Obama, The Fast Change Bamboozler
By Larry Johnson on July 3, 2008 at 9:21 PM in Barack Obama, Current Affairs, Iraq
It is one thing to tout your slogan, “Change you can believe in.” But what happens when you change so much that no one knows for sure what the hell you believe in? For Christ’s sake Barack, read your own damn policy paper! You ran on the theme that we cannot win a militay victory in Iraq and promised to have all U.S. forces out of Iraq by December 2009. That’s not my interpretation, it is the policy you signed off on. Here’s the link. (http://www.barackobama.com/issues/pdf/IraqFactSheet.pdf) Of course, we’re trying to do a screen shot because we cannot guarantee the page will still be up tomorrow.
Barack promises to have all U.S. troops out in 11 months, not 16 months. Here is what is posted on his site as his policy:
Obama would immediately begin to pull out troops engaged in combat operations at a pace of one or two brigades every month, to be completed by the end of next year. He would call for a new constitutional convention in Iraq, convened with the United Nations, which would not adjourn until Iraq’s leaders reach a new accord on reconciliation. He would use presidential leadership to surge our diplomacy with all of the nations of the region on behalf of a new regional security compact. And he would take immediate steps to confront the humanitarian disaster in Iraq, and to hold accountable any perpetrators of potential war crimes.
Then you go on to state:
AMERICAN MILITARY CANNOT SUSTAIN CURRENT STRATEGY IN IRAQ
“Our troops have performed brilliantly. . . . The excellence of our military is unmatched. But as a result of this war, our forces are under pressure as never before…. our troop presence cannot be sustained without crippling our military’s ability to respond to other contingencies. ”
Military Stretched Thin: The military is being severely strained by repeated and lengthy deployments. 1.4 million servicemen and women have served in Iraq or Afghanistan; more than 420,000 troops have deployed more than once. Army Chief of Staff General George W. Casey Jr. recently warned, “We’re consumed with meeting the current demands and we’re unable to provide ready forces as rapidly as we would like for other contingencies.” According to the Governmental Accountability Office (GAO), 30 percent of the Marines’ equipment and 25 percent of Army vehicles are engaged abroad. In addition, the Army National Guard has just a third of its required equipment on hand today in non-deployed units due to war losses and wear and tear.
A SUBSTANTIAL, IMMEDIATE REDEPLOYMENT OF AMERICAN TROOPS
“There is no military solution in Iraq. The best way to protect our security and to pressure Iraq’s leaders to resolve their civil war is to begin immediately to remove our combat troops. Not in six months or one year–now.”
All Combat Troops Redeployed by 2009: Barack Obama would immediately begin redeploying American troops from Iraq. The withdrawal would be strategic and phased, directed by military commanders on the ground and done in consultation with the Iraqi government. Troops would be removed from secure areas first, with troops remaining longer in more volatile areas. The drawdown would begin immediately with one to two combat brigades redeploying each month and all troops engaged in combat operations out by the end of next year.
Residual Force to Remain: Under the Obama plan, American troops may remain in Iraq or the region. These American troops will protect American diplomatic and military personnel in Iraq, and continue striking at al Qaeda in Iraq. If Iraq makes political progress and their security forces are not sectarian, we would also continue training the Iraqi Security Forces. In the event of an outbreak of genocide, we would reserve the right to intervene, with the international community, if that intervention was needed to provide civilians with a safe-haven.
And now? For starters you have tacked on 5 months to your initial withdrawal timeline. And, after your next trip to Iraq, you will be told by the U.S. military commanders that the surge is working. Truth be told the decline in violence is not a consequence of the “surge.” Instead, U.S. commanders were finally given the authority and the resources to hire Iraqi insurgents and put them to work protecting their communities. In addition, the U.S. dramatically scaled back the number of intrusive operations (a raid on a house in search of an insurgent) and the number of people detained and incarcerated.
But this will not matter. You are committed by your own posted statement to effect an immediate withdrawal of U.S. forces. No matter how much you tap dance, you cannot erase what you have said. You may have impressed folks with your rhythm and dancing skills on the Ellen DeGeneres Show. But watching to dance around the issue of Iraq? You suck.
Sounds like David Bowie had you in mind when he wrote this tune:
This was on CNN tonight. The replacement for Campbell Brown was excellent, and asked if he left wasn’t going to be pissed that suddenly Obama was planning to put MORE troops into Iraq.
The “democrat” who defended Obama said that this “war” is too important to become political, and obama is thinking beyond politics and realizing what needs to be done.
It looks to me like all he is thinking is politics.
Which is the real Obama?
Was he really a Republican pandering to the Left to become our nominee?
Or is he a Democrat just pandering to the right.
Or is he just ambition with no substance.
Whatever, the right wing is too smart to be fooled by this crap. The left seems to have handed their brains to Daily Kos for safekeeping.
Speaking of bamboozling, how do think the change candidate managed to raise more money than anyone else in history? Was it all those starry-eyed college students indentured to their predatory lenders until 2050? The African American community? Friends of Howard Dean and Ted Kennedy? Actually, if you check the records, it’s Goldman Sachs, Morgan Stanley, J.P. Morgan, UBS Securities - all are in the top 15, GS being number one. And they were bankrolling him long before you and I ever heard of this guy. The question is why? (Click on my screen name if the link doesn’t work.)
http://www.thecityedition.com/Pages/Archive/Summer08/BushThirdTerm.html
Raw ambition. Nothing more.
btw Larry
I LOVE that Bowie song! I love MOST of Bowie’s music! Good pick.
If his supporters are now saying it’s not a “political issue” like Michelle, Wright, Ayers, Nafta, etc, then we should certainly expect a summersault on this issue once he gets back from Iraq.
I predict it!
Many years ago George Romney, Mitt’s father, went to Vietnam to check out the war. When he came back he claimed that he had been “Brainwashed” and that ruined his chances in his run for President, it was 1968 I think.
As Obama said to senior Black Caucus congresswomen,
“Get over it”
Those words and attitude applies to everyone.
Get over it, sweeties.
Obama is for CHANGE. Policies, CHANGED. Churches, CHANGED. Principles, CHANGED. Friends, CHANGED. Convention rules, CHANGED.
You need no longer HOPE for CHANGE. Obama is CHANGE, the personification of CHANGE. He is a TIGHTLY WRAPPED MESSAGE OF CHANGE.
An Obama spokesman (Jamaal somebody) on Hannity & Colmes tonight said three times: “This is the General Election and he’s just trying to get elected”
Imagine that; his own people saying that BHO will be a political whore to get elected.
I guess that Reverend Wright was spot-on when he stated that Obama was “doing what he had to to get elected”. Probably the truest words ever spoken.
I’m sure that McCain will use Obama’s own prevarications against him ad infinitum. What a motherload for them.
And methinks that the left wing was way too quick in endorsing their golden boy because it gave him carte blanche to ignore their squeals of protest further on down the road. Serves the boneheads right. Think they should follow their Kos leader now in refusing to pony up for the campaign. Maybe their only smart move.
No different from his stated position on his website, when read in full and entirely sensible to ensure that you give the Generals the Mission end game - withdrawal and leave doing that, within your stated timescale up to them. Would you suggest anything else Mr Johnson?
There is nothing to say. He is not who you thought he was. Now the truth is coming out. We still have time to get Hillary back. Obama is a fake. Come over and find out about the real Barack Obama.
http://larrysinclair0926.wordpress.com/
He is playing ..spin the bottle with policies.
And he’s ALWAYS said that what happens will be dictated by conditions on the ground. That’s a sensible position and one most Americans agree with.
$7/HR KOOLAID TROLL ALERT
AKA the senseless time- & space-wasting jackass LIST
Just hit the FastForward button when you see these names. (Don’t worry, they get paid either way)
believe = FastForward
dose = FastForward
UnderCoverBlackMan = FastForward
Oh, puh-LEEZE!!! Stop it, will ya?!? Barack Obama has been going around the country for over a year now promising “I will end this war!” at every campaign stop. Not only that, but while in the Senate for the past 3 1/2 years he has done everything humanly possible to try and get us to unilaterally withdraw from Iraq as fast as possible, damn the consequences.
So please stop with the bullshit that “He’s always said that what happens will be dictated by conditions on the ground.” HE HAS DONE NO SUCH THING!!!! He’s only showing “flexibility” now because he can’t deny that things have improved drastically in Iraq since he assured us in early 2007, with complete certainly, that the troop surge wouldn’t work.
And guess who was the only one who advocated for the surge and risked his political life on it?
That’s right: John McCain.
How will Obambi face off to that in a debate?
Oh yea, he avoids debates so he doesn’t have to answer those pesky questions.
Flexibility, huh? I think that’s what happens when you have no spine or lack a core set of beliefs. This is same old, same old.
So much for the “new politics.” This is like a bad movie with a very bad actor. Loved the fact that Obama had to call a press conference to explain the previous press conference.
Keep it coming!
Even his devotees are growing restless and all the “spin” is looking lame and ragged. Hummm. Gun control, FISA, NAFTA, public financing, the unpresidential seal [hated to see that one go], Iraq and . . . gee, it’s hard to keep an accurate flip-flop list.
We’ll have a book by the time Denver rolls around.
Incredible!
PUMApac.org
What is scary though is that you don;t get a chance to “unring the bell” when your dealing with foreign policy…, especially loony, radical, foreign policy….
He’s only showing flexibility now because he thinks hes won the nomination and he doesn’t have to worry about that pesky Hillary confusing everybody with the facts….one thing he didn’t count on….PUMAS are lurking….sorry Barry! Denver or bust!
I always Knew that Hillary was more conservative on foreign policy. After all she was a Goldwater Rep first.
It’s too bad that she had to placate the rabid left on the war. In the GE she would have been tough against McCain.
Now the DemRats have a flip flopper with no core convictions who is prepared to throw anyone under the bus at any time if its expedient.
Samantha Powers is a good example
“Now the DemRats have a flip flopper with no core convictions who is prepared to throw anyone under the bus at any time if its expedient.”
TRUE! TRUE! TRUE!
“Now the DemRats have a flip flopper with no core convictions who is prepared to throw anyone under the bus at any time if its expedient.”
TRUE! TRUE! TRUE!
You said a bobo about our savior, you must be racist.
Cui Bono.
Know what that means pal. It means who benefits. One thing that The One has done constistently without fail, and it’s a little strange since he does not generally show up for every vote, is vote for every single bill giving Bush the money to keep our illegal occupation, it’s not a war as Barkey also gets wrong, going.
Now most Americans are aware that if you want to stop something that is going on the one thing you must do is…..
Stop paying for it.
I reckon the genius, 1st in his class and Hahvard (yeah that’s the latest lie), never learned that….
Ya think?
flexibility = change we can believe in!
flexibility = change we can believe in!= no convictions = no balls
You better quit this job and go back to Burger King. Report to the Obama camp and tell them you had failed.
believe you are so full of shit it stinks across the land.
obama has run on ending the war. on bringing troops home starting as soon as he is in office. for christ sake it is STILL on his web site.
what is wrong with you people? how do you function? up is down. day is night. war is peace.
he has not even changed his OWN web site which contradicts what he said today.
he is moving away from HIMSELF. And ditching YOU in the process.
WAKE UP!
No he didn’t
Writing something in all CAPS doesn’t make it true. You can shout all you want, but your candidate’s true character is starting to show. And it’s not pretty.
PUMApac.org
Quote :”And he’s ALWAYS said that what happens will be dictated by conditions on the ground. That’s a sensible position and one most Americans agree with.”
fly’s reply..yeah sure..like Little Lord Bushy said..Saddam and Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11…only the masses of Americans .. heard that..
come on……who in this world is this stupid anymore??…..this guy is playing by the Rove cook book..to the TEE…….
oh yeah ..WE KNOW..the same types that fell for the bush Kool aide..the new and improved version…the OBAMABRATS!! THE NEW LITTLE BROWNSHIRTS IN A NEIGHBORHOOD NEAR YOU .. the ones that still need to be reminded to brush their teeth, make their bed and they sleep till at least 1 or 2 every day..no matter what…OBAMABRATS….do you want them chosing our next president..they probably have no clue what …national security… is..or what map it is on..( wink wink..)
fly
Barack Obama will tell us whatever he thinks we want to hear at any give point in time to generate maximum political benefit for himself. The guy is completely full of shit.
But what about the “whitey” tape, Larry. C’mon dude. You’ve been totally silent on this for weeks now. Either admit that you lied, were duped, or that there’s really something to the rumor that you started.
patience, fool
[tick, tick, tick . . .]
GOD, Please don’t let this be another Viet Nam. We’ve already been there longer than WWII.
big huge sigh
it will be worse. There are 3 fronts. Not enough troops. There will be a draft.
Madame
That’s what the Congressman from NY would like - to re-instate the draft.
I say our only front should be Afghanistan. The rest should come home, recoup, readjust, some will re-enlist (if they’re not pushed to passed the breaking point. (which is coming SOOOOOOON)
jmo
Ummm …. You might want to take some time to get up to speed, sweetheart. We’re back down to pre-surge troop levels and more will be coming home in the coming months. Why? Because both Al-Qaeda in Iraq and the Mahdi Army have had the ever-lovin’ crap kicked out of them. The Iraqi Army gets stronger with each passing month.
In short, we are winning this thing big-time, no thanks to Barack Obama and the rest of the chickenshit Democrats who wanted to tuck tail & run when things got tough.
There will not be a draft.
Dan
Your response about Iraq is right on!!
I wish I had a dime for every time someone has claimed we’re “winning” in Iraq. It always turns out to be a lie. The right wing simply cannot admit they screwed up.
yes someone please explain to me WHAT the fuck we ‘WON’ in Iraq and then also tell me WHY? and at what COST????
Wow a comment I can agree with from you.
I would still like to know what t is we are supposed to be winning and what the end game actually is. Certainly does not seem to be Middle East stability.
They can start by drafting all the kool aid army…. Hey! Thats an idea!!!
Iraq won’t be another Vietnam, Dawnelle.
This time, we win.
we started it
Yeah, and for damn good reasons too. Saddam needed to go. He may not have had WMD programs in place in 2003, but anyone who doesn’t believe that he would have eventually re-started them when the UN had gotten tired of baby-sitting him is living in a fantasy world.
And then we have the hundreds of thousands of his own people that he killed over the course of his three decades in power and the fact that the carnage would have continued for decades to come under his two psychotic sons.
No, as badly as Bush & Rumsfeld & Co. screwed up the post-war occupation, both Iraq and the world are wellrid of Saddam Hussein and his thugs.
BS
if that were all true you all would have GOT THE HELL OUT OF IRAQ after you so “precisely” fished Sadamm out of the rat hole he was hiding in?
That was YEARS AGO
why the hell didn’t you get OUT and claim “WE WON WE WON THIS IS NOT VIET NAM” WAY BACK THEN???
jezzzzzzzzzzzus
you wanted OIL and to OCCUPY
that’s the truth
all the shit about saving the world from Hussein is just fluff and window dressing to me
Dawnelle
You are correct that this is about the oil. It’s also about strategic control of the western civilized worlds resources.
Whoever controls the middle east controls the world.
It is a sad fact of life.
In the end, I would rather the United States and it’s allies control the resources than
Iran,Russia and China.
All the comforts of your life depend on us winning.
It’s all about power and oil and whatever. Let’s all go to Myanmar and free the people from the Junta - not!
Our foreign policy has always been to support stability with friendly countries but Jimmy Carter didn’t want to support the Shah in Iran and he let the Radical Shites take over. This is the type of leadership you would get with Obama, he would have Iran kicking sand in our faces again, I say no thanks.
The overthrow of the Saddam regime through military force was authorized in the Iraqi Freedom Act of 1998 and signed into law by Clinton and vigorously supported by Kerry, Pelosi, Jay Rockefeller and Kennedy. The act refers to his stockpiling of chemical weapons and the development of nuclear weapon capability.
So how many have we killed there? It is of course so much better to have your life and lives destroyed by a Foreign invading power than your own Government.
Our occupation there at least encouraged one form of unity - insurgency. Looks like America is spreading 4th of July fever across the World.
. . . and so fucking what?
The world is NOT, NOT a better place now that Saddam is gone. How in the hell can you say that it is?
Please stop with this bullshit in here already. You seem to be the first and only person since I’ve been coming to Larry’s NQ that has posted this nonsense.
Get real bud.
Maniaco.
I used to think just like you. What I have come to realize is that Iraq is strategic beachhead and buffer against the takeover of the middle east by the Islamic extremists plus resource hungry countries.
As long as we’re there they can’t get a foot hold.
Saddam was the excuse to set up a permanent position to protect the west’s interests.
Moss,
and that makes it right? The people who lost their loved ones to this strategy, probably would rather have their loved ones back. And how about the Iraqis? Don’t they deserve to have their country back - so that it’s livable with electricity, water, infrastructure, education? How about diplomacy? How about the U.N. How about working together? This kind of “Empire Building” is plain crazy.
Just think what gas prices would be if somebody actually tried to get the the worlds second largest oil reserve in Iraq back on line.
it’s happening as we speak, Iraq is putting out offers for competitive bids now, no restrictions on company or nationality.
I wonder if American oil companies will use all the money we are giving them now for gas to undercut the competition and snake the contracts.
I can’t find the article again without more searching, so I can’t give you the link. It described the RFP put out by the Iraqi government setting forth the conditions that any bid must meet. Iraqi is maintaining tight control over the fields and ownership of the oil. All bids must specify that payment for development of the fields is in cash only and not oil. Thus a company that goes in and develops a field still has to bid competitively on the output of that field.
Just think what energy prices would have been like, had the US elected Gore or then Kerry. The US would have been four mayber 8 years on towards cutting down oil consumption and dependence, progress would have been made with the implementation of Kyoto and more work would have been done on alternatives to fossil fuels. Isn’t is great the US elected a party of oil barons.
I’m not saying that it’s right or wrong.
It’s just a sorry fact of life.
Either we control the resources or they do.
As the leader of Western Civilization I guess it’s our turn to hold up the mantel.
Iraq may end up being democratic unlike the stalinist regime that existed.
Life doesn’t make sense sometimes.
I would rather be the killer whale than the seal.
SO MOSS.. how do you think those 100,000 dead Iraqi families andthe families of our dead 4000 soldiers and approx 60,000 wounded soldiers families feel about that strategic beachhead????????
Oh and what gave us the fucking right ..yes the fucking right to take over the middle east from anyone????????
How would you like them to feel the same about the USA and be bombing and destroying your neighborhood..or your family for that matter because someone wanted a strategic beach fucking head?
happy fourth..i hope you choke on your fucking strategic hot fucking dog!
fly
agree! Its a lame excuse and justification for a lame and unecessary attack. We went to war in Iraq cause Bush Cheney et al WANTED to! They weaved a scary story about WMD to garner support and approval. This war is about MONEY OIL and POWER.
Now Iran, Afghanastan… now we canb talk about NEEDING to get tough…
Fly..
I agree with what your saying.
However,I think we are well positioned with our up and coming democratic state of Iraq, our three carrier groups in the Indian ocean plus Israel to prevent Iran from acquiring Nukes and passing them to the terrorists.
I think we are in far greater danger now because of the Iraq war and we need to stay strong or we will get hit hard.
If we leave the area defeated and guilty in the eyes of the world it’s for all time. Then you will be worried about affording a bike let alone a car.
no nuclear power will pass nukes to terrorists.
If you were Iran and your neighbouring Country was invaded by an even bigger stronger enemy than before, would you get nukes?
Also why object to Iran building alternative fuels? There is a very good reason for the Middle East to move to alternative fuel, oil is running out .
I don’t to anyone using alternative fuels.
…don;t object
moss ..bullshit is bullshit..
my co-workers are dead..we invaded afganistan..where al queada was..and is not now..we didn’t finish the job..the job of getting all those that killed our citizens..( although i think some of the guilty are sitting in or near our white house )…facts are facts..the Iraq war was based on lies..nothing but filthy lies and those who wanted to know the truth, before we attacked ,could and did..anyone else is just trying to justify in their own simple minds why we are at war..we are at war for Oil,..we are at war for the greed of some who are close enough to the white house to have filled their god damned pockets, we are at war because little lord pissy pants numbers were tanking and he had to win a second term to finish his part of the god damned deal..he made with the fucking devil..to be president.
We can wash and repeat, wash and repeat.. this over and over as long as Americans want to make excuses for what happened and why..we went to war because the American people were too damn comfortable and didn’t in mass numbers get off of their collective asses and stop this war.
Call it what it is..it is a war based on Power , greed and total unadulterated lies!
-enough of the excuses of what you want to call it..
This war always was and still is and always will be about Oil and H2O ..but now the water is probably not palatible, with chemicals in it, that we put there.
If i could know it was all bullshit as a flight attendant why couldn’t anyone?????????
They could..they didn’t want to know the truth..
It reminds me of the battered women syndrome..the wife finds someone else’s panties..throws them away..she finds sweet notes and bills for hotels and keeps pretending her husband is faithful..
come on..
If any American didn’t know Saddam and Iraq had nothing to do with killing my co-workers..then they didn’t want to know..they wanted to be fooled..
This war is nothing but a fucking lie….and we have committed genocide ,as a country..The USA.. to another sovereign nation..We Have Killed that sovereign nations people..women, Children , grandparents, dads..brothers and sisters..and the sooner we all say that out loud and publically, the sooner we are as a nation and her people to hire responsible people to run her…and care for her and to bring this nation back to her principles and values..values we all pretend we have, but demonstrate little of.
I don’t see that happening anywhere but in PUMA!
Happy Forth everyone here..i hope we can all eventually take this country back from the greedy evil bastards who think they own her and us..
No one owns me..and never will..and i will do all i can to stop this bullshit..so other generations can live like i have most of my life .in a country that stands for good ..not evil, that is really a democratic republic where votes count and are counted, where we can look in the mirror again and AND SAY WITH PRIDE..the words, I AM AMERICAN.
I am sorry to say..for too long..i haven’t felt any of that pride..
Tell me Moss..what have we gained when we have killed over 100,000 Iraqi’s ..and 4,000 of our soldiers..my co-workers can’t come back..but we have killed soooo many more ….so many innocent people..they can’t come back either..WHAT HAVE WE GAINED??..AS A PEOPLE AND A NATION???
..NOT A DAMN THING.. but what we have left in “our path” ..ALOT OF DEAD PEOPLE ..WHO HAVE LEFT THEIR LOVED ONES BEHIND…JUST LIKE THE VICTIMS OF 9/11 LEFT LOVED ONES BEHIND.
MY NEIGHBOR HAS A SIGN ON THEIR FRONT PORCH..IT SAYS..”JEFF’S PLACE”
They lost Jeff on 9/11..and he won’t be home this forth of July either..
and i can tell you..the pain never ever goes away…not for Americans and not for Iraqi families either.
FLY
Fly..
I’m sorry for your loss and pain!
I have a hard time rationalizing this war also, but the reality is that we are there now.
This is not Bush’s war anymore. We as a nation have inherited this mess and must not allow outside forces such as Iran,Russia and China to move in and take advantage of our profound mistakes.
If we appear weak at this crucial moment we certainly will be attacked again.
Have a happy 4th!!
What horseshit, Dan R. There is still the political issue in Iraq that will continue to be unresolved until a strongman emerges to replace Saddam. Until then Iraq will be trashed like it is today. How many dead, one million? You may think this is a big victory, but the world knows otherwise. March bush to court, try him and his piece of shit followers, and hang them.
Maliki was before the UN Security Council in November 2007 for a one year extension on the UN mandate for the presence of coalition troops on Iraqi soil. At that time he said this will be the last time he would need to appear before the Security Council. Taken at his word that means the occupation will end in November 2008.
Meanwhile, the negotiations on the Iraq Security Agreement that will govern foreign troops operating in Iraq after Nov. 2008 is almost finalized. The last major hurdle relating to jurisdiction over foreign troops and their civilian contractors for civil and criminal liability arising from unauthorized acts and for freedom to engage in combat operations have now been finally resolved in favor of the Iraqi government.
Under the security agreement,, he Iraqi government will have supreme command of all military operations inside the country and be able to prosecute foreign troops and contractors who commit criminal acts inside the country. That means full Iraqi sovereignty has been established, just like the security agreements fortroops in other countries, like Japan. The Iraqi foreign minister expects the agreement to be signed in the next two weeks.
Finally, the virulent anti-Bush, anti-American Der Spiegel, just look at some their covers from the last five years here:
http://medienkritik.typepad.com/blog/2008/05/davids-medienkr.html
has this to say about Bagdad today:
the article ends with how Sadr has gone from sectarian warrior to nothing more than a foe of globalization. Read it all here:
http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/0,1518,563471,00.html
As far as over one million killed, the invasion was launched just over 63 months ago. That would be a total death count of 15,873 military and civilian per month, or 520 per day since the initial invasion. Please, inform us of where your statistics come from.
Madeline Albright, Sec. of State under Clinton, was asked about the economic sanctions imposed on Saddam under the oil for food program. She admitted the sanctions were the direct cause of the deaths of hundreds of thousands of children from starvation.
Any way you put it. This is a unjust war. Many of my follow service men and women die that need not be. Bush senior did a great job in the first war.Sadam was ready to carve in, and Bush forced the issue for personal reason as well as to prevent other country from gaining influence. It’s american troops who are getting kill. It did not make us look good to the world.
I also said that we are in it, just or not. Therefor, we have to finish the job, so that all those who die didn’t do so in vain. We also can not afford to allow terrorsit to gain foot hold there, which made easy because of the war. To make sure that the troops won’t be send back against, failure in Iraq is not an option. In that, I believe Maccain is 100 times more qualify than BO.
But don’t try to justify this war with all this crap you put up. It’s wrong, wrong, wrong! Do we do that to all the country that are similar to Iraq? North Korea had Nuclear weapon, communist, tyrant, and kill lots ofit’s own people, why don’t we invade them as well? I don’t buy the BS you put up.
I mean Sadam was ready to carve in before the invasion of GWB.
Finish what job? What is the end game?
There is a good reason we did not invade North Korea and that was because they made clear that they did have WMDs including nuclear and were prepared to use them.
Don’t BS with my piont. I piont out that we don’t go into North Korea, therefor can’t justify going into Iraq. The war was unjust and stupid.
If you pull out too soon, and leave a vacumm of power in Iqraq, then the danger of Iran gainning too much influence and Terrorist taking a foothold is just asking for another War.
Once the Iraq govermnet have control over the security situation, and a Iraqi force that can handle the situation, then we shopuld withdraw. And not a minute sooner.
As I said, I served in the military. Any waist of the life of our service men are unacceptable. If we have to go back another time, a lot more life will be lost.
And there is no we. You are not allow to vote in this country, you don’t serve the interest of this country. Your just blindly supporting a Bush-clone Obama. So save you crap for someone who drunk the Kool-aid.
response to dan ..
Quote:” Iraq won’t be another Vietnam, Dawnelle.
This time, we win.”
fly’s reply..
what exactly did we win?????????
and why did we need to win a damn thing in Iraq???????
..what did we win? 4000+ dead soldiers..100,000 + dead Iraqi’s ..that left family behind ..maybe..that will have very long memories of what the USA did to them…and how…who will now see us as enemy’s..for generations to come..
and left our nation with crumbling streets and bridges and jobless and up to debt to communist countries our kids kids will be paying off..
so just exactly wtf did we win???????????
tell that to the wounded 60,000+ soldiers who fought a needless senseless war, that had nothing to do with our national security..in fact it made us less safe! This was a war of politicsa and greed..nothing more..not a damn thing more..
and for generations…Americans and Iraqi’s will pay for this disgraceful power grab and greed..downright greed…and the powers who want a new world order..and don’t think for a minute Obama is not in that group.
fly
Here’s the Obama strategy.
He figures he can win as a Republican. He looks and sounds better than McCain.
He’s got most of the left in his back pocket because there is simply no one else they can vote for.
Some of the left won’t go along, but tough shit. What can they do now? Vote for Nader?
I see a low turn out election
I see a very high turnout election. National Security will be the number one issue on election day.
20 cyber bucks says you’re wrong
c u back here NOV 5 lol
National security means a McCain victory.
I think the economy will be the main issue.
IMHO peopel care more about their ability to buy food gas home before they whine about war… I think the economy is