that the Huffmann motion will not pass, as the DNC should be the Party of inclusion.
6:30 PM EST - Alice Germond discusses the rules, and she emphasizes their importance as a result of the time and effort invested in their drafting. She believes a 50% penalty is required. She does not support a 100% sanction. She refers to Florida as a “beauty contest.” And now she is attempting to inscribe herself in the Civil Rights tradition. She now claims all 50 states should be respected, including the 48 who adhered to the rules. She regrets that FL and MI cannot gain full representation, but she believes the rules define us as a Party.
6:34 PM EST - Mona Pasquil now speaks. She discusses how rules must be challenged in the name of the family. She fully supports Huffmann, as she desires to be responsible to the FL voters. Now the vote.
6:36 PM EST - Donna Brazile did not vote for it. 12 voted in support. 15 are opposed. Brazile was opposed. Hillary supporters promise to take it to Denver. Motion fails.
6:38 PM EST - Now a vote on the Ausman challenge. Ralph Dawson speaks on behalf of the Ausman challenge. And he cites the Obama campaign as justification of the Ausman challenge. Delegates entitled to cast 1/2 vote.
OBAMA SUPPORTERS APPLAUD DISENFRANCHISING FLORIDA VOTERS.
Clinton 52.5 delegate votes
Edwards 6.5 delegate votes
Obama 33.5 delegate votes
unpledged entitled to cast .5 vote at convention. Rules 5,6,7,12 must be followed.
6:41 PM EST - Huffmann supports the Ausman challenge. “The world is not perfect, but it is good.” And she invokes Party unity. I am not sure if this will unify the party. I am not excited. Someone screamed “you took away votes,” and she responds “we gave you some back.” This is a mess, and no, we will not be unified.
6:43 PM EST - Huffmann: “This is the next best thing to democracy.” That is telling. Welcome to Obamatopia.
6:45 PM EST - Vote on Ausman challenge: 27 votes in support. The vote is unanimous.
6:48 PM EST - To attribute half delegates to each candidate, with Obama receiving all uncommitted delegates. Fowler will support it. He thinks we should support this compromise resolution.
6:50 PM EST - Ickes is opposed. He believes the DNC is violating the rule of fair reflection, which to him is analogous to the First Amendment of the Constitution. It will remove four delegates won by Hillary Clinton, and it not reflect the votes of 600,000 Michigan voters. A body of 30 individuals will substitute their judgement for 600,000 voters. He does not think this is democracy. Ickes is stunned at the gall of the DNC to substitute its judgment for 600,000 voters. “You bet your ass the process was flawed.” All election in US are flawed. “You bet your ass a lot of people did not vote.” The US has one of the lowest participation rates. But this is not an excuse to overturn an election.
Fair reflection is in the Charter: we cannot hijack four delegates from Clinton, and we are converting recognized uncommitted delegates to Obama delegates. According to Ickes, this is a violation of the Constitution of the Party.
And then they invoke unity. Hijacking four delegates to him will not establish Party unity. AND HE IS RIGHT. And Clinton reserves the right to take this to the credentials committee.
6:56 PM EST - Obamabot Hynes gratuitously insults Ickes, and now he claims it is fair. He says it fairly reflects MI. And then Roosevelt claims supports dishonor “their candidate” when they interrupt. Thank you for telling us who “your candidate” is, Roosevelt. And then Hynes congratulates Obama for “making this happen.” WHAT A JOKE.
6:58 PM EST - Mr. Ward now speaks. He supports Obama. And now we move on to autobiography. And we move to 1964. Somehow disenfranchising Clinton voters and the state of Michigan is the latest instantiation of Civil Rights. He cites the rules. And now the rules are irrelevant, for he and others were “locked out of the process.” He now attacks Ickes. And he now claims this is an “opportunity” for Michigan. His logic is tortured, and I do not believe he should have dropped the race card. Someone needs to ask Ward to read the Charter. This man is ridiculous.
And he says Ickes is politically posturing. And what did he just do?
7:03 PM EST - Ms. Smith now speaks after BEGGING for time from Roosevelt, who obviously supports Obama. Machine politics in play. She cannot support the Brewer motion, as the allocation of delegates is flawed. She is a Democrat with a capital D and a small d. The voters rule, as they are the highest government. The compromise, according to her, ignores the will of the voters. This is not unity, she says. But we will be unified at some point. This compromise, for her, will not create unity. GOOD FOR HER.
7:07 PM EST - Now vote on the Brewer compromise. 19 votes in favor. 8 against. Brazile voted for disenfranchising Michigan and Clinton voters in Michigan.
Delegates 34.5 Clinton
29.5 Obama
7:09 PM EST - Obamabot Clark could not hear the vote. She is attempting to make the Clinton supporters in the audience appear unruly.
7:10 PM EST - Fowler thanks the committee for a “job well done.” And now Democrats are cheering for no real reason. They are celebrating disenfranchisement. They are celebrating the violation of democracy. He is not pleased, but he claims this is in the best interest of the Party. Whose Party?
7:12 PM EST - I prefer not to listen to Roosevelt. I guess a report will be issued to the Credentials Committee by 29 JUN.
MACHINE POLITICS WON TODAY. THIS IS THE OBAMABOT PARTY, NOT THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY.
7:14 PM EST - Herman offers platitudes of “common ground” and “unity.”
Now they are thanking each other for disenfranchising voters behind closed doors. Allow me to vomit.
FINI
I seriously hope someone on this panel says it is arrogant to speak for voters who have already spoke for themselves.
…. and to speak for “voters” who for one reason and another never BOTHERED to vote. There’s the real issue … You don’t vote. Great. That’s your choice. Don’t penalize the people who did and then REWARD the candidate who doesn’t get the vote out. That’s just plain NUTS … he took his name off the ballot in Michigan. He hoped to embarrass her. Not a good strategy. He lost. Game over.
This violates our charter, our Constitution, our purpose in being Democrats. Court precedent also
it all says the expressed willof the voter
it all listed uncommitted as a presedential preference in the frakin CHARTER
they CAN NOT GIVE him Uncommitted, unopened frakkin mail ins (that could be for frakkin LaRouche,r me, Snoopy, a cat) and then the ULTIMATE INSANITY, to EVEN FRAKIN SUGGEST GIVING
FRAKIN GIVING HILLARYS EARNED VOTES CAST FOR HILLARY, TO Obama who wasnts even on the ballot
IT IS INSANE
This is theft if they do this frakkin theft everyone knows it
HOW MANY TIMES WILL THEY LOWER, yeah meeechelle, LOWER THE FRAKKIN BAR to PUSH their frakkin candidate over the line
if he cant make it he aint tough enough to be our frakkin POTUS, period
Donna said her moma said it is chearing to change the ROOLZ
So HOW AN THEY VIOLATE 13A DN OUR FRAKKIN CHARTER
NO NO NO
TAKE IT TO THE FLOOR IF THEY DO THIS HILLARY
PLEASE STAY WITH US
TO DENVER AND THE WHITE HOUSE
This is UNDEMOCRATIC if they do this, totally totally, must be stopped
CANNOT LET IT HAPPEN or we are FINSIHED as a legitimate voter protection enfranchisement party FINSIHED and WORLDWIDE also FINISHED
Truthteller, you hit the nail on the head, but left out one major point which will come out in the coming days, Clinton has won every major needed state to win POTUS and her numbers remain high there, Obamas are faultering and Obama’s crappy suck up to Florida won’t change that outcome, because Fla isn’t stupid!
Michigan is harder, but in the end, Clinton has a far better case than Obama does to voters there!
Harold Ickes got in a good camera moment of “to take delegates that Clinton won, and give them to Obama” sets a bad precedent. “Why take just five delegates from Clinton and give them to Obama? Why not take ten, twenty delegates?”
The clip should get airtime in the highlights on the non-Obama networks, if any exist.
With regards to the comment about how candidates removed their names to “curry” favour with Iowans.
I think it’s about time states like Michigan and Florida put wee-little Iowa in its place. What has Iowa done? Saddled us with corn-based ethanol and gobs of farming subsidies.
I thik Michigan and Florida now have a green light from a lot of people now to bump ahead of Iowa as much as it wants.
Michigan and Florida Dems should simply say: “take it or leave it.” Don’t dance around the bush. Give them a firm ultimatum and I’m pretty sure they’d back down.
Totally right. All the stuff about “who’s going first” in the primaries is just the stupidest thing ever. I bet European countries and Canada are looking at us today and thinking, those crazy Americans just get crazier all the time. Who in their right mind would come up with a system where states have to “take turns” to have a primary and then if they aren’t “in turn” all the voters in that state are disenfranchised? Nuts, totally nuts.
Add to that Donna Brazile’s insane crap of giving AA precincts twice as many delegates because they’re “the most loyal Democrats” is actually unconstitutional, but the DNC went along with it. Well, if the DNC doesn’t think I’m a “most loyal” Democrat, I might just take my vote over to the other side.
Talk about Chicago-style politics. It appears they not only want dead people voting but ‘hypothetical’ voters. How can some one who quit the game, complain about the rules? Every one knows Richardson and Obama had a leaflet out to get folks to vote ‘uncommitted’. HIllary’s voters voted for Hillary. Her votes should stand and her percentages should stand.
Donna can talk about unity all she wants. I cannot, in good conscious, support Obama. His questionable associations, his continual display of lack of depth on issues, and his inability to display achievements shows his unreadiness for the presidency. Please superD’s! I don’t want to vote Republican! Wake up and smell the reality!
The only unity Donna Racebaitor Brazile knows is the unity between her thunderthighs in eliminating any potential gap.
Every time that ignorant cow opens her mouth all i hear is the sound of explosive diareah eminating.
Ever since she sent out that eamil telling voters to stay home, that the DNC doesn’t need them, ever since then, i just equate her to a walking talking life support system for racebaiting and verbal diareah.
Nothing she will ever say or do short of throwing herself under a double decker bus will ever garner even the slightest bit of interest in me ever again.
Its ignorant race baiters like her that helped to create the schizm the party is now facing.
Frankly i hope she chokes on her next ham sandwich.
With comments as classy as those, you elevate all of us HRC supporters to slightly above a snake in the grass. Most of us wish D.Brazille nothing more than that she wakes up and realizes she is wrong.
the only thing i wish for brazile is a one way ticket out of the democratic sphere. i wish her a sorry future with no more trips to televison. i don’t pray for her. i forget her and carry no feelings for her except an occasional feeling of scorn.
I agree. (Plus, as a full-figured woman, I’d not cast stones at my own reflection.)
I don’t understand Donna Brazile at all, and I just want her to wake up. What they’ve done here with the Michigan voters is not democracy. It is not going to promote unity, whatever the Hell that is anyway. It does nothing other than promote division — and that IL guy for Obama praising Obama’s leadership was just twisting the knife. Absolutely no need for that — leadership doesn’t need that sort of exaltation anyway.
I tend to think Alexis Herman would’ve voted against the resolution in Michigan. Roosevelt would’ve voted for it. So neither of them voting changed nothing; they would’ve offset.
At any rate, I am livid. I am disgusted. And I am frustrated.
What the Hell are we supposed to do now? What can we do to make them listen to us, to the will of the actual voters?
Note that if it were Obama in this position, I’d still support his position because counting all the votes is what democracy is all about.
Exactly!
Rummy himself would be proud!
Not a one of them is concerned with setting a dangerous precedent. They are making their own history and they simply don’t give a shit about the ramifications. God help us when next we have a razor-thin margin. The democratic Party will have no credibility whatsoever.
And what about me? I am an actual voter that did not get to go to the caucus because I am handicapped and the handicap parking was a block away. I am for Hillary, so I guess it worked out fine for bo.
You do know that Obama is a fan of Donald Rumsfeld? Yup! Loves him some Republican scum.
Donna the uncommitted who committed at the black caucus. I’m guessing she doesn’t know that was being filmed.
Donkey Barfzeal is more like it. She sure can bray like a jackass.
OMG…What is Dean’s malfunction?
He admitted he had a conniption fit because he didn’t get his way! “What do I owe the party!?”
Well, that explains everything, he feels the Clintons didn’t help him after his yelp, so he isn’t helping them.
And I love that comment….’Who would know it would come to this?’
Anyone paying attention….you twerp!
The big finish…’change’…’change’…’unity….unity’…
Wait what? He expected help after that yelp?
Is he insane?
Has he forgotten?
Let me refresh everyones memory.
Do not click this link unless you want to be disturbed.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nMyMTmcBB4M
I mean come the F on. That scream was a career killer.
Todays proceeding may well be meaningless for the simple reason is that we are likely to get the Chicago solution. Look not to the arguments but rather the make up of the voting committee. With what would at first appear to be a Clinton advantage, do not set your stall by this dominance. Obama is well used to rigging the votes and directing boards with hidden partizan participants. I would be amazed if the sactions were lifted totally.
I hope you are wrong. She has 13 supporters on the board, and he has 8. There are 9 uncommitted (but we all know where Brazille stands and where the lady with the reddish hair pulled back talking about the “voters who believed us and didn’t come out to vote”). He has to get 8 uncommitteds to vote his way in order to win. We’ll see what happens.
I am going to reiterate what others here have already voiced.
The Obama camp’s main argument is to take into account the voters who might have voted but did not and we are disenfranchising the imaginary folks. In general elections, there are plenty of voters who decide for one reason or other they don’t want to vote (e.g. if the choice is between Obama and McCain, many of us may consider sitting out the election). A very tricky argument.
Obama’s position is built on fantasy, not supported by reality. Waxler’s and Brazile’s performance scares the hell out of me. They are just what I think Obamaites are really like - incredibly biased and deluded. When Brazile starts to talk about cheating, I think there is no pretense any more that the Obamaites are threatening serious consequences of an unimaginable sort.
His whole path to victory is like that.
Playing the rule book, not playing by the rules.
He’s like a football team from a nerdy high school that only wins when they point out some obscure rule violation.
“The quarterback’s shoe’s untied! We win!”
As far as I can see, what you’re talking about is THE ONLY skill Barry got out of Harvard Law.
These are the same people who seized control of caucuses and made the results come out their way so why not this? Nothing surprises me about Barack Obama, particularly if it’s slimey.
lone star liberal | 2008-05-31 15:25:05,
We are very committed to uniting behind our candidate, Hillary Clinton, the only Democrat running with the experience, brains, strength and actually plans for this country.
The Obama campaign is attempting to blackmail people with talks of “unity” when what they really mean is “agree with us and there won’t be any problems.”
There is this assumption that “unity” can only be achieved by agreeing with Obama or accepting him as the nominee.
Well, the majority of voters are united behind Hillary Clinton. It’s called the popular vote people. I’m sure Gore remembers it well.
Whoa! That sounds a little too neocon for my tastes. And that is why I refuse to vote for Obama.
Let them try that in November when there are no caucuses, no people to threaten without getting arrested, and no superdelegates. just one person, one vote. See how well that works out for them. The General Election is not an Affirmative Action program like this DNC meeting is. Count the votes, winner takes all delegates, good bye Barack Obama. If the democrats had the balls to run primaries like republicans do, Barack Obama would have been shipped back to Illinois a month ago. So if we have to show him his own ass a few months from now instead, so be it.
Obama camp’s argument about imaginary voters who stayed home thinking their vote would not count in the non-binding primaries in FL and MI — well those voters could have been for Clinton as well as for Obama. In fact, probabilistically, I would think these voters would be split in the same proportion as the voters who went to the polls for either candidate. That argument is dead on arrival.
its the weakest argument in this entire mess. especially when voter turnout is hitting records. they know that. its weak.
Also, if they start talking about voters who would have, could have..let us talk about caucuses — his delegate lead would evaporate.
They had another argument they didnt bring up.
They left this one on the floor because They thought it might raise suspicions about the massive cemetary turnout in Crooks county and chicogo for Oblahblah.
Better safe than sorry.
I don’t want UNITY I want voter FAIRNESS. I am not a party follower, I am for the millions who voted. 1 man 1 vote
1 woman 1 vote too!
I love how Alexis is trying to act like she’s uncommitted.
The Rumsfeldian explanation is probably appropriate. Because the DNC under Dean is as bad as the Department of Defense was under Rumsfeld.
Truthteller, Spot on!!! Please call C-Span @ 202-585-3885 and tell them the same thing!!!
I find this all sort of insane. I understand that everyone has a right to vote for who they want but when you look at the big picture, it is very disturbing. This is bigger than MI & FL. There has been all sorts of complaints about the Obama camp effecting the votes, the media control, and the polls. Then you look at all the Rezco insinuations, religious involvement and Zbig and the likes backing him? Where is the American Ideal in this? It’s mad and very scary!
The American ideal is that you don’t run for president if you are a crook and you’re lying about it. We learned that one the hard way from Dubya. But maybe you think Obama’s past and his present connections should not be examined because it might put him in a bad light?
Look, this thing is rigged, the fix is in, etc.
The talking heads are all saying she’s not going to get what she wants and it wouldn’t matter if she did.
Nothing’s changed in that regard.
The stories on the ‘net all say her reaction to the decision is key.
In other words, he still wins, and if he loses it’s all her fault.
That’s okay. Obama and his media puppets will lose in the fall.
They’ll still blame HRC.
The fix has been in the can since 2006
When obama said in his memorial day speach that he saw dead poeople he forgot to mention many of them even voted for him.
Don’t listen to the MSM. Hillary is going to the convention. The only argument they have is the “imaginary voter” argument, and that’s not nearly enough!
God, don’t you wish you could make people like Donna, Michelle and Dean “imaginary?” Pelosi and Kerry and Kennedy as well ….
Thank you for the video of the protesters. They’re not showing much of this on television.
Great video Truthteller, more more more of them, only get CNN and they won’t show it, in keeping inline with patonizing Obama!
Love it - there’s a Republican on C-Span begging the Dems not to make her vote Republican again!
No matter how many time the unity message gets played, this party is completely broken. Not from the prolonged primary race, but from those in the party that think they need to make the decisions for us by patting our heads, telling us we’ll fall in line and crowning the most empty suit they could find. I don’t need Pelosi or Brazile to play mommy knows best. I sent in my request to disconnect myself from the Democrats today…and it feels pretty damn good.
There, there, dear.
Just take your meds and go lie down.
We’ll just have to leave things to the children, now.
They could have avoided this by holding revotes whether Barry wanted it or not. He has held this entire election at gun point. Today did not have to happen. They put him in the driver’s seat and ripped the brakes out. So much for a Democratic, “big tent” party.
Hi guys. Just got in. Did they decide whether to give Clinton Florida popular vote?
No they are worrying about all the people who didnt turn out to vote for obama because they though the primary didnt matter. They are trying to figure out how to give Barry 3 million more votes and 300 delegates.
They’re trying to get the committee to give BO the exit poll numbers in MI instead of the actual votes he got because the exit polls showed he did better than he actually did, so now they want the exit poll numbers to count instead. Can you believe that one?
forgot to add…that’s assuming BO got all the uncommitted votes in MI, which he did not, but that’s what they’re trying to do…..go by the exit polls instead.
That’s when I left. That’s absurd.
And thanks for the protest video. That Obama girl at the end is super ignorant. She made a fool of herself by not knowing the facts. I thought Obama supporters were the intelligent elites…too funny, if not too serious-
I still think that Dean, Brazile & Obama don’t believe that many of us simply will not vote for BO.
Donna Brazile showed us six sides of crazy today, and one of those sides looked like she knew she didn’t have the votes to deliver the committee decision to Obama. Had she felt secure, she wouldn’t have accused the Clinton campaign of cheating.
got to love the facke stare-down moment she threw in before accusing us of cheating….I almost jumped up and yelled “watchu talkin bout willis!”
One of the things that really gets me about this whole thing is that most of the committee members are attorneys. Yet they are presenting arguments that would never in a million years actually fly in court.
To me, there should be no real argument about how the votes are decided in Mich.
Ask yourself the same thing you would ask in a court of law. What can you *prove*? You can prove how many people voted for Clinton. But you can’t prove, no matter how many weird arguments that are made, how many of the undecided voters really wanted Obama, really wanted Edwards, really wanted one of the other candidates who removed their names…. or REALLY were uncommitted.
It isn’t out of the realm of possibility that many of them truly hadn’t decided yet… and weren’t in any hurry to decide… since there was going to be a lot more information to come as the other primaries progressed.
Spewing all this BS about how most or all of them were for Obama is just speculation, and doesn’t cut it in my book.
its not about whats right. its about how to recognize the vote in such a way to not totally disenfranchise the voters while structuring it in such a way to ensure there is no way to have it undermine Oblahblah’s legitamacy.
POroblem is he has no legitemacy.
Several RBC members mentioned no one could have forseen the circumstances that would have lead to todays meeting. Noone could have forseen the closeness of this race. With that in mind, these are “extraordinary” circumstances and waivers to both FL & MI should be granted and all delegates seated with 100% of the votes. the loss of voter participation with the candidates, and the loss of revenue from the campaigning should be enough punishment to FL & MI.
Further, I do not take pity on any person who has the right to vote and choses not to. If they had been blocked from casting their vote that would be one thing, but they decided to forgo their primary. I take my vote seriously and NO ONE can tell me it doesn’t count, because it counts to me, thats why I vote every election. They’re excuse is so lame it makes me sick.
Thats my 2 cents…thank you
ANYTIME they tell you to stay home and don’t bother voting, SOMETHING’S UP
ANYTIME they tell you after you’ve voted, it doesn’t count, SOMETHING’S UP
Oh yes, something is definitely afoot.
Something wicked this way comes…
and it’s not named Clinton!
C-Span is now showing the space shuttle launch. Is Barky onboard? Maybe he’s going for the Martian vote…
if brazille keeps saying the law is the law,
than:
DONT ‘CHEAT’ AND GIVE HILLARYS VOTES TO OBAMA !!!!!!!
its not cheating when they do it…its playing fair.
Its only cheating when clinton is involved.
Same bullshit different pasture.
Why are they taking so long for lunch? Could it be they are giving Donna Brazille an going over. SHe started with the cheating statement, now its out there and the republicans are watching Donna. I hope it worth it to you to lose the general election just to have your freaking rulz honored. Donna your candidate can’t win!!! Wake up, America wants Hillary, she has the experience, knowledge and the where with all to get the job done. I don’t see why Obama can’t be the VP.
Ok, it just took them less time to launch the shuttle than this committee took for lunch. Democracy in action>
I am sorry, but a bunch of people who attend the God Damn America Church in inner city Chicago should not be allowed to choose my President.
The caucus in Kansas also turned away voters.The building was full.
If the DNC illegally ‘nominates’ Obama, I am going to be one bitter white bitch.
I hate to break it to you, but there are black people here.
I am aware of that. I will not be silenced by false accusations of racism. It’s Obama who called white people bitter, and it’s his supporters who call white women bitches, and worse.
No offense intended, I just didn’t want anybody here to be like that in return.
Also don’t want anybody here to forget that this is not a black, thing or white thing.
Its a right and wrong thing.
Thank you josgirl,
AnyoneButObama…I know what you are saying but jos is correct.
Truthteller:
That is a priceless description of the Obama camp position. Spot on !!
Thank you so so much for the great reporting. I could not bring myself to listen online. Following your reporting kept my sanity despite my anger.
As already mentioned, C-Span has three lines to call in on. The most intelligent call thus far:-
Host: You are a Clinton supporter?
Caller: Eh, no.
Host: Then you support Obama?
Caller: Oh no!
Host: Republican?
Caller: I don’t think so.
Host: What would you like to share with
us today?
Caller: I’m calling to complain about
their lunch break. Other people
don’t have lunch breaks that long
that’s just not right.
Host Thank you for calling
Now that’s civil political discourse!
So no decision yet on Michigan. What I resent the most is obvious. He decided to take his name off. So be it. He loses the votes now. The same plan should go for MI and for FL. Seat the delegates. Let them all have 50% of a vote. He gets none.
He should “trust” that they will vote for him on 2nd round if he’s so sure they would have been his.
This seems very silly to fight about this when he’s planning a trip to Iraq.
I saw a post on one of the other threads about the DNC meeting privately now. Has anybody heard anything about that?
there’s a graphic on CNN saying “all 30 rules committee members and staff meeting behind closed doors”
(I was watching CSPAN and flipped over and saw this.)
Am I the only one who see a parallel to Bush v. Gore here? That the only way to ensure fairness to voters who might have experienced unfairness is to disenfranchise all of the voters?
Carolyn Kay
MakeThemAccountable.com
I agree with your observation!