Rebecca Traister’s Safe Expectations — No Deal
By Charles Lemos on June 24, 2008 at 8:30 AM in Barack Obama, Bill Clinton, Commander in Chief, DNC, Delegates, Florida, Foreign Policy, Hillary Clinton, Howard Dean, Israel, John McCain, Just Say No Deal, JustSayNoDeal.Com, Keith Olbermann, Michelle Obama, Michigan, Misogyny, Obamedia, PUMA, Qualifications, Sexism, counterterrorism
Rebecca Traister this week writing in Salon thinks she knows how 18 million people think:
The attack of the PUMAs, or a dozen reasons why Clinton voters are still too angry to come home.
If you’re a dedicated Democrat — or perhaps even one of those fed-up Republicans we’ve heard about — there’s a good chance you’re pretty stoked right about now. After a grueling but thrilling primary contest, we at last have decided on a history-making, barrier-breaking Democratic presidential candidate. You’re excited! You’re inspired! You’re ready to hit rural Ohio with enough campaign literature to choke a wavering independent!
But why do you keep hearing all these stories about grumpy old ladies still hung up on Hillary Clinton, the ones who’re threatening to make a scene at the Democratic convention in Denver, or vote for John McCain in November?
To be fair, it’s not just women. There are plenty of Clinton supporters of every demographic description who are still ticked. But yes, it’s true that the Clinton base skewed female, and that women over 30 are the most vocal of the malcontents. Some of them are calling themselves “PUMAs” (as in “Party Unity My Ass”), an acronym that makes them sound, appropriately enough, like cougars in a very bad mood. Who are these women, and why are they such buzzkills?
A buzzkill? A buzzkill would be a disasterous Presidency from a dangerously inexperienced 46-year-old Senator who misspeaks on issues ranging from the status of Jerusalem to meeting global dictators and sponsors of global terrorism without preconditions and has no core convictions and for whom everything is a matter of political expediency. That’s a buzzkill. And PUMA, at least for me, stands for People United Means Action.
Remember that classic of pop-psychological cheese, “Men Are From Mars, Women Are From Venus”? This offensive but rhetorically useful book (yes, I’m invoking it; address your letters of complaint to rtraister@salon.com) states that often, in conflict, women simply want to be heard. They want to air their grievances and let their opponents know where they’re coming from. Now the Democratic Party is moving forward, as it must, but it is doing so without giving the Clinton women a real hearing — without letting them vent their anger. It is the social equivalent of talking over them, waving off their complaints, assuming they’ll come around. This is a mistake. This is only making things worse (even if, as Walter Shapiro notes, history says they will come around, no matter how many PUMA T-shirts and Web sites like this one may be sprouting now).
In the spirit of this kind of communication and rapprochement, I figured it might be a valuable exercise to examine the different flavors of anger that your Clinton-supporting peers may be experiencing right now. Here are a dozen reasons why some Clinton supporters are mad and are not yet ready — even as their candidate joins him on the hustings — to put on Barack Obama buttons.
History says will we come around? Obama says we will come around. Howard Dean says we will come around. Claire McCaskill says we will come around. Donna Brazile says we will come around. And some of us keeping on telling you that we won’t so can please drop this. But obviously, she is not so it’s time for the media to tell me how I think or how I feel.
This list is not comprehensive. It is based on interviews with women at Clinton’s June 3 nonconcession speech and her June 7 concession speech, and on comments I heard from some attendees at an EMILY’s List conference a week after Clinton bowed out. It undoubtedly misrepresents the feelings of any number of Hillary heads. This is merely an attempt to give space to, describe and otherwise make a record of the grievances of a number of deeply committed political people who have just had their hearts broken. So without further ado: an incomplete taxonomy of post-primary rage.
1. They are angry because their candidate lost a close contest.
This is just simple human math, and it happens after every primary showdown. Remember that it took some Deaniacs months to come around to John Kerry in 2004. It’s just that most years, the contests haven’t also been identity-politics duels between two underrepresented social groups vying for a chance at a political position that has always been denied them.
Another difference is just how close and engrossing this race became. It’s hard to lose, especially when the finishes were often photo-worthy, when the possibility of upset lurked around every corner. And for those Obama supporters who say “Come on, it was over for months; it was an irresponsible fiction that Hillary ever had a chance,” it may be useful to imagine how it might have felt to have had the candidates’ situations fully reversed: Clinton winning more pledged delegates, many of them coming from caucus states and red states, Obama nipping at her heels in the popular vote and winning big states and purple states and two states whose votes weren’t fully counted, Florida and Michigan. Imagine how maddening it would be to believe your candidate was the better bet in the general election but was denied the nomination by quirks of the process. You’d be pissed, right? Furious! It would be 2000 and our flawed electoral system all over again. So that’s a start at imagining how an angry Clinton supporter feels — except that you probably never saw Clinton as the underdog, so there’s not the equivalent feeling of electric, explosive grass-roots momentum having been quashed. But remember that from her supporters’ perspective, she spent all of primary season post-Iowa as the underdog, so they probably feel a lot more like this than you can imagine.
Not in my case. Nothing to do with Hillary Clinton and everything to do with Barack Obama. I’ll take Joe Biden or John Edwards. I will never vote for Barack Obama. Repeat after me, everything to do with Barack Obama and who he is.
2. They are angry because their historic opportunity is over.
Getting excited about changing history felt awesome. I can’t emphasize it enough: This had never happened before. And it was fun. Exhilarating. Hopeful. Changing. All of that. When Michelle Obama guest-hosted “The View” last week, Whoopi Goldberg told her how wonderful it was to see her face on the news all the time, because we don’t often see black women like her portrayed in the media. But we had also never before seen pantsuits on the stump, had never seen a female candidate’s face behind a debate podium, had never heard a woman’s high-pitched forced laughter when she answered interview questions on TV. These were all novelties, and also how progress happens. Before our eyes. Now that part is over. And that makes people sad.
I know not a single Clinton supporter who is sad. Over what? Determined is more like it.
3. They are angry about rumors that Obama may choose a woman other than Hillary Clinton as his running mate.
This is a tricky one. Maybe some Clinton supporters remain so besotted by the idea of their woman as the history maker that they won’t be satisfied unless Clinton or someone from her direct bloodline is the first female to breach the executive branch of government.
In reality, however, it’s more that the other female politicians whose names are being bandied about (cough, Kathleen Sebelius, cough) seem like pallid substitutes, and the only reason Team Obama would even pick one is to placate stubborn Clinton supporters. It wouldn’t placate them.
But this is one of the facets of post-Clinton anger that puts Obama in a hell of a bind. Because the truth is that many of Clinton’s most devoted supporters overcame their own ambivalence about her because they believed it was so important to establish a precedent, to break the glass ceiling and put a woman in a job that has never been filled by a woman before. A female vice president, especially a Democratic one, is not nothing. And everyone who watched the glee with which Clinton’s failed bid was met should know that. But it’s true that if Obama goes with a woman, and decides (as seems certain) not to tap Clinton herself, he must pick someone who has something more going for her than a pair of mams. He needs someone who generates heat of her own, who can energize a crowd, who can do something for him besides providing him with a gender credential. Who is that?
It has NOTHING to do with Hillary Rodham Clinton. He can have her as his Vice Presidential nominee and I still won’t vote for him. I vote my values and I don’t share his values. And I don’t know anyone who is pushing Chelsea to run for President. Bloodlines? Are you serious?
4. They are angry that we started to talk about sexism only once Clinton stopped being a threat.
Yes, it’s great that we are finally having panels and conferences and news stories about the way in which Clinton’s candidacy was met with an enormous amount of gendered antipathy from the media. (And for any of you sitting at your computers yammering about how the coverage of Clinton had nothing to do with her sex, allow me to be frank: can it.) Those discussions shouldn’t stop. But it is painfully obvious that this was a conversation that could only be had once Clinton stopped threatening Obama’s prospects, or men generally. This is really depressing.
What’s depressing is that you get paid to write this.
5. They are angry at the media’s repeated denial of sexism, and they are angry at Keith Olbermann.
The first should be quite obvious. In a New York Times story last week, members of the media heartily denied that there was any sexism in the way that Clinton was discussed. This in the face of zillions of examples of gender-fueled language both explicit (comparisons of Clinton to a nagging spouse, to an ex-wife outside of probate court, to Lorena Bobbitt, to a sexless monster, to Glenn Close in “Fatal Attraction”) and only slightly more subtle (the unabashed determination on the part of print and broadcast media to put her campaign down as early as possible, and the hyperactive joy they betrayed whenever that wish appeared to be coming true). To deny that this happened is foolish, and it doesn’t make any of the eagle-eyed women who spotted Tucker Carlson crossing his legs in emasculated fear any less angry.
As for Olbermann, outrage at him has supplanted displeasure with Chris Matthews, perhaps because Matthews has been publicly excoriated for his bias, while Olbermann is still held up by many as a talking-head hero of the left. Of course, those surprised by Olbermann’s clear distaste for Hillary Clinton, or the venom he directed at that nutsy Katie Couric, who meekly ventured that maybe there had been some media sexism during the race, obviously missed the time he once wondered on air if anyone had ever ejaculated on Paris Hilton’s face. Olbermann’s simultaneous tenacity on the side of good, coupled with his utter disinterest in gender equity, makes him emblematic of the unpleasant position in which Hillary-supporting feminists find themselves — members of a progressive party that doesn’t seem particularly interested in their progress.
Now you’re on to something. After four strikes, you actually hit one.
6. They are mad at Howard Dean.
Not simply for allowing the massive befouling of the Democratic process that was Michigan and Florida but for addressing issues of sexism only once Clinton was out of the race. Seriously, the anger at Dean may be some of the most unexpected and intense. At the recent EMILY’s List conference, during a panel on gender and the election, Dean’s name was the only one that got booed.
Now you are on a roll. I know many who feel this way. I am more angry at the Democratic Party as a whole but Howard Dean makes a good proxy on this score.
7. They are mad at Barack Obama.
This is a tough one, because it’s vital to remember that many people who loved and supported Hillary Clinton for president also loved Barack Obama. They regretted having to choose between the two in the primaries and are now eagerly supporting Obama, even as they nurse their disappointment over Clinton’s loss. But for some, there is lingering sting — about the paucity of women in Obama’s top advisory team during the campaign, about the way they feel the Obama campaign stained Clinton’s supporters — and Clinton and her husband too — as racists, about the patronizing “You’re likable enough” comment during a January debate. Perhaps the worst slight, in their eyes, came after Obama had secured the nomination. When he should have been smoothing ruffled feathers, he instead decided to hire Patti Solis Doyle, longtime Hillaryland denizen from whom the senator is now reportedly estranged, as the chief of staff for the yet-unnamed vice-presidential candidate. The move was either monumentally clueless or a petty “fuck you,” not simply to Clinton herself but to the huge number of people still rooting for him to put Clinton on the ticket. (By the way, a personal note to these people: It’s not going to happen. We need to stop talking about it. Hoping for it is only going to leave you angrier in the end.)
I am not mad at Barack Obama. I wish him a long and healthy life out of politics. That many Democrats who voted for Hillary Clinton will vote for Senator Obama in the general election I do not doubt. But I think it fair to say that at least 25% won’t and that’s best case scenario. The worst case scenario is 40%. If he doesn’t win 85% of the Clinton base, he loses.
8. They are mad at Bill Clinton. Um, obviously.
This just boggles the mind. Why?
9. They are mad at Mark Penn.
And that’s for being a complete blockhead who mangled an epochal bid for the Oval Office. In a year in which it was obvious to anyone with eyes, ears or a nose that the country was dying for “change,” Penn made the keen decision to sell Clinton — a history-making candidate — as an establishment player. But the hard truth is that anyone who wouldn’t fire this guy the morning after Iowa probably didn’t deserve to win. Clinton didn’t boot him till April.
I personally don’t care for Mark Penn but I also don’t cry over spilled milk. What’s done is done. What matters is the country and preventing a disaster of untold proportions. I loved the Democratic Party, I love the United States more.
10. They are mad at Hillary Clinton for conceding and not taking their fight on to Denver.
No one I know is either mad or disappointed. We understand what happened. We know that she was giving her marching orders. No one I know blames her for conceding. She has conceded, we haven’t.
11. They are mad that everyone believes them to be old, white and racist. They are mad at the people they thought were supposed to be progressives for treating them badly.
They are mad at their party and its leaders because they feel this race has opened up a door, allowing people to rag on white women — as irrelevant and buffoonish, as ambitious and preening, as old school and boring and nagging and hectoring — in a way that demonstrates that women have a questionable place in liberalism and progressivism. Since when is the party supposedly interested in social justice not interested in the advancement of women to the highest office?
It was, in fact, remarkable, the success with which hoary stereotypes about second-wave feminism got so enthusiastically embraced 30 years past their sell-by date. Who knew how eager the American public — and more critically, the American left — was to wholeheartedly embrace the image of Hillary supporters as sexless, humorless, bitter, hysterical old crones. It was simply acceptable — in a way that was a brisk eye-opener for a lot of young women, even those who didn’t support Clinton — to talk derisively about Clinton and her supporters as whiny, cackling, emasculating witches.
Of course, the ease with which these kinds of stereotypes were bandied about suggests that it is women — about to take your jobs and your college acceptance letters and your seat in the Oval Office and probably your penis! — who are the most threatening to the established white male power structure. But it seems that that was rather cold comfort when Clinton women were being steadily assailed with images of themselves as unappealing, pruney old harpies who did all their political thinking with their ovaries.
I know as men as as I do women who feel like I do. This has nothing to do with gender or race and everything to do with the kind of person that Barack Obama is. He offends our values.
12. And finally, they are angry because they feel they are held hostage by the party by their reproductive organs.
As many people have already observed: What are they going to do, vote for John McCain? No. The truth is, they’re really not. Not if they care about their freedoms to control their own reproductive lives. And they are acutely aware that party leaders know this and that, thus, despite all this anger, Democratic women remain a sure thing.
In a recent New Yorker profile of Keith Olbermann, MSNBC chief Phil Griffin described how Clinton voters felt alienated from Olbermann’s anti-Clinton coverage: “He turned out to be a jerk and difficult and brutal. And that is how the Hillary viewers see him. It’s true. But I do think they’re going to come back. There’s nowhere else to go.”
Exactly. These angry people have nowhere else to go. So the safe expectation is that they will fall in line without much kicking and screaming. And that, ultimately, is why many of them are kicking and screaming. Yes, they’re going to vote for Obama. Of course they’ll vote for him. The truth is, they’ll probably love voting for him. But after what they feel has been done to them — the way in which they were written off, marginalized and resented, their hopes mocked and their history-making ambitions dismissed as retrograde identity politicking — damned if they’re going to be nice girls about it.
Trust me on this one, we have plenty of options. Some will vote for McCain, others will stay home, others will vote for a third party, others will write-in Hillary Clinton I will likely vote in blank. And I have to ask, did you actually interview you anyone for this story? It sure doesn’t sound like it.
From my blog, By The Fault.


most excellent post.
but now I AM mad-
at Rebecca Traister!!!
Thanks
Great post!
I love it that Rebekkka Traitor says “Buzzkill”–because it’s true.
The responsible grownup have noticed that the kids drank way too much kool aid and we’re hoping to bring them back to reality before it’s too late.
It’s also an admission that BO created a “movement”–that is, he’s revved up a bunch of stoners. They gave up plastering the buildings with their Andre the Giant images and are instead plastering them with Che for BO.
Where’s that fly swatter!
Buzzkill also means…we’re doing it!! We are being successful in all that we do.
Yea! I LOVE BEING BO AND FRIENDS BUZZKILL.
ZZZZZZZZZZ ZZZZZZZZZZZ
Wish I could log in to Huffington. I’ve tried to register several times in the past, but they never send the log-in information.
they would just ban your posts anyway
mine never show up
only once did they post it, and it was when I commented on the Bataan Death March comment, that they let up as it didnt directly offend their UHHHBAMA lovin censors
the media totally censors our speech and that is why the bubble of perception that they used to create the reality of Uhhbamanation worked so well, but in the GE the GOP will be there I HOPE to pop the bubble…..
Try registering again using a web-based e mail account such as Gmail.
Many people fail to get their registration e mails when they try to sign onto various forums because their ISP’s have spam mail filters in place that won’t pass on e mail from certain sources. With many ISPs you receive no notification of failed incoming mail.
With an account such as Gmail, anything that has been misidentified as spam can still be retrieved from the spam folder.
The Obama Campaign and its media co-conspirators working under Karl Rove continue to frame the debate their way.
It was the media, if you recall, that promoted the Obama “movement”. And the professionally produced Obama Girl video gave him the rock star image.
Now the protest against the DNC declaration of Obama as the nominee - which is pure fiction, since superdelegates can’t vote until August - is being framed as a bunch of hysterical women who can’t control their emotions.
You see how this works? If you’d like to join in a campaign to pressure the Senate Commerce Committee to investigate the media collusion, which violates anti-trust law, please click on my screen name for info and contact links.
Yet and STILL how’s that unity thing going???
What shit this writer is.
Buzzkill. you betcha. As in buzzkill democratic nominee, if its not hillary. With PLEASURE.
Another rebuttal:
http://www.democraticwings.com/democraticwings/archives/womens_rights/002044.php
Well that is what I call doing the job of reporting the news, feedback and the real voices that are expressing how they “us”, feel about this election and its outcome, one very important. We will be facing very important changes, challenges and battles in the years to come, that only ‘the most qualified’ person should be the one leading this nation.
We cannot vote just Democrat for whoever the DNC are obtuse to make us believe is the ‘one’, imagine if we had to vote for a ‘cute puppy’ because the DNC and the paid polls says so or whoever that comes with the idea of marketing the ‘one’ chosen by billionaires, who will be indeed the ‘hidden presidency’ moving the strings of their puppet…no, we cannot allow the government continue behaving in such irresponsible way! Stop the madness for God’s sake!
Susan, as you has advised me, here I am posting my answer to an email from the Hillary’s campaign. I think it fits with this thread…
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
—– Original Message —-
From: Hillary Clinton
To: xxxxx@yahoo.com
Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2008 7:27:58 AM
Subject: Something I want to say
Dear Milly,
You have been such an inspiration to me during this campaign — your commitment and your boundless enthusiasm made everything we accomplished in the last 17 months possible. So as I continue to make sure your voices are heard, I wanted to say a special thank you for all the hard work you did on my behalf.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
And my answer…
Dear Madame President,
I am the one that want to say thank you for the powerful message you delivered through your outstanding campaign, you indeed are the right person to lead this country. I will support only you, no one else. I am sorry but my commitment is that with my vote…I will put in the White House the most qualified person, I won’t vote Democrat, knowing that the candidate as at this date I am writing this, is “Sen. Obama” if chosen as the candidate from the DNC, that man will not get my vote.
And I have questioned with the information that is out there, how come this man is in politics, don’t the government has respect for their citizens anymore? That anyone ‘who can find billionaires to support any one who can dance at the rhythm they play”…can become the President? Allowing that person to have ‘all the classified and important’ information in his hands, destroying this great nation?
I am sorry, but I will do all that is in my power to not allow the United States to become the United States of Corruption.
Again, my best wishes to you Sen and soon to be our Madame President, yes I am still hopeful, that justice will be served! You made me proud of being a woman and human being, just keep fighting dear Hillary, remember your commitment is with your ‘people those who voted for you’…those who believe in your projects, ideas, your vision for a better future.
And remember you are committed to abide by your principles too, do no let anyone to force you to act different from what ‘you are’ Hillary Rodham, not another manipulated politician who only wants to secure a seat in the senate. Fight for your principles and for ‘us’…we need you, and you will have us behind and besides you, but do not ask us to support a candidate that is contrary to what we believe is the best for our country, thanks!
Be blessed Sen Rodham,
Milly
excelllent post, thanks you
Oh, and I’m pissed at Salon too-for
posting this s***!
I thought the Salon article was pretty good, myself. It captured the thinking I’ve seen expressed repeatedly.
Of course, not all of us are identical. Some hate one more than another.
I don’t believe you are the target audience of her article. It’s more for Obama supporters, and how they can turn you back.
If that’s how they think they can “turn us back”…they lose!!!
There’s no turning back. We’ve done it before, but no more!
“buzzkills” implies the subject is high on drugs.
And the reality of “going to the dentist” is bring “them” down. Good for the kool-aid addicts.
FF, if a person writes to a “targeted audience” that is not journalism, it is propaganda.
Btw, buzzkill? ao 70’s. How old is this person anyway? We’re the old, bitter ones. Hmmm
The article is patronizing and glib. =
But since the subject is anti-Obama and buzzkillers, this could only mean one thing, we have them by the short hairs.
Their mantra “they’ve got no place to go” is pure unadulterated BULLSHIT.
We don’t have to vote. We could for Mickey Mouse. Most assuredly our money won’t go for any democrat and especially not to the DNC. How are those convention plans working out? HA!
First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you when. _M. Gandhi.
I think I figured out why everyone hates it. It’s the last paragraph. LOL*
I get it. I just ignore the conclusion, myself. They are slicing and dicing this too much.
Fact is: Obama is going to have problems winning over several groups. We’re just one. There’s a big tent now of people with major reservations about the Democratic candidate.
They’d be wise to pay attention to some of the other groups, too.
I dont know, Ann, it’s sounds like high priced, clinical insanity, to me.
For example, some guy has a PhD, say, and because he has a PhD, and can comb his hair, he makes a pronouncement that DK, and NQ are the same. Say the PHD is part of an effort to control information flow, part of a propaganda push, an Internet metaphor for a war strategy, blog v blog, like fantasy sports teams.
Just say’in…(lol)
The two blogs are not the same, that’s pretty easy to see, ( for smart, people, anyway.) Some people can analyze, some can’t, Mr ivy league kook can’t tell the difference because his own lens, his own perceptions, are batshit insane, and simply inferior, intellectually. He is NOT an analyst, though he thinks himself one, and is treated as such, by those who don’t know any better.
So the kook treats the blogs the same as he tries to game them against each other, engineering “a civil war,” starting a war to throw the little Internet social system into chaos, thinking he can gain control of all if he causes enough structural dysfunction within the various Internet information organizations (divide and conquer). But he continually fails to achieve this, the ivy sheep who surround him too poorly trained to understand WHY he is wrong, themselves not that smart, despite their “pedigrees,” and pretensions, victims of their own snobbery, and personality disorders, they are unable to underestand WHY he fails, and continue on with a losing plan. And though they cannot define WHY he is failing, they do have a vague sense something is wrong, as their OWN organization is suffering. All are a product of the corporate mediocre same think, none ever able to mount an effective counter offensive, allowing him to lead them over a cliff, say, because they can’t analyze why he is a failure, they can’t even recognize his insanity.
Like the real war, in Iraq, and it’s kook US leaders and planners.
The war can be handled, it can be done by a smart person, a Clinton, but not by this crowd of morons.
It won’t take a hundred years, that’s a retread from Ivy League batshit, sorry.
Now imagine this guy is in the army, or the US government, and he determines economic and domestic policy, we’re fucked, right?
And imagine the more this guy loses, because of his own batshit insane ineptness, the more he tries to strip the Constitution, because it’s not HIS fault, he simply needs more control, yeah, that’s the ticket, the Constitution is in the way, he needs more control. And the stupid Ivy lemmings, like this t0on, in Salon, agree to his batshit insanity, because they can’t recognize what is really happening here, so unqualified are they.
You think anyone ever called the real Hitler a fucking nut, who couldn’t do the job?
Sorry for the mistakes, I should have edited, I’m in a bit of a hurry, this morning…
Again, a little “Lyman” in every cereal bowl, the breakfast of champions…
LOLOLOLOLOLOL
Speaking of cereal, I tried to make Brazilian cheese bread yesterday, cheese poofs, they’re called, gluten free, no cereal, and they didn’t turn out.
Another try today…
Tapioca powder instead of flour, they tasted like a glut of baking soda, and cheese.
my first attempt with bread, the baking soda didn’t work out so well either. the second loaf of bread i made, my room mate at the time ate it all while i was out. she said it was very good. she was lucky i was so fond of her. smile
Totally agree, Peter. You nailed it.
Clarity is not the same as intellectualism.
Someone who holds a PhD. has developed analytical skills having completed his requirements and written a thesis. Now he can still be biased and “batshit crazy” as can anyone. Sometimes despite abundant information, people still make decisions based on their gut feeling. Obama supporters sound guiltier of this than Clinton supporters. They just tell you they think the country is ready for a change or they believe in Obama’s message of hope. Sounds pretty fucking cultish to me, Peter Pentagram Picked a Peck of Pickled Peppers. I would be interested to see how the numbers for AA membership matches up with whites voting for Obama. I can understand blacks voting for him in the primaries. It’s the educated middle class progressive whites who sound like cult members.
I lived in the academia world, although I was involved through marriage.
One thing that drove me nuts was that there was intense peer pressure to adopt the most left-sounding position. However, the analysis of why that was a better position was not forthcoming.
It was, in short, a bunch of people who were anti-Vietnam war, loved being a rebel, and never grew up. So, so disappointing! I loved, obviously, really discussing issues.
You’ve never met a bigger bunch of chicken phonies when it came to rolling up your sleeves and discussing anything much.
Just a kind of club….didn’t mean squat.
excuse me the death treats to tavis smily came from the aa community so your analysis is a tad off. also having an advanced degree doesn’t mean that what you say is accurate. it means that you might give it a hearing and consideration. i have an advanced degree but depend on doing a good job and not my degree for success. that is reality. many from the academia don’t have a sense of the real world quite often.
“All theory and no practice” as they say.
It’s an awful choice!
We can vote for the same group that brought us the LIE called Iraq and the continued tax breaks for the MILLIONAIRES under McCain
or we can vote for the
NEW GREEN Black Liberation Theology raised bi racial Chicago politician that really wasn’t supposed to be the first choice but instead a more dirty POL Blago”something”
someone who is neither Democrat nor Progressive
or someone who is fine with tax cuts for the wealthy while our country has been bankrupt and would continue this eXPENSIVE DEADLY detour when Afghanistan is falling apart again and soldiers are weak and weary from 3 & 4 tours of duty for NOTHING!
jmo
Clinton was the best choice, and I’m bummed she’s out of the race now. McCain is not part of the PNAC crowd, though. Yes, he’s a Republican. He is not in lock step with the Bush administration, and I think he is more progressive than Obama.
I am going to come right out and call BS on Obama’s populist assurances that he is going to take money from billionaires and give it to the underprivileged. I feel better about McCain’s fight against earmarks than Obama’s proposed 12.5% tax hike and policies like green sector investment that would take at least five years to show progress. He doesn’t want to cut back. He only wants to introduce more bureaucracy and new programs. You can’t do it during a recession.
We hate the war, but it is showing improvement. I think McCain would be a better CIC than Obama who would make disastrous mistakes.
Uhhbama already laid a corporate tax cut on the table and said he would perhaps hold off on rolling back the Bush tax cuts, he is a Freidmanite in Progressive clothing
get ready for fees up the whazoo when he does the privatization of SS the money managers are rubbing thei fat hands together in anticipation, now that they totally fxxked the housing market, the Fed will start raising rates soon, ensuring that the 68% home ownership falls down back beneath 60% and who will be pushed out, why the AA and other “traditionally” diesnfranchised groups, and what will Uhhbama do to help them? why nothing, he already got his cut from Credit Suisse, this is their problem, and dont look to Chris Countrywide VIP Dodd to help either or Barney I sold out the LGBT community by pushing Hill out Frank, nope the low income home seekers are on their own for the first time, b/c many good hearted lifelong liberals are sick of being called racists for the glory of Uhhbama and will be in the GOP camp for years to come…very sad what is happening.
if we are all struggling to get by on SS privatized world of Uhhbama and his 7% GDP giveaway to the world we will hold onto our little piece of pie that much tighter and frankly lots of goodwill has been jettisoned in the name of THE ONE….
yup….I just posted on another thread to someone who said, “You should be logical and vote your interests!” that if I’m totally self-interest motivated, then McCain has me in the bag.
Good grief. His capital gains tax alone will hurt most small investors far more than it will affect the money boyz.
obama is so not suited to be president that it is breath taking.
The money boys will just move their money. They can afford to. Mom and Pop don’t have off-shore accounts.
Exactly, Hope! This part of his tax plan makes me wildly angry. He’s going to blow it for so many of us who have small investment retirement accounts. *arrrrggggghhhhh*
I’ll let the younger well-heeled discuss the tax rate increase. That doesn’t hit me.
He’s also talking about going BACK to that hideous estate tax. Oh lordy, it took years to get that thing knocked out. Worst dang thing for middle-class families on record. Yeah, right make us all spend half the inheritance on probate. No wonder his bundlers are mostly lawyers. Here’s comes the payoff.
I don’t know, although she scatter hit some of the things I think most of us felt at one time or another, she definitely missed the mark in her conclusion that we have no where else to go. This makes me think it’s just more media propaganda.
Here’s a rebuttal at Huffpo no less, and is worth the hit even though I usually avoid that site like the plague:
http://tinyurl.com/43w7we
I am one of those Hillary women who will never support or vote for Obama. Angry? You betcha at the hypocrisy of the Democratic Party’s mantra “count all the votes” and they didn’t in Florida and Michigan.
But even Kos and Moveon.org is ‘upset’ realizing that his group “doesn’t have much choice” and many of those so-called young progressives are angry at Obama’s vote to continue FISA. Obama is not presidential material. Period.
The Democratic Party in its lust for power and control are trying to DUPE us, the AA votes etc, disenfranchizing millions of women and will cut their nose off to spite their face. Howard Dean and Obama need to step down. They both underestimated that many Americans still believe in principles, truth, honesty, the American way, over any party loyalty.
NOBAMA!
I agree I will never support Obama.
http://nocache.homestead.com/nativeamericansagainstobama/index.html
Interesting that you mentioned FISA and MoveOn.org. Here’s part of the text included in MoveOn’s recent e-mail concerning it:
On Friday, House Democrats caved to the Bush administration and passed a bill giving a get-out-of-jail-free card to phone companies that helped Bush illegally spy on innocent Americans.1
This Monday, the fight moves to the Senate. Senator Russ Feingold says the “deal is not a compromise; it is a capitulation.”2 Barack Obama announced his partial support for the bill, but said, “It does, however, grant retroactive immunity, and I will work in the Senate to remove this provision so that we can seek full accountability for past offenses.”3
Last year, after phone calls from MoveOn members and others, Obama went so far as to vow to “support a filibuster of any bill that includes retroactive immunity for telecommunications companies.”4 We need him to honor that promise.
Can you call Senator Obama today and tell him you’re counting on him to keep his word? Ask him to block any compromise that includes immunity for phone companies that helped Bush break the law.
It’s really amazing that MoveOn.org (which formally endorsed Obama before SuperTuesday) finds itself having to get members (who, in theory, were responsible for the endorsement itself) to contact Obama to make sure he votes the “right way”. Obama was supposed to be THE “progressive candidate”, the one who stood for a complete and total reversal of all of Dubya’s failed policies. And now, they’re reduced to issuing a plea for Obama to stick to his earlier word. It’s almost ironic, in a way.
How about the hypocrisy of a candidate who said :
“It’s clear, this election [Michigan]is not gonna count for anything” ?
that’s what they were TOLD you dummy
they all were told that
they were all LIED TO
NO ONE read the rules
if they had
none of this would have ended like this
What is “that” ?
Who are “they”
What “rules”
It look like my link does not work. Censorship ? Here it is:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ULxxBz-PAjg
the DNC - DEAN
rules and stupid bylaws committee
Oh, you mean the Rules and Bylaw Commitee who decided in August 2007 to penalize Florida and Michigan at near unanimity (minus one Obama supporter).
They were told that their delegates would not be seated and every candidates pledged in writing not to campaign and participate.
Hillary said it herself :
“It’s clear, this election [Michigan]is not gonna count for anything”
(New Hampshire Public Radio 10/11/07)
Did Michigan in the end count for anything? No. It looks like Hillary Clinton was a veritable Cassandra then. Except she didn’t see Michigan counting for Obama who removed his name from the ballot and was somehow given four of her delegates in addition to 50 from people who never voted for him.
Rule 11 clearly prohibits primaries or caucuses from being held prior to the first Tuesday in February, except in Iowa, New Hampshire, Nevada and South Carolina, each of which is assigned very specific limits on when they may hold their contests.
According to Rule 11, Iowa could hold its caucus no earlier than January 14, New Hampshire no earlier than January 22, and South Carolina no earlier than January 29.
Further, in accordance with Rule 20.C: “The number of pledged delegates elected … shall be reduced by 50 percent.”
The DNC and the RBC broke its own rules and fixed an election for an entirely unsuitable candidate who could not win on his own merit. According to the rules, five states broke them and only one state had a legitimate excuse - Florida’s date was set by the Republican state legislature.
IA, SC, NH and MI should have had 50% of their delegates stripped from the get go, no ifs ands or buts. Those were the rules.
First Obama was not the only one to remove his name from the ballot, Edward did it to.
Second, the RBC voted on three resolutions, one by Clinton’s campaign, one by Obama’s campaign and one by the Michigan Democratic Party.
From what I know of the RBC meeting, Obama’s resolution could have passed 14-13. Instead, Obama’s supporters (and some of Clinton’s) preferred the Michigan Democratic Party’s resolution by 18-9.
Anyway,nobody should have been given delegates from Florida and Michigan
Right. Edwards, Dodd, Biden and Obama all voluntarily removed their names from the Michigan ballot. Somehow you Lemmingcrats think if everyone else does it, it’s ok.
This was a calculated move to throw out votes in Michigan and pander to voters in Iowa. Not only that, but with four absent candidates, how can Obama claim Michigan’s uncommitted voters. That breaks, in fact, the Democratic charter.
I’m talking about rules here. They are supposed to be universally enforced to avoid these debacles. According to the rules, out of the five states who broke them, only Florida could be waived, as the Dems in that state did everything they could to comply. Florida delegates should all have been seated.
You have no idea what you’re talking about. You’re just repeating the memos faxed out from the Obama camp.
How many persons voted for Clinton when they did not find the name of their candidates on the ballot ?
How many Democrats voted Republicans in Michigan ?
The Michigan Democratic Party’s solution was a flawed solution to a flawed primary.
They were seated, with an half-vote. If I remember well, the decision of the RBC was unanimous.
Maybe. Politics is not my field.
ad hominem
zerostress ..you don’t knwo what the hell you are talking about..i suggest you go to the FDP web site and read the damn facts before you spew anymore of your totally incorrect bullshit here.
fly.. a 2004 elected dem delegate for the state of Fla.
How about the hypocrisy of a candidate
Zero…I lifted your words out of context..change the meaning of your response???
I’ve tried to find the whole interview at NHPR to read it full. No success. If you find it, be sure to let me know.
Some more quotes:
“THEREFORE, I _______________, Democratic Candidate for President, pledge
[emphasis is mine] in any state which schedules a presidential
election primary or caucus before Feb. 5, 2008, except for the states of Iowa,
Nevada, New Hampshire and South Carolina, as “campaigning” is defined by
rules and regulations of the DNC.”
Context is there : http://tinyurl.com/33xllv
Neither candidate campaigned in FL or MI. There is still a primary, though, and names were on the ballots. Signing a pledge to not campaign is not the same as scrapping an election.
I know that in Florida, they had at the same time an election on a tax proposal. I do not think that the result of that election were invalidated by the RBC’s ruling.
I’m not sure I get your argument here. I don’t understand why people are upset about the fact that Michigan and Florida are getting a half-vote for their delegates while they supposed to get none.
The popular vote always stands. The rules only apply to the delegates. Florida should have had all their delegates seated. Michigan should only have had half their delegates stripped. I already posted Rule 20.C. What is so difficult about reading for you?
But barky DID campaign in FL and should have been disqualified with no votes and no delegates.
According to the 2007 RBC’s rulings, nobody should had any votes and/or delegates.
The RBC broke the rules. That’s why Ickes said he would take it to the credentials committee. Arlen Specter, a Republican on the Senate Judiciary Committee, has stated he is open to holding hearings on the DNC and RBC decisions on Michigan and Florida.
change the subject, troll. this one is a loser for you. And here you are trying to defend a corrupt politician and a corrupt party leadership. Stalin would like you.
How’s that FISA reversal doing for you? How about the blank check on Iraq funding? How about that fake presidential seal behind which Obambi was pretending to be president?
you’ve already failed in your troll duties today. I’d say you scored a ZERO.
Like I said her in a previous thread last night, it is quite a deception. It’s true also that I never thought he was the Messiah so I am not in mourning. I just think that he is the best candidate in this race
The funding of the war in Iraq ? I expect him to vote for it. I expect also Hillary to vote for it.
A very bad PR move.
Nobody in their right minds believed Obama actually stood for reform, ethics or judgment. So you can relate to Obama and his self-serving politics. We appreciate your candor.
The DNC and the Michigan Deocratic Party had two choices, they cound count the votes as they were cast, or they could NOT count the votes as cast. They decided to CHANGE the votes that were cast. This is what happens in Banana Republics and this is what the DEMS have become, they have lost my support after voting for Dems for 35 years.
So, NoQuarter is starting to remove my comments.
I understand them, truth is so annoying, can’t have that.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ULxxBz-PAjg
burp.
best to get rid of farts as they are smelly and don’t mean anything but rotting from within. why do you think Obama’s kids call him “stinky”?
Get the rest of the quote and will see that Senator Clinton wanted the votes counted in Michigan and in fact was saying that the voters MUST have their votes counted.
Quit pushing BS ok?
Like I said, I could not find the complete interview at NHPR. If you know where it is, please let me know. I will gladly read it, since I am a firm believer in accuracy and fairness.
People here quote 30 seconds of 10-14 minutes of a Reverend Wright’s sermon daily so spare me the “quoting out of context” crap.
you can always leave, stinky.
Your excuse for printing a half quote that is deliberately misleading is that you feel hearing the entirety of Rev. Wright’s sermons justify his racist, sexist and unpatriotic comments?
Which part before or after GODDAMN AMERICA USA OF KKK makes it salient political commentary… in a church?
Which part of “Hillary Clinton ain’t never been called a nigger” made that comment any less sexist or racist?