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Update: Daily Kos, an Obama Activist, and Forged Birth Certificates

Introduction by TexasDarlin:

In this update to JimJ’s first story, the author concludes that the Certifications of Live Birth published on Obama’s FightTheSmears site and DailyKos are forgeries, and that both images originate from the blogger opendna’s forged template. JimJ’s theory is based on the discovery of a matching anomaly in all three documents.

Birth Certificate posts in the series are listed at the end. In particular, see my recent story, Birth Certificate Mystery Ongoing, in which I explored the issues raised in JimJ’s first post. — TD


By JimJ

How did an Obama Activist and self-identified documents expert for the Department of Homeland Security produce a mostly blank forged Certification of Live Birth of higher quality than a similar image posted at Daily Kos only hours after the alleged Obama Birth Certificate first appeared on June 12?

Why did Daily Kos remove a sub-thread with opendna’s infamous “Aphorgerie” Certification of Live Birth from the June 12 thread where Obama’s first appeared?

First, let’s look at the digital anomaly.

Barack Obama’s alleged Certifications of Live Birth found on Daily Kos and Barack Obama’s Fight the Smears website, and the forged Certification documents posted at Jay Mckinnin/opendna’s photobucket site are all derived from copies of the same image.

There is an anomaly found in images posted at each site that proves this. The identifying mark appears slightly to the left of the state seal at the top of the page at the same level as the S in State. It appears without enhancement as a gray dot that is darker than the surrounding area in the latest version of the Obama Birth Certificate now appearing on Daily Kos. And it appears even more clearly when enhanced:

VIEW the larger image here.

You can test this for yourself. Download a copy of one of the images like the one found at Daily Kos or opendna’s from photobucket:

Kos image

opendna image

Next, use the zoom feature in Photoshop (or your photo editing software) to enlarge the area mentioned above to around 300%, and then the Image>Adjust>Brightness/Contrast feature in Photoshop. Slide the contrast slider to the right to darken the image and the brightness slider slightly to the left and the anomaly becomes clear.

The anomaly is even visible in the extremely low-resolution image found on the Obama Campaign’s Fight the Smears website. It becomes visible there when you use a zoom magnification of 4-600% and adjust the contrast/brightness controls as outlined above, appearing as a square that is darker than the surrounding area.

CLOSE-UP:

WIDE-ANGLE I.D. of WEBSITE:

And for sake of clear documentation, here’s the same anomaly found in Jay Mckinnon/opendna’s images:

VIEW the larger image here.

The anomaly is significant because it amounts to a digital signature that clearly links and identifies the Daily Kos, Fight the Smears, and opendna images as copies of each other.

There is additional evidence linking the images. For example, try resizing the opendna file to the same size as either Daily Kos Certificate. Copy the opendna file, layer it on top of the Daily Kos file, and then reduce the opendna layer opacity by 50%. If you do so, you will find that the images in both layers including text and the many anomalies found in the background, line up perfectly.

There is much more that has been brought out by the many fine researchers who are looking into the obama birth certificate question. And all of the research raises the paramount question:

Who produced the original image of Obama’s Certification of Live Birth?

And this is where Obama activist, self-described former federal officer and documents expert Jay Mckinnon, aka opendna, enters the picture once again. While reexamining the images posted to his photobucket album, I discovered new information within them that raises serious questions concerning the origination of the Certifications of Live Birth and their relationship to Jay Mckinnon/opendna.

As mentioned above, opendna’s files display the same digital signature as the others in question. While re-examining his files, I made the startling discovery that the opendna image files appear to be of higher quality than those found at Daily Kos. I did so by comparing the image files found on both sites.

First, I opened the current version of the Daily Kos Obama Certification that appears when copied as an image size of 2427×2369 pixels. You may download that image here:

Kos Images.

Next I opened opendna’s blank Certification image that is posted with an image size of 800×781 pixels, here:

opendna album.

I next applied the “glowing edges” filters to both images and changed the opendna’s image size to the 2427×2369 pixel size found in the current image found on Daily Kos. I fully expected the opendna image to appear the same or worse than the image found at Daily Kos. Instead, the quality of the opendna Certification of Live Birth is of dramatically superior quality to the ones found at Daily Kos, even when saved at the lowest jpg internet setting.

I also tried expanding the original Daily Kos Birth Certificate that was posted on June 12 to the 2427×2369 image size and saved it as a low internet jpg setting. The results of the comparison were the same as with the current version. In both side-by-side comparisons, the expanded opendna image is of far superior quality to those posted on Daily Kos with many less distortions.

VIEW the larger image here.

That the opendna file is of superior quality to the ones found at Daily Kos and Fight the Smears raises some important issues. The copy found on Smears is of particularly low quality and could not possibly have been used as the source for opendna’s forgeries. Most computer graphics artists are aware of and struggle constantly with the fact that it is virtually impossible to create an image that is superior in quality to the original digital image. You cannot expand a low resolution image and create an increase in quality. Yet somehow, “DHS trained document expert” Jay Mckinnon acquired an image of a Certification of Live Birth that is clearly superior in quality to those found on Daily Kos and Obama’s Campaign website, yet shares an identical digital signature with both. How would that be possible?

Where did it come from? And it is extremely suspicious that Jay Mckinnon/opendna clearly went to great lengths to hide the identity of the source image in his image files. The blogger Polarik, in a comment on my previous No Quarter story revealed this information:

“….I can say, with 100% certainty, is that he (opendna) overwrote most of the JPG headers with a long series of the number “2″ in an obvious effort to hide the source image….”

How did Jay Mckinnon/opendna acquire or produce an image of a Hawaii Certification of Live Birth of higher quality than any of those posted on Daily Kos? How did Jay Mckinnon/opendna produce a high quality forgery of a mostly blank certification of live birth only hours after the item was posted on Daily Kos? Where did these files come from? Who created them? Why is Daily Kos continuing to post opendna’s forged blank birth certificate on their thread?

And, speaking of Daily Kos, why did they pull a sub-thread on the original June 12, 2008 Birth Certificate thread. The sub-thread featured Jay Mckinnon/opendna’s “Haye I.B. Aphorgerie” Birth Certificate and a prolific Daily Kos poster and Diary host named corvo? In the thread, the poster known as corvo makes the statement about forged birth certificates:

“I’m sure that every forgery

includes a note that essentially says “Hey! I’m a forgery!””

by corvo on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 10:00:23 AM PDT

DailyKos Comments.

Jay Mckinnon/opendna responds with a copy of his “Haye I.B. Aphorgerie” Birth Certificate a few hours later :

[TD Note: opendna’s image that appeared in this comment is on his Photobucket page here]

Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 01:27:12 PM PDT

Curiously, 8 minutes later, Jay Mckinnon/opendna supposedly posts a blank birth certificate saying:

“Why don’t you print one up for him? Here’s a blank template”:

[TD Note: opendna’s image that appeared in this comment is on his Photobucket page here]

Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 01:35:46 PM PDT

The “Haye I.B. Aphorgerie” Birth Certificate sub thread subsequently was removed by Daily Kos.

But they failed to remove the evidence from their own archives. See post 555:

Kos Archives.

And, most curiously, they declined to remove opendna’s blank certificate which was posted only a few minutes after “Aphorgerie”.

I wonder what the authorities in Hawaii and/or the federal officials charged with enforcing immigration law would have to say about Daily Kos facilitating Jay Mckinnon’s posting of a blank forged birth certificate on line, free for anyone in the world to copy. Given that Mckinnon claims to be a former federal officer and document expert with the Department of Homeland Security who is presumably conscious of the illegality of forged documents this would seem to be an even more egregious act on his part. Daily Kos should be held accountable for their complete irresponsibility in allowing this to happen. Opendna’s “Aphorgerie” post could not have been removed without their complicity.

Conclusions

So what can we conclude from the foregoing information? I think, quite a lot:

1. The anomaly found on each certification proves that those found on Smears and Kos have the same origin as opendna’s blank and “Aphorgerie” certifications;

2. The resolution of the image found on Fight the Smears is much too low for it to be scrubbed and used as the forged blank template/certification of live birth found on Jay Mckinnon opendna’s photobucket website;

3. The images posted on Daily Kos are of inferior quality to those found on Jay McKinnon/opendna’s photobucket website;

4. It is virtually impossible to create a higher quality image from a lower quality one;

5. It is likewise extremely difficult to scrub text and lettering from a digital image without leaving plenty of evidence behind;

6. It is, thus, extremely unlikely that the Certifications of Live Birth found on Jay McKinnon/opendna’s photobucket website were copied and altered using the documents found on Daily Kos and Fight the Smears;

7. In an extraordinarily suspicious act, Jay Mckinnon/opendna endeavored to conceal the source image information found in his blank certification’s data files;

8. Daily Kos removed a sub-thread from the original Birth Certificate posting that had references to forgery and had an image of opendna’s “Haye IB Aphorgerie” image. They left standing opendna’s blank certification, a template that anyone may copy. Both image files were posted by opendna only a few hours after Daily Kos posted the Birth Certificate story.

9. Jay Mckinnon, who appears on numerous progressive blogs under the screen name “opendna” describes himself as a former federal officer and trained document expert for the Department of Homeland Security (DHS). He also is a Daily Kos Diary host, a Democratic Party activist, and an Obama supporter (see my previous post);

10. Given the above evidence, the most obvious and logical conclusion is that the Birth Certifications found on Daily Kos and Fight the Smears were derived from the Blank Certification of Live Birth found on Jay Mckinnon/Opendna’s photobucket website.

11. Given the importance of the discovery of what appears to be the forged birth certificate of a presumptive presidential candidate, the appropriate authorities should be called upon to investigate Jay Mckinnon, and those involved at Daily Kos, and at the Obama Campaign. Given the abundance of documentation concerning the possibly fraudulent nature of the digital version of his birth verification, the Obama Presidential Campaign should be called upon immediately to produce the paper version of his Hawaii Certification of Live Birth, if in fact, any such document actually exists.


Previous posts in the Birth Certificate series, in reverse chronological order:

Birth Certificate Questions, a Review

The Magic Seal, The Mystery Candidate

*Breaking* Kos Tampering with Obama Birth Certificate?

Birth Certificate Mystery Ongoing

Fight the ‘Smears’: Show the Proof NOW

Daily Kos, an Obama Activist, and Forged Birth Certifications

Hawaiian Official Quoted, Birth Certificate Challenged

Birth Certificate Conundrum for ObamaHonolulu-Seattle, Roundtrip ‘61?Hawaii Vital Records, Question 1

Obama BIRTH MYSTERY, contObama’s Birth Certificate BAMBOOZLE, cont.Obama’s BIG Birth Certificate PROBLEM

Obama Birth Certificate, Fake?

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Comment by Duck | 2008-07-03 17:59:29

Barry’s go some ’splaining to do.

Comment by Mde. X | 2008-07-03 18:38:07

Go here

http://s100.photobucket.com/albums/m35/opendna/

There are two postings of the certificate with the time. Looks at the address of the first one.

http://s100.photobucket.com/albums/m35/opendna/?action=view&current=HI_birthcert_corvo.jpg

Anything familiar? (Look before the .jpg)

Comment by socalannie | 2008-07-03 18:58:24

corvo? wtf?

Comment by Uppity Woman | 2008-07-03 19:05:05

Yeah now there are two certificates at that photobucket. The most recent one is named with “corvo” in it.

Comment by Uppity Woman | 2008-07-03 19:07:45

They are both the same size but the new one has 14 more pixels.

Comment by Teakwood | 2008-07-03 19:33:17

About the size of a dot?

Comment by bemused | 2008-07-03 21:16:17

That’s pretty weird. The picture is like tiles of a certain size. At a given resolution you can’t get more little tiles in one spot to make a dot, so that isn’t it. It means a very, very tiny crop on an edge.

 
 

Comment by Keyser | 2008-07-03 23:30:49

What do you mean “14 more pixels”? They’re both the same dimensions.

 
 
 

Comment by NY still loves Hillary | 2008-07-04 06:32:07

When this whole photobucket thing started, there was a copy of Obama’s birth certificate on the front page as well. Anyone know when/why that disappeared?

 
 
 

Comment by jj | 2008-07-05 17:59:54

So does any of these relate back to the break in at the state department and the pulling of Obama, Clinton and McCains passport back in March / April?

 
 

Comment by secularhumanizinevoluter | 2008-07-03 18:03:03

Would forging this document only be a crime if oBOMBalamadingdong tried to USE it for an official document or is just CREATING it a crime? Has oBOMBalamadingdong ever had to produce(BWAHAHAHA! couldn’t resist!) a birth certificate for any security clearences or job related/bar related circumstances or reasons. If so, is it the same one that the daily scuz forged?

 

Comment by June | 2008-07-03 18:06:19

Wow, good sleuth work. This is the most damaging bit of information I have seen concerning the issue of Obama’s birth certificate. Surely someone from the mainstream media should pick up this story. Or are they all in the tank for Obama? Seems like it.

Comment by Blue Intrigue | 2008-07-04 12:45:33

JimJ is wrong about threads being removed.

http://www.dailykos.com/comments/2008/6/12/11012/6168/384#c384

That’s not great sleuth work at all.

 
 

Comment by WildChild | 2008-07-03 18:08:27

I’d have to take vacation for the entire month of November just to finish laughing my ass off if it was found that BOBO put a forgery of his own COB on his own fight the smears web-site.

Comment by Scully | 2008-07-03 18:18:14

That would be sweet irony.

 
 

Comment by SueB. | 2008-07-03 18:16:39

Why isn’t anyone looking into this??
Obviously there is something questionable going on.
The American people have a right to know if the Dem (so-called) nominee meets the citizenship criteria for the office of President.

Comment by Gamot | 2008-07-03 19:10:47

Can we get the same federal marshalls to detain Obama as fast as they napped Larry Sinclair? Apparently in this era of “hope and change” it’s more important to shut up a nobody than to ascertain undeniable proof of eligibility for the highest office in the land.

THE BURDEN OF PROOF OF ELIGIBILITY FOR THE OFFICE OF PRESIDENT IS ON OBAMA AND MUST BE IMMEDIATE. NO IF’S OR BUT’S. ANYTHING LESS IS A NATIONAL FRAUD.

 
 

Comment by scott in jupiter | 2008-07-03 18:22:41

I figured that Jay Mckinnon/opendna’s image was created from the file on barky or kos’s sight since it would be a piece of cake and take all of 5 min to remove the text from the filled out bogus BC. The only problem is everyone is HI is born on the same day because he missed the date and the island.

 

Comment by campingoutindenver | 2008-07-03 18:22:43

What the heck. MSNBC is doing a special on the LDS. Isn’t it Matthews time? Maybe he quit, couldn’t take the war flop flip. Maybe it’s about to come out that OB’s dad was not Muslim after all, maybe he is a LDS.

 

Comment by candymarl | 2008-07-03 18:22:48

Bottom line: is there an official signature and raised seal? Those are proof of a valid birth certificate. Those are required by both the state and federal government. Am I a document expert? No. But I am speaking from personal experience.

 

Comment by snoopy | 2008-07-03 18:22:59

All Obama has to do is get Ted Kennedy to a make him a new BC, he got Kerry a Honorable Discharge .

Comment by believe | 2008-07-03 18:29:02

So you’re another fake Democrat hanging out here. I’m sure you never supported Clinton.

Comment by campingoutindenver | 2008-07-03 18:36:19

Believe we are all real DEMS here. Just to prove it: When we are all in streets in Denver, can you and I hold hands and come together. I will give you a shoulder to cry. I so need to believe that we can all unite in your misery.

Comment by Vimes | 2008-07-03 18:40:42

camingoutindenver, go to Justsaynodeal. You will be heartened by the support there.

 

Comment by drkate | 2008-07-03 21:09:15

you’re the one who will be crying. We’ll be ROARING….no misery there. We will eat your lunch.

 
 

Comment by Teakwood | 2008-07-03 20:31:55

“fake Democrat”…

Lets examine the use of this term.

The thread is about multiple fake documents being portrayed as authentic replica. At a minimum, an act of fraud has been committed. If this act was undertaken by a “group” of people with the intent to intentionally deceive, that is conspiracy. The illegality of posting a document that can be used to gain entry in to the US, in a post 9/11 world, is a whole other world of hurt legally. Document fraud is covered under the Patriot Act.

In the context of this being about determining if a person is legally entitled to hold the office of POTUS, the seriousness of the offense MAY maybe a treasonable offense, if the individuals involved acted with foreknowledge and intent, to violate the US Constitution.

If am understanding the import of what JimJ is documenting (and TexasDarlin), these came from the same source due to a dot discovered in all three images.

The higher quality forgery has a high probability of either being the different source entirely.

I digress…back to “fake Democrat”.

When Donna B. said “we can win without you”, one would only have to follow this to it’s logical conclusion.

There being no doubt that the document is a fake, that would make Obama a “fake democrat” and until a real BC can be authenticated by a court of jurisdiction and made available to the American people, Barak IS a “fake American”.

JIMJ; Anyone? Do I have that about right?

 
 
 

Comment by Cry Me A River | 2008-07-03 18:24:28

WHAT “appropriate authorities” do you feel this should be referred to? There is NO “campaign police” policing possible forged documents on a campaign website…and even if there were, what law have they broken??? No one has applied for a position using this document as proof of ANYTHING…and no the internet doesn’t count.

Good luck getting ANY FEDERAL agency involved with this. Hawaii? Yeah, right…like they have the manpower or resources to go chasing “internet fraud” 3000 miles from home!

This will ONLY be decided by voters in November who see this as just another example that Obama cannot be trusted.

It may get more sticky for him as the weeks role on, but it will only be at the ballot box that we will see this resolved!

Love the investigation though!

Comment by Mandelay | 2008-07-03 18:46:34

Actually, Hawaii need not get involved with something 3,000 miles away. If the Obama family requested a certified copy of the birth certificate, there will be a record of the request … unless the Hawaiians are as good at record-keeping as Obama was when he was a State Senator. Not a shred of paper remains from those days.

 

Comment by socalannie | 2008-07-03 19:02:32

Wouldn’t this be a federal issue? What about the Justice Dept?

By the way, amazing job, JimJ, TexasDarlin & Polarik! You guys are awesome! Thank you so much for all your hard work!

Comment by Teakwood | 2008-07-03 20:44:41

Second that!

 
 

Comment by cleffnote | 2008-07-03 21:24:24

This needs to be sent to Ickes, he would know who to get it to. He was all about Hillary and he’s the one that got Kennedy to the convention with Carter.

 

Comment by C.S. | 2008-07-03 22:34:09

~”WHAT “appropriate authorities” do you feel this should be referred to?”~

Read your Constitution. It tells you who has responsibility. If more people knew what was in the Constitution we wouldn’t be in this mess now.

 
 

Comment by believe | 2008-07-03 18:24:40

Of course they’re the same. Kos said he got it from the campaign.

And why is a dot suspicious?

Comment by bemused | 2008-07-03 18:34:19

Because it is the same dot all the way. It is made up of the same pattern of pixels. Like a fingerprint, it is part of a unique pattern of pixels overall. That is why superimposing the pictures with exact correspondance is significant to demonstrate that they are basically the same picture. If an artist tried to change things, the filters that brought out this dot would not be fooled.

Comment by believe | 2008-07-03 18:38:28

So? Why would that matter?

Comment by socalannie | 2008-07-03 19:07:01

I do graphics part time & have created many pages that have a tiny dot or some kind of error that I accidentally created & then overlooked & forgot to erase. Later, after printing, I may catch it. Usually, people never notice tiny things like that, but its easy to do.

 
 
 

Comment by TexasDarlin | 2008-07-03 18:48:38

Kos didn’t say that in his diary. In a comment, he said “I asked for it” then refers to himself as a “journalist.”

What was the nature of the transfer? Did Kos have the actual document with the seal, the hard copy? Or was an electronic version sent to him? A fax? Was he sent a photocopy?

Sloppy and suspicious.

 

Comment by Teakwood | 2008-07-03 20:46:27

It would not be if it was a dot on my glasses, but it isn’t, is it?

 
 

Comment by anonymous | 2008-07-03 18:24:56

TD you are great! Perseverance always pays off.

Something smells very fishy with these images and where the heck is the real birth certificate?

OT Larry Sinclair did find an attorney even though it appears his detractors preferred this did not happen. Something smells very fishy about his recent legal troubles and I hope his new attorney gets to the bottom of this if there was any official wrongdoing.

Comment by believe | 2008-07-03 18:27:25

Imagine you have warrants out for your arrest for fraud and you tell the national media where you’ll be — what city, street, building, floor, room — and at what specific time.

Then you get arrested for the fraud warrants.

That would be fishy? No, it epitomizes stupidity.

 

Comment by s. hall | 2008-07-03 18:39:59

anonymous — If the real birth certificate showed that Obama was born outside the USA he would not be eligible to run for President. Too Bad So Sad –

Comment by believe | 2008-07-03 18:54:29

How did he get a passport as a child if there wasn’t a valid birth certificate?

Comment by socalannie | 2008-07-03 19:11:49

Has anyone ever seen his childhood passport? Maybe its from another country. Besides, my Dad’s birth cert got lost (or wasn’t filed properly) when he was born in the 1920’s (Chicago, by the way!). He was able to easily get a US passport in the 1970’s, despite not having a birth cert, because he served in WWII (as a teenager) & was in the service thru Korea. Now that he’s in his 80’s & wants to go on a cruise, the passport office in Los Angeles is giving us a lot of grief over renewing his old passport, becuz Cook Cty lost his birth cert 82 years ago!

Comment by Teakwood | 2008-07-03 20:54:13

I have been asking now since this came up, what passport was used by Obama to enter Jakarta Indonesia?

What documentation was originally presented to acquire the BO BC from the state of Hawaii?

Why is there a BC in Kenya for BO?

What are the laws regarding dual citizenship and the eligibility requirements for the office of POTUS?

 
 

Comment by C.S. | 2008-07-03 22:47:24

Children traveled on their parents’ passports so his being listed on his mother’s passport would give some information about travel with her. I’m not sure of the passport rules for minors in the 60s but I’m sure it could be located. Although it is possible that he could also have been listed on his father’s Kenyan passport or his stepfather’s passport if he was his legal guardian.

With three parents and two grandparents having responsibility for Obama at various times there should be quite a lengthy papertrail to follow. Which makes one wonder why there is not.

 

Comment by sc341 | 2008-07-04 02:54:57

At that time (in the 1960’s) a child could travel on their parent’s passport I believe. (My husband who was born in 1959 traveled to Italy with his parents on his mom’s passport in 1965 or 1966.)

 

Comment by NY still loves Hillary | 2008-07-04 06:42:07

The requirements for obtaining a US Passport and running for President of the US are quite different. I’m sure Arnold Schwartzenegger has a passport, but he is ineligible to be POTUS; that requires more than just US Citizenship. One must be a “natural born” US Citizen.

 
 
 
 

Comment by believe | 2008-07-03 18:25:51

So why doesn’t anyone from the McCain campaign, the Clinton campaign, Rush, the RNC or Fox covering this?

Comment by Francis | 2008-07-03 21:30:18

Because it is a bullshit story you will only see on websites like NQ

Comment by PInk Panther | 2008-07-04 01:34:42

Then why are you so defensive?

 
 
 

Comment by Vimes | 2008-07-03 18:26:14

I have to say that on Cannon Fire they claimed to have debunked the allegations of the faked scanned document because through analysis they perceived a seal proving it was real, but I can say I that have had to travel to Canada where I was to have an embossed birth certificate. I was dismayed, because my original certificate had flattened out too much in my wallet. I spoke with my sister who was a Notary about this and she said “Not a big deal, I can use my notary stamp and they would not know the difference” and lo and behold we did that. Guess what..they saw a raised seal and passed me through.

 

Comment by sonia | 2008-07-03 18:31:25

CNN—DID they remove lou dobbs from his show ..

i have not seen him in 4 days—–

Comment by s. hall | 2008-07-03 18:41:47

sonia — Lou is probably on vacation this week.

 

Comment by NoBama | 2008-07-03 22:55:41

On vacation…

 
 

Comment by fred | 2008-07-03 18:33:46

Obama to Progressives : Screw You, I’m voting for FISA….Suckers

Here’s the note from Barack:

I want to take this opportunity to speak directly to those of you who oppose my decision to support the FISA compromise.

This was not an easy call for me. I know that the FISA bill that passed the House is far from perfect. I wouldn’t have drafted the legislation like this, and it does not resolve all of the concerns that we have about President Bush’s abuse of executive power. It grants retroactive immunity to telecommunications companies that may have violated the law by cooperating with the Bush Administration’s program of warrantless wiretapping. This potentially weakens the deterrent effect of the law and removes an important tool for the American people to demand accountability for past abuses. That’s why I support striking Title II from the bill, and will work with Chris Dodd, Jeff Bingaman and others in an effort to remove this provision in the Senate.
http://countusout.wordpress.com/

Comment by s. hall | 2008-07-03 18:44:01

fred — anyone who votes for Obamalies does so at his or her own peril. He doesn’t give a damn about anyone but himself and he figures if he gets in he can use FISA against anyone who disagrees with him.

Comment by believe | 2008-07-03 18:50:26

No, since FISA limits what the executive branch can do. Under FISA, FISA warrants can only be issued by a special court. The president can’t issue those warrants under that bill.

Comment by Teakwood | 2008-07-03 20:59:50

Where the hell have you been “believe”?

You DO understand what you are saying?
Now, when was the last time Ashcroft had to tell you no?

And they did it anyway?

Are all BO trolls so incredibly unread and dense?

Comment by StrawberrybitesBarky | 2008-07-03 22:52:18

Comment by PInk Panther | 2008-07-04 01:36:10

Obama supporters stand for nothing.

 
 
 
 
 
 

Comment by k in the northwest | 2008-07-03 18:34:09

The way I see it now a BC from Hawaii wont be enough anymore.
I think since Obama has skirted this issue so much; its going to take hospital records of some sort and his mother’s passport. (Remember if it was Canada as some think might be a possibility; the passport wont help out there. Going to Canada back then did not require a passport.)

Comment by s. hall | 2008-07-03 18:45:37

k in the northwest — a couple of weeks ago Republican operatives went to Kenya and Hawaii. It will be interesting to see what they have found about the Obama birth.

Comment by believe | 2008-07-03 18:53:03

Which operatives? How do you (purportedly) know this? Are you a Republican operative?

 
 

Comment by believe | 2008-07-03 18:51:42

Yes, but Obama DID have a passport as a child. He would need it to go to and from Indonesia. So he would need a certified birth certificate to get that passport. Therefore, he had one back then.

Comment by socalannie | 2008-07-03 19:16:29

Not necessarly. My Dad was issued a passport in the 1970’s & he has never had a birth certificate. See my post above if you want more info.

Comment by believe | 2008-07-03 19:53:53

I read your post and you said that your dad was born in the 1920s. Well, a lot of folks then didn’t have birth certificates. But in the time when Obama was born, they were universal. So he would have had to have one and the State Dept would have required one for a passport.

 
 

Comment by NY still loves Hillary | 2008-07-04 06:58:01

You can get a US Passport as a naturalized citizen. Besides, who’s to say he was using an American passport? We grant travel visas to Indonesians and Kenyans. As the perpetrators of the 9/11 attacks proved, you only need to get into this country to stay here. Who would question a child’s citizenship in those days?

The next obvious question is when did he first need to prove it as an adult? Does anyone know if you need a BC to get an Illinois Driver’s License?

 
 
 

Comment by snoopy | 2008-07-03 18:35:05

Comment by believe | 2008-07-03 18:25:51

So why doesn’t anyone from the McCain campaign, the Clinton campaign, Rush, the RNC or Fox covering this?

**********************

Nothing is going to happen until after the DNC convention.

Comment by believe | 2008-07-03 18:41:56

And why would that be? If it turned out, contrary to any logic, that Obama is not eligible to be president, someone else would be the nominee. And when parties replace candidates far into the process, you know, they usually win — as in the deaths of Mel Carnahan and Paul Wellstone producing losses for their opponents.

Comment by thefaxman | 2008-07-03 20:15:26

GOP wants to run against the weaker candidate. They have little to no motivation to go public with this until after he is officially the Democratic nominee.

 

Comment by C.S. | 2008-07-03 23:03:12

Mel Carnahan won after his death and his replacement was his wife. Paul Wellstone’s opponent won; but then the Republican party threw everything at Senator Wellstone because they said he could not be allowed to win.

Obama’s campaign rival is not only alive and well, but she also received the majority of the popular vote so her delegates would simply vote for her if Obama was not qualified to run for office; especially since he was awarded the delegates of other candidates to help him “win”.

 
 
 

Comment by Larse12 | 2008-07-03 18:37:48

You can’t believe a word Obama says. Why doesn’t he just go on Live Television and show us his birth certificate with a Professional there!!

Remember when he threw all his rev’s under the bus and said he didn’t go to Trinity that often to hear what the Rev. said. Go to this article and read Obama’s interview from 2004. Here is the link and then here are a few quotes from Obama!!!
http://falsani.blogspot.com/2008/04/barack-obama-2004-god-factor-interview.html

Quotes:

GG:
Do you still attend Trinity?

OBAMA:
Yep. Every week. 11 oclock service.

Ever been there? Good service.

I actually wrote a book called Dreams from My Father, it’s kind of a meditation on race. There’s a whole chapter on the church in that, and my first visits to Trinity.

GG:
Do you have people in your life that you look to for guidance?

OBAMA:
Well, my pastor is certainly someone who I have an enormous amount of respect for.
I have a number of friends who are ministers. Reverend Meeks is a close friend and colleague of mine in the state Senate. Father Michael Pfleger is a dear friend, and somebody I interact with closely.

 

Comment by Linda | 2008-07-03 18:38:04

Doesn’t Larry still have some pull in the government??? Is there no way he can get this to the attention of the FBI, or someone that can do something, to bring this out into the public before it is too late????

Comment by believe | 2008-07-03 18:39:56

Why would the FBI care that a birth certificate has a DOT? Lots of documents get small stains, etc.

Comment by Linda | 2008-07-03 18:54:44

Your name fits, I “BELIEVE” you are Obot an Idiot!!!! NOT the DOT, the whole fraud, forgery thing, ” BELIEVE ” can you understand that?? Probably not……….

Comment by believe | 2008-07-03 19:50:10

They’re the same item, the same document, so of course the dot is in the same place.

Comment by maniaco | 2008-07-03 20:35:01

exactly. The “same” fake document. You finally get it.

Comment by Teakwood | 2008-07-03 21:05:23

maniaco

You can lead a troll to kool-aid, but only BO can make em’ drink.

Comment by PInk Panther | 2008-07-04 01:38:24

It’s fool-aid.

 
 
 
 
 

Comment by NY still loves Hillary | 2008-07-04 07:10:24

Well, it would depend on what Obama has used that Birth Certificate for. If he submitted it with his paperwork to file for his candidacy (Presidential, Senate, or Illinois Senate), or even for something as benign as a Driver’s license, he is guilty of a felony (forging an official document). If he has just posted it online instead of the actual BC he uses officially, then he owes the American public an explanation as to why he is hiding the real document and trying to pass the forgery off as real.

Possibly also of interest are the requirements for a minor to get a US Passport:

AS DIRECTED BY PUBLIC LAW 106–113 AND 22 CFR 51.28:
To submit an application for a child under age 16 both parents or the child’s legal guardian(s) must appear
and present the following:
• Evidence of the child’s U.S. citizenship,
• Evidence of the child’s relationship to parents/guardian(s), AND
• Parental/guardian identification.
IF ONLY ONE PARENT APPEARS YOU MUST ALSO SUBMIT ONE OF THE FOLLOWING:
• Second parent’s notarized written statement consenting to passport issuance for the child,
• Primary evidence of sole authority to apply, OR
• A written statement (made under penalty of perjury) explaining the second parent’s unavailability.

Seems like an awful lot of documentation to get from a disaffected father in Kenya with other (Kenyan) wives and children to concern him.

 
 
 

Comment by Dan | 2008-07-03 18:40:32

Who will let the authorities know about this forgery? What is he hiding? a different nationality or date of birth? This is opening up alot of unanswered questions.

Comment by believe | 2008-07-03 18:42:57

I think that you should contact as many elected officials and FBI officers as possible.

If you think this is an issue, what are you waiting for?

 
 

Comment by believe | 2008-07-03 18:44:13

Since Obama lived overseas as a child, he would have had to get a passport at that time.

You can’t get a passport without an original birth certificate.

So he must have a perfectly good birth certificate.

Comment by bemused | 2008-07-03 21:18:02

He could have been on his mother’s passport, and he could have gotten there with a good story and a few affidavits.

Comment by StrawberrybitesBarky | 2008-07-03 22:54:49

True, My mother and three of us children shared a passport back in the sevent