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“White Guilt” Politics of Obama Crowd Undermined

If you believe the rhetoric of the “social justice” crowd influencing the Obama camp’s approach to education policy - the authoritarian leftists Bill Ayers and his sidekick Mike Klonsky as well ed school professors like Linda Darling-Hammond

and Gloria Ladson-Billings - only reparations for 400 years of oppression of non-whites will allow us to close the “achievement gap” between the oppressors, whites, and the oppressed, minority kids.  

This crowd supports a new idea - arguing that it is time to replace the attack on the “achievement gap” between minority and white/Asian students with a new concept called “educational debt” that has allegedly piled up over centuries in U.S. history.  

Lying behind this argument is a pernicious concept - that white workers benefit at the expense of black workers and that more widely American workers live off the backs of workers in the third world.  This is at the heart of the authoritarian and anti-union politics of the Ayers/Klonsky crowd.  

Of course, such a conclusion would come as a shock to the millions of white workers in this country who earn essentially the same income as most black workers (though, of course, there are far more whites than blacks who earn significantly more).  And it would also come as a shock to those American workers, white and black, whose jobs have been shipped off to China or Mexico.  

Despite the absurdity of these views, it is this idea of “unequal exchange” between north and south, or inside the U.S. between black and white, that explains a good deal about the politics of those in this crowd who cozy up to demagogues like Venezuela strongman Hugo Chavez or, for that matter, Louis Farrakhan.  The authoritarian leftist camp convinces itself that “the enemy of my enemy is my friend.”

Klonsky and Ayers, of course, are veterans of this kind of race-based politics. Klonsky formed the pro-China October League out of SDS and then morphed that into the Communist Party (Marxist-Leninist) which earned him an invitation to sip tea with Chinese stalinists in Beijing in 1977.

The Chinese were the originators of the idea that the rural third world south was being exploited by the urban developed world north.  Klonsky fondly reminisced about his authoritarian left activities here in November 2007 stopping only to “repent” for his sectarianism while celebrating that he is now back together with former SDS comrades in “one movement.” Now Klonsky blogs for the Obama campaign website on education policy and “social justice teaching.”

Ayers helped tear apart SDS to form the Weather Underground with his future wife, Bernardine Dohrn, arguing that carrying out armed robberies and bombings “in solidarity” with black revolutionaries was the number one priority for student anti-war activists. Now he peddles “white supremacy” and other ideas in his peculiar so-called “social justice” approach to educational policy.

But this world view took a huge hit this week with the release of new research on what is actually happening in U.S. schools.  In light of the new results is it possible the social justice education crowd knew they would need a new idea to keep their hopes of influencing the national policy debate alive? Is that what explains the campaign over the last two years or so by this milieu to push the educational debt/reparations idea?

The new research by the non-partisan Center on Education Policy (CEP) indicates that over the last five years, since the passage of No Child Left Behind in 2002, there has been measurable improvement in test scores for millions of students including a narrowing of the “achievement gap” between whites and non-whites (leaving out Asians, of course, who, despite racist “oppression” somehow escape the effect of that alleged oppression when they show up for school - when it comes to Asians, it’s whites who are falling behind, though not presumably because of the oppression of whites by Asians).  

The results may only be coincidental, of course, but the CEP report is pretty convincing that real improvement can occur in closing the achievement gap between white and minority kids without also atoning for every sin (and those were and are real enough) ever committed against non-whites, as the “social justice” crowd insists.

The CEP Press Release concludes:

Student scores on state tests of reading and mathematics have risen since 2002, and achievement gaps between various groups of students have narrowed more often than they have widened, according to the most comprehensive and rigorous recent analysis of state test scores. 


21 states made moderate-to-large gains in math in both percentages proficient and effect sizes at the elementary level, while 22 states showed gains of this size on both indicators in middle school and 12 states posted such gains for high school. 

In reading, 17 states had moderate-to-large gains in percentages proficient and effect sizes at the elementary level, 14 states made such gains for middle school, and eight states showed gains for high school. Additional numbers of states made slight gains on one or both indicators or showed improvement on one indicator but lacked data on the other.

With respect specifically to the achievement gap between whites and non-whites and higher income and lower income students, the CEP’s Executive Summary states:

In states with sufficient data to determine achievement gap trends on state tests, gaps have narrowed more often than they have widened since 2002, particularly for African American students and low-income students. Gap trends were also largely positive for Latino students, but this finding is less conclusive because in many states the Latino subgroup has changed significantly in size in recent years.On thewhole, percentages proficient and effect sizes revealed similar trends of narrowing or widening, although percentages proficient gave a more positive picture of achievement gap trends than effect sizes.

Here is how they summarize the results in California:

Overall achievement

• From 2003 to 2007 in reading, students made moderate-to-large gains in both percentages proficient and effect sizes at the elementary and middle school grades analyzed. At the high school level, the percentage proficient declined slightly and effect size showed no change.

• In math, achievement on both indicators increased at a moderate-to-large rate at the elementary and high school levels. At the middle school grade analyzed, percentages proficient declined slightly but effect sizes increased at a moderate-to-large rate.

Achievement gaps

• From 2003 to 2007, the African American-white gap at the elementary level showed no change in reading but narrowed in math, according to both indicators. At the middle school grade analyzed, trends varied by subject and indicator. At the high school level, gaps in percentages proficient narrowed in reading and math; no effect size data were available for subgroups at this level.

• Gaps between Latino and white students narrowed in both reading and math at the elementary level, according to both indicators. Gaps widened at the middle school level in reading on both indicators. At the high school level, gaps stayed the same in reading and narrowed in math, according to the percentage proficient.

• In reading, gaps between Native American and white students narrowed according to percentages proficient but widened according to effect sizes. In math, this gap narrowed at the elementary level on both indicators. Middle school trends varied by indicator. At the high school level, percentage proficient gaps narrowed in both reading and math.

• Gaps between low-income students and all students stayed the same in elementary reading and narrowed in elementary math, according to both indicators. At the middle school level, reading gaps showed no net change on either indicator. At the high school level, gaps in the percentage proficient narrowed in both reading and math.

Clearly still a long way to go but the improvement for younger kids is particularly heartening. The pro-NCLB crowd, shrinking day by day, will not take much comfort from the report which is unable to conclude that NCLB caused the improvements. But the testing regime now in place across the country at least lets us assess change over time.  

And these results certainly suggest that any proposal for putting “repayment of 400 years of educational debt owed to people of color” at the top of a President Obama administration, as Ayers, Ladson-Billings, and Darling-Hammond argue should be the case, is likely wrong-headed.

Center on Education Policy

_____________________

From my blog, Global Labor and the Global Economy.

Read my other posts here at No Quarter.

About me: I am a law professor and political scientist on the faculty of Santa Clara University School of Law in Santa Clara, California, which is in the heart of Silicon Valley. I teach courses on the global capital markets, the international economy, corporate governance and international labor and human rights. Prior to joining the faculty I was in private legal practice in New York and in Palo Alto. I also have an extensive background in the labor movement and advise a wide range of unions, workers and institutional investors on financial and legal issues. This website is an independent project and hence is my responsibility and it is not affiliated in any other way with the law school or Santa Clara University.

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Comment by AA4HILL | 2008-06-26 10:57:01

Call To Arms. Time To Put Up Or SHUT UP.
July 4th INDEPENDENCE DAY.
Green Rain For McCain and Hillary FREEDOM Day
We are asking everyone thats supports Hillary and/or voting McCain (Democrats, Independents and Republicans) to demonstrate True Unity and send $5.44 to John McCain and $10.44 to Pay Hillary’s debt. Your donations can be greater or less just remember to include .44. No more BLUFFING, No more on the FENCE, No more WAITING on the DNC. July 4th they will hear our answer to us coming HOME.

Comment by LindaA1 | 2008-06-26 12:00:25

Until the vote is taken at the convention in August, there is still a long shot chance that Hillary can become the Democratic nominee.

WE SHOULD NOT BE DONATING MONEY TO JOHN McCAIN UNTIL AFTER THAT VOTE CONFIRMS OBAMA AS NOMINEE!

Donating money to McCain now could be handing money to Hillary’s rival in the General Election.

 

Comment by Jennifer | 2008-06-26 12:06:00

I think we need to donate money to Hillary now. I checked with her campaign and all of the money goes only to Hillary. The July 4th idea is a good idea, but Senator Obama already asked his top donors to help her. I don’t want Hillary to have to take his money. She doesn’t owe him or the DNC anything.

Comment by sleepy | 2008-06-26 12:24:10

No, Hillary doesn’t owe Obama anything.

But, I bet she’ll happily take the money and in return, campaign for him.

 
 

Comment by ginaswo still says no Uhhbama | 2008-06-26 13:22:39

you got it, I can give to Hill AND McCain

Comment by Lyn | 2008-06-26 20:02:36

hope you win the bus seat or another PUMA gets to ride the straight talk express, (McCain has a contest, anyone that donates in the next couple of days can spend the day with him)

 
 
 

Comment by valsthewoman | 2008-06-26 11:09:37

RACE RELIGION AND OBAMA CONVERSATION:
written by a hillary loyalist on June 26, 2008

The Presidential Race in America today has shed light upon a topic that few white Americans have felt comfortable discussing aloud in Public. The subject in review is race and black theology or religion in America. Read what every American must discuss even if it is to yourself.
http://hillaryloyalistnowformccain.com/racereligionandobama.aspx

Comment by Uppity | 2008-06-26 11:13:18

I don’t care to read any more excuses shit. Barack Obama is a misogynist sexist pig. I don’t see anybody worrying about that. So as far as I am concerned, I don’t give a rat’s ass about discussing anything any longer.

Now if somebody wants to talk to me about reparations for the Native Americans, from whom we STOLE this whole damned country, you might tweak my guilt nodes.

Comment by RedDragon62 | 2008-06-26 11:56:52

YOU GO GIRL! LOL

 

Comment by dragonlady | 2008-06-26 12:21:14

Right on Uppity!

 

Comment by Zeke | 2008-06-26 12:25:03

Here’s what BO has to say about this stuff himself:

From Dreams of My Father: ‘I ceased to advertise my mother’s race at the age of 12 or 13, when I began to suspect that by doing so I was ingratiating myself to whites.’
>From Dreams of My Father : ‘I found a solace in nursing a pervasive sense of grievance and animosity against my mother’s race.’
>From Dreams of My Father: ‘There was something about him that made me wary, a little too sure of himself, maybe. And white.’
From Dreams of My Father: ‘It remained necessary to prove which side you were on, to show your loyalty to the black masses, to strike out and name names.’
From Dreams of My Father: ‘I never emulate white men and brown men whose fates didn’t speak to my own. It was into my father’s image, the black man, son of Africa, that I’d packed all the attributes I sought in myself, the attributes of Martin and Malcolm, DuBois and Mandela.’

And FINALLY the most damning one of ALL of them

From Audacity of Hope: ‘I will stand with the Muslims should the political winds shift in an ugly direction.’

Well, the winds are shifting, Barry. They’ve shifted so that they blow across the cesspool of hateful, recriminatory, shit which is your soul. You couldn’t lead a crowd of soccer hooligans into a free drinks bar. You lying son of a bitch.

Comment by Uppity | 2008-06-26 14:31:56

Dreams I pulled out of my ass From my Father is a work of fiction.

 

Comment by blkmn(real) HRC supporter | 2008-06-26 18:01:57

How come no one has TALKED about this??? These QUOTES from his BOOK, need to be turned into a AD!!!!!!!!

Comment by Uppity | 2008-06-26 21:54:55

The chicago tribune exposed his lying book bullshit long ago.

 
 
 

Comment by click212 | 2008-06-26 12:52:53

Ditto to Uppity.

 

Comment by Bigtime | 2008-06-26 13:06:54

Amen!! I have been a Democrat my whole life and worked and supported all the causes. If I hear the race card being played again , It is really gonna piss me off. Hussein Obama wants to be divisive, well then that’s what he is gonna get. I know his general demeanor of arrogance and his “friendships” as well as proud Dom Micheil are alienating everyone I come into contact with at work. I have never heard anyone mention his race. Inexperience, Wright, Rezko, Ayers, Dohrn, Levine, Sinclair, Farrakhan, NOI, Pfleger, Chicago corruption, Muslum born?(not sure why that matters but I do not stop people from telling me why they are not voting for Hussein Obama), TUCC, Black Liberation Theology, circle of radical advisers, etc. , but never race. there is literally pages of reasons not to support him and never need to mention race.

 

Comment by fdrjim | 2008-06-26 13:32:10

Right on! I will no longer be silent - it’s time we all raise our voices - I am not afraid of the truth - BHO is a sexist, plays the victim/racist card - and cares little about our country - just his ego.

 

Comment by Dawnelle | 2008-06-26 18:03:14

Indeedy do!! ^5 to TRUTH!

 

Comment by KarenAnn | 2008-06-26 18:12:04

As a matter of fact, Uppity, a revered democrat, Andrew Jackson, was the one who instigated, no demanded, the Indian Removal Act, which resulted in the Trail of Tears. This after they were responsible for the American victory over the Brits in New Orleans. Jackson gave them promises of their ancestral tribal lands, which he then reneged on. This is the uglier history of the Democratic Party. Why they would still honor him as founder of the dems by the various Jefferson/Jackson dinners is beyond me. Native Americans still get the short end of the stick especially in the Northern states. To this day many NAs will not use a $20 bill. Indian casinos and Oklahoma Indian oil fields I consider well earned revenge against the white man. The Federal Gov owes the Native American tribes in the Dakotas millions of dollars and it has been tied up in court for years. The one sympathic judge who was requiring the gov to be fair was removed as being non-objective. What a joke. I found it interesting that most Native American tribes were for Hillary. They obviously did not see anything enlightening about Obama.

Comment by Uppity | 2008-06-26 21:59:33

You know what really endears me about the Native Americans? They don’t WHINE. They REALLY got the shaft and they don’t WHINE. They SHOULD whine, but they don’t!

In some counties in the NE, the Native American businesses are the only things holding the economy together! And what does our government want to do? Tax their asses so that they fail too! If you ask me, we could LEARN something from the Native American businesses that are successful. Namely, that when government stays the hell out of your way, you can succeed! Furthermore, I respect them more than I do the white people who want a piece of THEIR pie. Seems to me, when white people wanted nothing to do with them and figured they would all die on reservations, that was just fine. Now that they made something of themselves in SPITE of us, we want some of their action.

If ANYBODY deserves reparations, it’s the Native Americans.

 
 

Comment by P. Hope Rambeau | 2008-06-26 20:13:53

I can’t even feel guilty about the Native Americans any longer owing to the fact that I’m sick of looking at their casinos here in California.

Nope, Hope has no guilt. PERIOD!

Guilt is worthless.

 
 

Comment by educatedwhitewoman | 2008-06-26 12:26:42

Thanks for the very informative article on black liberation theology and its inclusion of marxist thought. Black victims of a racist white society deserve a massive redistribution of wealth, according to TUCC’s warped view of a “hateful” white America.

 

Comment by gentlerabbit | 2008-06-26 18:03:38

well uppity, i see that you are at it once again. you still have not done your homework regarding monies belonging to Native Americans and stolen - mostly by white administrators at the dept. of interior. is there something wrong with you? i am for reparations for the damage done to my people thro the institution of slavery, and the incredible racism practiced by the country, “my” country, for more than a hundred years after the emancipation. do you not study history at all? i mean most of it is written from a white slant anyway, but you can still study the history or your own country thro other written source material. since you seem not to done any research whatsoever let me tell you it. this country long ago settled monies on the Native tribes of this country, once they were nearly decimated and wiped out. These monies were then largely withheld from the tribes down thro the years, some of it stolen, and much of it unclaimed because the inheritors have died. Some of the tribes now have a law suit to recover what may be billions of dollars for 300,000 Native Americans in court now. in this country, on the eve of the civil war, there 4 million slaves in this country, the descendants of 12 to 14 million slaves from the 1400’s, ripped from their homes and brought to these shores. the very infrastructure of this country which you love so much was built on the backs of stolen black americans who have never been compensated for anything which happened to them, not even the promised 40 acres and a mule. once again you have done no homework on what you claim. the millions belonging to native americans could be used to help lift them out of the poverty they’re kept in by whites. i support reparations for the millions of african americans who died knowing nothing but slavery, for the damage done by racism and hatred after they were freed, and for the good the money could do lifting so many of my people out of poverty, to purchase homes for their families, educate their children. will reparations solve all our ills? no, and it may create more, but most of us will use the money for the things we have never had in life, especially that 40 acres. i come to this blog for the news that it gives but it’s beginning to depress me. i have no love for barack obama, i really don’t. i’m caught between a rock and a hard place. i can’t vote for obama because i do believe that he is a crook and liar. i can’t vote for mccain because he represents a party which has long stood for racism. but i’m beginning to wonder what the differences are between you and them. in spite of the fact that i don’t like obmama or what he represents, you can only take so much daily bashing of a black man, which is something whites, the majority in this country, fail to understand. it is because blacks have been so kept down, so mashed down, by one race after the other being allowed to make it in this country, all due to the color of their skin, or the fact that they’re not american born black, they will support anyone who is their own. you must realize that although you may not consider yourself a racist(but i now do), the other half of america is. that half is still practicing discrimination against blacks, still punching us down, still denying us our rights in so many venues. surely you know this. you’re white and you talk to other whites or hear how they talk and witness what they do to blacks, i know you do. i think you need to take another look at yourself and your views, or at least think before you write, and really uppity, you need to do some research on some subjects before opening your mouth and showing how very little you know.

Comment by P. Hope Rambeau | 2008-06-26 20:19:39

Why don’t we all seek reparations from God for putting us on this miserable fucking planet.

 

Comment by KarenAnn | 2008-06-26 20:42:09

So, gentlerabbit, do you want to go back to the 1400’s and figure out reparations for hundreds of years of slavery? hmm. From whom? The slave trade in Africa had been in practice for hundreds of years before the Europeans entered the trade. Kingdoms in Central and West Africa had been trading slaves with the Moslems for centuries. As demand increased middlemen from coastal Africa began going into the interior to round up peoples to sell. So perhaps you can go to Mali, Ghana, Benin, Togo, etc and ask for reparations from them for selling slaves in the first place. And while you are at it check out the fact that slavery still exists in the world. But I don’t hear too many people screaming about it. Am I trying to justify the practice of slavery, a resounding NO. Am I saying that racism did not or does not now exist, a resounding NO. But are a whole people supposed to continue to use that as an excuse for their current lot in life? When I lived in a low income apartment complex I had several African American families as neighbors. I was working 3 jobs to support my son and try to put myself through school. Some of my neighbors sat on the stoop and would joke that I worked too hard. Another neighbor had a teenage son who regularly asked me to check his homework because he wanted it to be correct. I happily did so (not that I was such a brainiac). He would come home from school, change and then go out and hustle for jobs. Shovel snow in the winter, mow lawns in the summer, anything. He graduated with As and Bs, got a scholarship and financial aid and went to college. He wanted to be a teacher. I lived there from the time he was in 8th grade to his sophmore yr in college. and in all those years the other neighbors were still sitting on the stoop asking why work so hard. The point is that it is not someone else that holds a person back, most of the time it is the person themselves.

Comment by gentlerabbit | 2008-06-26 21:54:23

well karenann, i went from welfare to work on my own too. by the time it was all over i was a social worker earning good money. see we aren’t all your stereotypical Negro, now, are we?

Comment by alee21 | 2008-06-26 22:49:33

Chinese came to this country in the late 1800s as indentured laborers and were discriminated against as badly as any other ethnic group.

Yet we don’t go around and demand retribution. In fact, affirmative action doesn’t include Asians.

So it is possible to get ahead without resorting to entitlement and demands for retribution and the 400 year educational debt.

 

Comment by Kelly | 2008-06-27 02:32:43

Please define “stereotypical negro”, gentlerabbit. I thought “African American” or “black” was the modern (except for the NAACP)?

Obama may help you and your dream since he descends from slave owners. (Duvall)

Are you also upset that women had no say in our laws and nation building? Do I get reparations too for all of the land, opportunities and inheritance lost?? Cooooool.

I think it is insane to ask any one person to speak for an entire group of people bound by “hair, skin, and bones” as W.E.B. DuBois said. Likely, Obama has more in common with those who went to Harvard than he does to those living in Compton.

ALL politicans get picked on. Obama does not get a pass just because his father was born in Africa.

I think you need to reframe your identity in things you have accomplished and put all your energy into helping someone less fortunate than you instead of getting mad at people.

Comment by gentlerabbit | 2008-06-28 18:20:39

in case you missed it, it was karenann who was defining me with her subtle hint that blacks are lazy. I actually prefer black american as opposed to african, which i know nothing about, and never have, ie living there or even being born there. this is my home and my birth place. i am black american. it’s my preference. look at what uppity says; to paraphrase; native americans have gotten over what whites did to them why don’t blacks do the same? stop their whining and get on with life. basically my own message is that racism in america is alive and kicking in this country, and it is a problem. i believe that the vast majority of americans, liberals and conservatives now believe that with the work of dr. king dying with him, blacks had all they needed and all they were going to get, and that was all there was to it. one hundred years of intense racism should now be forgotten and set aside, all the discrimination has been conqueresd, and now blacks should just forget all that had gone on before and move on with their lives. easier said than done. housing discrimination, job, education, all still exist in this country. i know, i’ve been there, and in recent times. if i’m getting the message from karenann and uppity that blacks are a lazy, whining lot who don’t want to go out and work, then how many more whites feel this way? if that isn’t the message in there then i’m seeing it wrong, but i don’t believe i am. this blinds whites to the fact that there is still much to be done in this country, it blinds them to the fact that there is still racism, and it is what keeps us from ever furthering race relations. am i saying that whites should feel guilty for what’s happening? no. actually whites don’t have to do a thing at all. but if you don’t then you will wake up to a world that almost looks like other third world countries, and you will be dragged down right along with us too. unless of course you can afford to live in a gated community. but hey, you don’t have to do a darned thing as far as i’m concerned. and believe me, i know you won’t.

 
 

Comment by KarenAnn | 2008-06-27 06:21:30

I can see from your response that you are assuming that I am white. Stereotyoing are we? You have no idea what the color of my skin is but you have pre-judged. I was not speaking to stereotypes, I was speaking to personal empowerment. You empowered yourself through hard work not from being given something. When you work for it you appreciate it. When you don’t it becomes entitlement. No one is entitled. Not me, not anyone. I have never suffered fools or whiners. If I get a bad break I chalk it up to karma and figure something out. One should never whine or gloat, it becomes a self-fullfilling prophecy. In my experience people do not look down on a person because of the color of their skin. They look down a those that are lazy, take credit for work others have done, kiss-ass, lie, cheat and steal, take from others without giving anything back (and I am not talking about just money). If someone gives you a break you use it to better yourself. You don’t just take it, do nothing with it, then come back and ask for more.

 

Comment by Buzz Latte | 2008-06-28 00:44:01

Well, gentlerabbit, your work is not done. If you truly are who you say you are, then you must work to get your own to get off the welfare dime, quit making welfare an occupation, quit having welfare babies, quit selling drugs, quit buying useless bling and listening to music that glorifies killing and disrespecting women. You must tell them that black theology is a destructive force rather than a force for good.

When you, yourself, can become a force for good in these arenas, then you might have some credibility. Until then, you’re just another whiner.

 
 
 

Comment by Uppity | 2008-06-26 22:03:14

Bully for you!

Comment by Uppity | 2008-06-26 22:06:21

well uppity, i see that you are at it once again.

At what once again? Using my first amendment rights that you and Comrade Obama would like to stifle? I earned what’s mine and it’s not yours.

 
 
 
 

Comment by hank48188 | 2008-06-26 11:11:34

Obama and Ayers teamed up to get the Chicago area Grant of about $100 million from the Annenberg Challenge, to improve education in their area. Education did not improve where they spent the money though, but it did win them friends and supporters from the folks getting the money.

Comment by Jack | 2008-06-26 14:12:53

“Social Justice” always seems to be a code word for giving money to “community groups” that will employ as leaders, with generous salaries, the people who espouse “Social Justice.”

 
 

Comment by roseeriter | 2008-06-26 11:11:46

This guilt tripping is so ridiculous! No one in the world has any choice as to their ethnic roots. It sounds like everyone wants to blame something on somebody and no one wants to live the life god gives us whatever it brings. Humanity has a long way to go before it ever finds perfection but money, reparations, guilt are not the answers.

Grow up Obama people. I don’t know what else to say.
We’re only responsible for Our own individual actions. We can learn from the actions of others and decide to not repeat those bad actions again but this blame mentality is foolish and regressive.
I believe that most people are inherently good, but it seems those who are unable to think for themselves and follow mis-thinking leaders into the abyss are doomed for sorrow. Stupid is as stupid does.

 

Comment by Just Another Guy | 2008-06-26 11:12:08

Jim Geraghty @ NRO

“Forget the Birth Certificate

I spoke to Ms. Okubo late Wednesday afternoon, and she said she had seen the version of Obama’s certificate of live birth posted on the sites. While her office cannot verify the information on a form without the permission of the certificate holder (Obama), she said “the form is exactly the same” and it has “all the components of a birth certificate” record issued by the state. In other words, she sees no reason to think the version posted on Obama’s web site and Daily Kos is not genuine.

The “embossed seal” in question is, she said, probably on the back of the document provided to Daily Kos, but not visible (as in another certificate posted on Israel Insider for contrast). She thinks the difference in visibility can be attributed to the pressure used when applying the seal.

I know I was one of the guys who wondered if there was something there when Obama initially refused to provide his birth certificate to PolitiFact. It seems many people continue to think that they will uncover something that will prove Obama was born in Kenya and is therefore ineligible for office of the presidency. As I wrote in the initial post, this scenario is “rather unlikely, as it would require everyone in his family to lie about this in every interview and discussion with those outside the family since young Obama appeared on the scene.” I would add this would require Obama to lie about his birthplace in every interview going back to Harvard Law. “

Comment by Jeremiah God Damn AmeriKKKa Wright | 2008-06-26 11:54:06

lieing about his birthplace in every article going back to harvard law woudl make sense, since he has wanted to be president since he was in kindergarten and i am sure he was aware of the citizenship requirements by then…assuming it is because of his birth place.

 

Comment by LindaA1 | 2008-06-26 12:12:34

I agree. This birth certicate thing seems a little silly. I can see a smear of some kind on the posted document that looks like part of a stamp anyway.

I detest Obama. I am working like crazy to see his rear off the Presidential campaign. I don’t think we help the cause with this kind of nit-picky stuff. There are plenty of big reasons to fight against this man without muddying the water with petty speculation.

I thought birth certificates were public information. If so, why hasn’t someone just checked in out in the courthouse of origin?

In an absence of some irrefutable evidence that Obama was born outside the USA, we should let the birth certificate controversy go. Please!

Comment by Anee | 2008-06-26 12:30:07

The birth certificate is a national security issue IF OB was elected president. Someone out there has the true certificate and can use it against OB to get whatever they want.

Comment by LindaA1 | 2008-06-26 13:20:25

I realize the impact of something proving that Obama is not a citizen and I certainly wouldn’t put it past him to manufacture a birth certificate.

But we have seen no real evidence that the one Obama posted is fake - only speculation.

At this point, we seem to be just rehashing the speculation.

Again, in the absence of any real evidence that the birth certificate is fake, we need to let it go and move on to more provable issues regarding the treachery of Obama - there’s certainly no shortage of them.

 
 
 

Comment by Betty | 2008-06-26 12:37:46

If grandma said get that kid home so we can claim he is an American citizen and then Vital Statistics office in HI office wouldn’t accept the form she filed. Then I can believe that they lied from the get go and continued to lie to this day.

I bet she was in route to HI when she turned up at Mercer Island with a new born baby, why else would she be there, was her bond to these people greater then her bond to the babies father or her parents? But maybe she was just en route from home for unwed mothers in Seattle. If he admitted he was born in Seattle everyone would ask: what was your mom doing in Seattle? Why did she go there to have a baby? The answer is she was an unwed mother. So at best we find out Obama is a bastard, but we already know that.

Why would it be easier to lie than apply for citizenship for him? What obstacles would Ann and her parents have to face if they did that? Are they daunting enough to cause them to just lie?

 

Comment by AnninCa | 2008-06-26 13:00:10

There is a thread devoted to this discussion.

 

Comment by jwrjr | 2008-06-26 13:14:58

To say that “The “embossed seal” in question is, she said, probably on the back of the document provided to the Daily Kos, but not visible” is at best stupid and at worst intentional fraud. Anything embossed is a physical feature of the document in question, in effect a deformation of the paper itself. Anything visible on one side of a document but not on the other is, by definition, not embossed.

 

Comment by America OUR land | 2008-06-26 14:01:12

Just Another Guy>> This is what Janice Okubo told the Isarel Insider….http://web.israelinsider.com/Articles/Politics/12939.htm

An authentic Hawaiian birth certificate for another Hawaiian individual has since surfaced which, using the same official form as the presumptive Obama certificate, includes an embossed official seal and an authoritative signature, coming through from the back. Obama’s alleged certificate lacks those features, and the certificate number referencing the birth year has been blacked out, making it untraceable.

Janice Okubo, Director of Communications of the State of Hawaii Department of Health, told Israel Insider: “At this time there are no circumstances in which the State of Hawaii Department of Health would issue a birth certification or certification of live birth only electronically.” And, she added, “In the State of Hawaii all certified copies of certificates of live birth have the embossed seal and registrar signature on the back of the document.”

Compare the top image presented by his campaign as evidence of Obama’s 1961 birth and the other certifying the birth of one Patricia Decosta.

 

Comment by blkmn(real) HRC supporter | 2008-06-26 18:32:26

It WOULDN’T take everyone in his family to LIE!!!!!! If it is a LIE(NOT sure it IS),it would ONLY take the persons(parents,grandparents,etc.) PRESENT. How many family can tell where another family memeber was born? NObama could have been TOLD as a kid that he was born in Hawaii, but could have ACTUALLY been in Kenya. That SCENARIO is POSSIBLE!!!! NObama08

 
 

Comment by mpr | 2008-06-26 11:20:05

5 of my ancestors fought in the Civil War. 5 Poor Irishmen. 4 Died to free our black citizens. I want reparations!

Yes I’m white!

Where the hell is my money!!!

Comment by LindaA1 | 2008-06-26 12:18:15

YEAH!

My great grandaddy died in World War I fighting for this country and the family lost the farm.

Where the hell is my money???

Comment by P. Hope Rambeau | 2008-06-26 20:21:48

Exactly!

WAH WAH WAH all they do is WHINE about reparations!
No one owes anything PERIOD! How can one expect to be paid for something done to their ancestors hundreds of years ago? This is ridiculous! Talk about unforgiveness leading to entitlement.

 
 

Comment by kevin | 2008-06-26 12:57:25

Well if you subscribe to Irish Liberation Theology, we as descendants of the repressed Irish (see famine, potato) are due big time reparations from England, the oppressors of our ancestors. UKDems, you better pony up the coin, I’m sending Sean and Seamus to collect.
We are also due reparations from WASP America for denying our ancestors employment, education and housing, even though our ancestors overcame it through hard work, a sense of community, raising up each subsequent generation to achieve more and create better lives for their progeny.
I want my due!
gimme

Comment by ginaswo still says no Uhhbama | 2008-06-26 13:25:45

absolutely

and since my ancestors were the Lords of Tir Mac Carhein, Ill be wanting that nice arable farmland in Ireland back too..

and that Know Nothing party descendants, well they owe we Irish Need Not Apply some nice corner offices someplace…..

 
 
 

Comment by Denise | 2008-06-26 11:20:05

Voting for Obama would be a lie. So far the only reason the Democratic has given us for voting for Obama is to protect our reproductive rights.

If Obama can snort cocaine and run for the Presidential office, I’m pretty sure my reproductive organs would not be in the right hands if I gave them my vote.

Obama you can’t have my money or my reproductive rights. I say NoDeal!

I asked my eight year old yesterday what she thought we should do about drilling for our own oil. Her answer was simple “I don’t think we should be giving bad men money.”

McCain stands for “Action”! Everyone knows that “Action” speaks louder than just words.

Comment by Ellie | 2008-06-26 12:34:17

Burky does not care about our rights.

Regarding abortion, he said, “I trust women to make a prayerful decision”.

Who in the hell does he think HE is to TRUST women to PRAY?! He says nothing about the principle of women’s reproductive RIGHTS, only HIS trust that we will pray. WTF?!

Burkas for all!

 
 

Comment by craigdp | 2008-06-26 11:24:27

Steve:

An excellent and cogent post. I am very interested how this relates to real learning. My impression of NCLB is that it encourages ‘teaching to the test’ rather than true understanding of the subject matter. Are these results verified by any data representing other perspectives on learning?

 

Comment by db | 2008-06-26 11:25:18

How about giving reparations to all females! How about that? As John Lennon so eloquently put it, “Woman is the nigger of the world!”

The suppression, domination, & slave trades still exist. You don’t have to look far to see the sexism. Look at msn, look at the DNC. Look at the Obamanuts!

Hillary or nothing.
NObama!

PUMA

Comment by Uppity | 2008-06-26 11:47:30

I’m Italian! Barack and his spiritual advisor pre-bottom of the bus say I am a Garlic Nose. Give me a little something! I want you goddamned pie! I don’t care if you worked for it or not!

Comment by P. Hope Rambeau | 2008-06-26 20:22:49

WEll I’m worse off than you and you should pay me reparations because I’m Italian and Jewish so you know what that means! Pay up! :)

Comment by Uppity | 2008-06-26 22:30:56

Geeze, Italian AND Jewish. I cannot trump that! Comrade Obama’s pastor hates you TWICE!

 
 
 

Comment by Uppity | 2008-06-26 11:56:25

Hey we’re lucky we got the vote! That law was passed by ONE vote!

And I have to listen to THIS shit!

Comment by ginaswo still says no Uhhbama | 2008-06-26 13:27:07

yes and the Bolsheviks gave women the vote first and it made us look bad so ya know, they had to do something….

 
 

Comment by sleepy | 2008-06-26 12:28:37

Comment by db | 2008-06-26 11:25:18

How about giving reparations to all females! How about that? As John Lennon so eloquently put it, “Woman is the nigger of the world!”

The suppression, domination, & slave trades still exist. You don’t have to look far to see the sexism. Look at msn, look at the DNC. Look at the Obamanuts!

Hillary or nothing.
NObama!

PUMA

Reparations for all descendents of women as well, in order to keep on an equal footing with reparations for the descendents of slaves.

Since everybody, male or female, has a mother . . . .

 
 

Comment by John | 2008-06-26 11:25:37

According to Wikipedia, Klonsky served on President Bill Clinton’s Advisory Panel on School Violence. A little hint about who has taken over the Democratic party in the last few decades.

 

Comment by roseeriter | 2008-06-26 11:26:41

Seems the Obama crowd wants to totally divide/shred the country, races, sexes and everything else.

Where are the Martians when we need them?….OY!

Comment by jwrjr | 2008-06-26 13:17:38

Klaatu barada nikto?

Comment by ginaswo still says no Uhhbama | 2008-06-26 13:28:45

well we saw what happened to him!!

maybe ‘Ash’ can swoop in and help us out and kick some Leftist but..Savemart style, LOL

 
 
 

Comment by AnninCa | 2008-06-26 11:34:43

While I appreciate your article and the historical context you provide, I must say my bigger concern about Obama is that he will approve vouchers for private schools.

I think he’s very non-progressive, and I recall a statement where he indicated he was open to this.

I’m very opposed.

It’s far more likely that Obama will gut the public schools even more. I certainly do not see money coming to them in an Obama administration.

I’ll be happy if we saw a Federal Student Loan plan again.

I do not fear Obama’s left-wing side. I fear his complete corporate side more.

Comment by Uppity | 2008-06-26 11:46:04

And don’t be surprised if he wants to privatize social security, given his contributory ties to Wall Street.

Comment by AnninCa | 2008-06-26 11:51:01

He indicated just that early on. He backed off when trying to woo FL voters.

I used to do educational materials for 401k programs. It’s not safe to go much further with this strategy. Investing is too complex. Corporations take these loopholes and dump their retirement programs. When they do that, they swipe a large chunk of change, naturally.

He’ll open SS up, and it will be yet another way the money boyz will trick people into bad investments.

The next mortgage lending crisis. And when the bailout comes, it will be yet again for the corporations, not the individuals ripped off.

Yes, I completely see what’s coming.

Not socialism. Not Marxism. More corporatism.

That is also what is absolutely wrong with the economy. The boyz in suits have raked us over.

Comment by tish | 2008-06-26 11:55:30

doesnt bob casey dem from pa, realize that the terriosts hide amongst the women and children that are innocent, what planet is he on? oh yeah lets just go bomb them all mr casey,, i say mr casey and the dems all want us out of iraq , so that the terriost regime can continue there terror on iraq, and iran wants this to..who do you think you are kidding?

 

Comment by Uppity | 2008-06-26 11:57:26

He backed off because he is nothing but a dupicitous pandering vote whore. He has His Plans and they are NOT good.

Comment by P. Hope Rambeau | 2008-06-26 20:24:31

That underhanded piece of rotten seaweed! I’ve seen puss that smells better than he does.

 
 

Comment by Johnny at Work | 2008-06-26 12:01:12

It will be Marxism and Socialism, but like in other Communist and Marxist states, it will only benefit the party elite.

The classes only hear, but never see the benefit of Marxism.

So, you are correct, Increased SS taxes, and privitization will benefit Party Elite, not the classes. School Vouchers will benefit the elite, Mortgage bailouts will benefit the elite.

Comment by ginaswo still says no Uhhbama | 2008-06-26 13:31:14

yep fascisitic capitalism, privatized profits and public losses

like the lovely Credit Suisse housing recsue plan that ‘rescues’ the lenders and sticks we the people with the bill

and Freddie and Fannie will be so ground down with these bad loans they wont be able to lend for a loooong time, keeping the little people where corporations want them, downtrodden and working harder to keep up…..

 
 
 
 

Comment by John | 2008-06-26 12:17:54

Actually there is a legitimate issue with Obama’s corporate connections as well. His economic advisor Jason Furman has called Wal Mart– retailer of cheap goods made in sweatshop countries, Red China, or both– a “progressive success story.” See:

http://www.americanprogress.org/kf/walmart_progressive.pdf