Red Dirt Talk - Part 4, the Conclusions
By CRAIG DELLA PENNA on July 6, 2008 at 6:35 PM in Barack Obama, Hillary Clinton, John McCain, Supreme Court
Previously in this series: “Red Dirt Talk - Part 1, the Setup,” Red Dirt Talk - Part 2, the Positions,” and “Red Dirt Talk - Part 3, the Positions (2).”
Choices to Make:
Ok, we’ve set the stage, How does it play out for the presumptive candidates?
Obama
For BHO, this is The Land of Dreams Come True. He can function pretty much as the king he imagines himself to be: commanding by fiat and having his wishes transformed into law. Surrounded by coteries of adoring acolytes and wizened viziers wishpering into his ear.
With the expected congressional gains the Democrats are likely to make and given their propensity to grovel, a rubber stamp congress for BHO is pretty much a done deal. If we had HRC in the executive we might actually see some groundbreaking legislation and the enactment of a number of sorely needed reforms. With BHO in the saddle we’re much more likely to see a repeat of the current farce. Largely this kind of administration is reflective of the nature of the person who is POTUS. We’ve just been through a seven year example of how this can go horribly wrong. BHO’s nature, both the revealed and the still hidden aspects - gives plenty of cause for alarm: narcissistic, solipsistic, arrogant, ignorant and truculent, he is a walking poster for exactly what to avoid when looking to fill an executive position with unlimited power.
McCain
For McCain, the picture is not quite so rosy, in fact, he’s more likely to be a caretaker president, given the majority the Democrats will hold in both houses.
There will be few initiatives from the Executive branch. McCain doesn’t have many new ideas, there may be some movement on campaign spending reform but certainly nothing on healthcare. With a Democratic congress there will not be any Supreme Court nominations even if all the sitting justices tripped on the steps and fell on their heads.
On the other hand, there are some good points to a McCain presidency: first, there would not be an Obama presidency - I can’t stress enough how desirable this is.
Next, he’s not GWB - repeat that please: he’s not GWB. No more idiots in the White House, what a relief. Further, McCain is regarded as an honorable man and we could sure use someone honorable to represent us to the world again. BHO already show deficits in that regard. Last, we survived seven years of GWB, I think we can survive four years of McCain but I really question whether our country can survive a BHO cult takeover.
…And another choice we could make:
I’m going to push the Red Dirt metaphor a little bit here. With PUMA and JustSayNoDeal out there stirring things up, I’m thinking that there may be another way onward. The goal is to get some leverage in the political game they play in Washington. We’ve been a two party system for some time because, among other reasons, the parties field full slates for all offices, including POTUS. Even the smaller parties like the Libertarians and the Conservatives are always running a Ron Paul or Bob Barr. It’s pretty pointless, really, they’re never going to get elected - sure it’s an ego boost to say ‘I ran for POTUS’ but so did Lyndon LaRouche and Harold Stassen (many times each). It also feeds into the myth we have developed that ‘anyone can run for POTUS’, it’s really useful for the two major parties because it bleeds off the anger a lot of people like us feel about having been hosed, yet again, by the party of our choice. We get all fired up and run around pushing our ‘pet rock’ for the highest office in the land… and when the inevitable happens, we turn back into pumpkins serene in the knowledge that we’ve participated in the ‘democratic process’. But we haven’t really accomplished anything (Red Dirt Talk, remember?) and deep down, we know it.
What about focusing on some real power? If the Democrats pick up 15 seats in the House they will have a 248 to 187 advantage over the Republicans, pretty much tromping rights on everything.
What If some interested people were to begin building a political party organization - call it the True Democratic Party, for example, with a clear focus on the 2010 elections. Traditionally the party in power loses some seats in the off-year election, given BHO’s track record to date I would expect serious ‘buyer’s remorse’ if he should get elected, certainly McCain would not be likely to still be a crowd pleaser. Moreover, the seething anger that many of us feel toward the Gang of Four (Pelosi, Dean, Reid and Brazile - with a sly reference to their Maoist forebears) will, no doubt, be exacerbated by the time the 2010 elections roll around. The purpose of the True Democratic Party would be to pick the 50 most vulnerable Congressional districts and work to take at least 36 away from the Democrats. This would bring the Democratic House seat count to 212, that is 1 vote shy of a majority. Even half that many seats would scare the bejeebers out of the Gang of Four and would very likely lead to a significant amount of attention paid to the needs of True Democratic Party members by both major parties. This is called ‘leverage’, it is also what they call the “dish best served cold.”
For myself, I will not ever vote for Obama. When he is installed as the official nominee of the Democratic Party, I will leave the Democratic Party - after 40 years. If necessary, that is if the election looks to be close enough so it might actually matter, I will (figuratively) hold my nose and vote for McCain. I can see that there is a path forward, certainly not one I ever expected to take. I think our democracy needs some critical thinking, some untypical action and, desperately, some different results than we have seen so far.
Repressing competency for magical thinking is a sign of a culture in deep trouble. Reagan and Bush were both that kind of sign, I had hoped the sickness was limited to the Reaganauts and the Bushies but it appears to have spread to the Democratic party as well. This essay is an attempt to deal with the reality of a deeply flawed process and candidate. The issues are of coequal importance with the character of the candidate and integrity of the process; when one is degraded, the other two can determine the balance, when two parts are deficient there is no good solution.
Think, think long and deeply, consider well your options and remember: You get whatever you choose.
__________
Previously in this series: “Red Dirt Talk - Part 1, the Setup,” Red Dirt Talk - Part 2, the Positions,” and “Red Dirt Talk - Part 3, the Positions (2).”
Interesting… could work!
I’m waiting for believe to show up and tells us if Obama is elected daisies will bloom from the desert and the whole world will join hands and sing kumbaya.
I have been here all day. I wanted to see if you can have an honest discussion without my participation. Things got silly in the morning and stayed the same all day.
Any correlation between things being silly all day, and you being here all day, do ya think?
BOBOweenies always did remind me of the hall monitor type.
yup
he/she is paid $7/hr for being here .
you can’t have an honest discussion with our participation.
So the basement is lonely, huh?
Yeah and next you’ll be telling us about the manger and log cabin where Oblahblah spent his formative years. You are such a freak side-show.
This is a job for you believe. Admit it.
So you “believe in Obama.”
Good for you.
The rest of us just check in. But you’re on the clock.
I pity you. A lot of us do not want you in our party.
It has never been your party, Goober. I’ve been a democrat probably longer than you’ve been alive.
Times have changed.
And not for the better, apparently. But you keep on “believing”. And that change you keep alluding to may end up being just the silver being drained from your pocket by a carpet bagger.
Not if the conservative fringe is replaced by the progressive fringe. Then the only thing that will have changed is the name.
Someone should report believe to the “unity pony” brigade. Doesn’t sound like he/she is following the script.
Somebody should report believe to the “unity pony” committee. Doesn’t sound like the script to me.
You progressives are in good company. The first thing the conservatives did back in 1980 was begin purging the republican party of liberals. If BOBO wins his fringe will do the same in the democratic party,.
I’m sensing the “fringe” just woke up.
I’m sensing an eerie lull
that is the calm before the storm.
The people stumping blindly for
B.O. now, are his own prostitutes.
The awaking of the fringe is a dangerous time for any country. Look at the road the conservative fringe took us down. It is with the knowledge of fringe past that we oppose the candidacy put up by fringe present. It is the only winning move we have in this election.
So, perhaps only people recognized as “non-fringe” are the country’s only hope. I don’t subscribe to the McCain “caretaker government” theory. I think he knows he has only 4 years yo make his mark. Would anyone have guessed Nixon in China when he was elected?
a lot of paid obama bloggers –right?
Get a clue. A lot of us don’t want Obama in OUR party.
If he gets in the WH, it’s the end of the United States. He’ll use the FBInitiative to take everyone’s money and give it to black people. Blacks will be able to commit crimes against whites with impugnity. Not a pretty picture.
Huh????? Now, I don’t like Obama either but let’s not go off the deep end.
what are you huhing about….? that could very well happen. read his books ?
Read his books, listen to his friends. Scary.
Get real. Blacks are already under the bus with the rest of us. He’s only in it for himself.
If there was ever a time the seeds could be planted for a third party that could actually be viable, it is now.
o/t
anyone who blogs at taylormarsh
watch out from jestlen –he is a kos lover -obama supporter who is acting as a hill supporter now
here is one of his old comments–in respense to aomeone getting banned from mydd
Dear God (0+ / 0-)
Is it true Markos isn’t donating to Obama’s campaign because of the FISA reversal? Or is this a PR ploy?
No. I think they are stunned.
Praise God.
and justlen @taylor marsh posted this video –making fun of P.U.M.A.
Meet PUMA
Finally, I found a picture of the puma protest today:www.i13.photobucket.com/albums/a274/Degreeless/0001p1bh.gif
justlen 06.27.2008 - 7:06 pm #
I would not be as pessimistic of a McCain presidency. The Dems would have a legislative majority, but maybe not veto proof. This would give them an opportunity to pursue their legislative agenda, after all law comes from Congress not the Executive, on issues such as healthcare. In fact it would be even more disastrous for the Dem Congress to sit and do nothing under a McCain presidency than to work with the minority to enact legislation that would draw enough minority Republicans in Congress to support it, guaranteeing being signed into law at the Executive.
A solid Dem majority on legislative matters really becomes put up or shut up time, this would be true where the parties would be reversed for Congress and the Executive. Clinton’s first term had a Newt Gingrich Republican majority in Congress and some of his best accomplishments on tax and welfare reform came from that term.
I think that McCain would really like to accomplish things as president… if…. And with his record of working with the Dems - lots of things might be accomplished.
Plus, there’d still be Senator Clinton. She gets stuff done. Bipartisan, too! Why can’t we just have the smart person of action in the White House, damn it!
We should also keep in mind that McCain and Hillary are good friends and because of their friendship, she would have greater influence on him than obama. We all know that obama is using her now because he needs her.
With a McCain presidency, we will have the benefit of checks and balances, which the Founders insisted was the only way to protect the best interests of the people. An obama administration would be “open for business”, both figuertively and literally, without the benefit of any checks and balances to protect the people from more abuse by their government.
I think The Independent Party for Constitutional Checks and Balances could work. I say if we are going to leave the Democratic Party, let’s truly leave it.
Interesting!
If there were no WMD in Iraq, where did this stuff come from? Was Hillary right when she signed on to Bush’s war with Iraq? Was Bush right to start it? If true, this originally came across the AP wire, was this enough to justify the war? I don’t have any answers, just questions. I do know that if it’s true, it will mean that Bambi will have to again redefine his non existent vote to not go to war further eroding his judgment.
http://www.americanthinker.com/2008/07/disconfirmations_disconfirmed.html
Interesting!
If there were no WMD in Iraq, where did this stuff come from? Was Hillary right when she signed on to Bush’s war with Iraq? Was Bush right to start it? If true, this originally came across the AP wire, was this enough to justify the war? I don’t have any answers, just questions. I do know that if it’s true, it will mean that Bambi will have to again redefine his non existent vote to not go to war further eroding his judgment.
The Miami Herald has a good article about how some American-Muslim leaders believe Obama’s website (i.e., fightthesmears.com) is sending a negative message about their religion.
Another example of how Obama is a failure at uniting the country.
http://www.miamiherald.com/campaign08/story/595064.html
Something else to consider with a McCain presidency: he has stated many times that he is only running for one term. In practical terms, that means he doesn’t have to please the Republican far right to keep them from bolting in a 2nd term. I would thus expect more bipartisanship from him (which he has already done a lot, by the way). He should be more focused on solving problems than pleasing the base. With a democratic majority, that could be a good thing. Or at the very least, far preferable then the mess Obama would make. If Obama were to somehow get this election, I think he would ruin the party’s chances for decades.
Not only ruin the Party but the country.
Not to mention the world.
I’m still hoping for Hillary as our nominee in August.
Craig:
I have left the party, too, after 32 years. Obama is no democrat and his supporters aren’t either. They are the other side of that dirty penny represented by the Shrub Administration. Arrogance of any kind is no virtue and Oblahblah is full of it, as are his followers. What he offers is more of the same crap–just from the left instead of the right.
PUMA
I’m hoping Obie’s 6 point lead is because McCain hasn’t really started swinging yet. I am very afraid however that the fix is in and the election will be rigged for Obama. Isn’t it great living in a banana republic?
Craig,
I think you have an overly optimistic view of things in November, re the House and Senate pickups.
I view November very darkly.
I’m a 36 year voting Democrat.
I’m a Virginian, and Virginia is allegedly turning blue.
In a pig’s asshole.
The Obamanation’s coattails will in all probability drag down Mark Warner here.
This is going to be a freakin’ disaster for Dems in November.
But yeah, we surely need a third party, and we can build it by 2010.
If we start getting the thing going around November 5.
It isn’t that hard.
Look what Ross Perot did in ‘92.
When I was marching in our parade Friday, this woman (big Obama supporter) marching with me got upset when I mentioned that the U. S. should have other viable political parties. She thought that would be changing the Constitution!!! I explained that the Founding Fathers never wanted political parties in American and they are not written into the Constitution. I don’t think she believed me.
Some Obama supporters are not very smart. It’s the kool-aid. It will take a long period of reprogramming to bring them back.
I’m a Virginian too.
And I can’t disagree with you more on the Warner prediction.
There is no way Gilmore will win.
Warner has not drunk the kool aid and he’s being respectful, at least publicly, to all potential nominees.
His poll numbers are very strong AND he doesn’t need anybody to win. He is running on his own coat tails.
As for the state turning blue, that’s an incredible long shot. Sure D’s have won NoVa but the R’s, if they ever get their shit together, have a strong machine in Virginia.
However, I haven’t been able to guage how strong and viable the machine is with Frederick at the helm. Now there is a wild card.
Purple maybe, but blue - nahhh
Judging from the comments over at HRPuffnStuffPo, the luster is wearing off the silver-hoof-in-mouth one. Hahahaha
“I believe there have been times where I have probably been influenced because the big donor had - buys access to my office, and we know that access is influence. And honestly, that taints us all. It taints me.” McCain.
It taints them all and both parties should be disbanded.
There are a lot of folks in mainstream media that believe that Bill Clinton has that golden political touch. Well, don’t include me in that group. Bill Clinton may have stature with the Congressional Black Caucus members who kissed his ring throughout the democratic primary, but I have my serious doubts to whether Bill Clinton can make much inroads into black voters. Lisa Lerer’s article at Politico.com notes, “Despite his widely panned performance on his wife’s behalf in the Democratic primary campaign, public relations experts say that if he moves quickly, former President Bill Clinton should be able to avoid any lasting damage to his legacy.”
http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/7/6/201334/7602/699/547474
this kind of articles won,t help thier candidate “waffles “but then who wrots this diary is one of those 92%black americans who voted based on color –
The democrats made a mistake, big, huge….the best thing they could do is correct it at the convention….but do I really think they will? Nope, from the beginning these people were hell bent to keep Hillary out…well fine……but I can do this, I will vote McCain and I will vote republican all the way down the ticket….goodbye you sorry bunch that flipped on your constituents and endorsed Obama, and you know who you are. By the way, mine is not the only vote you’re losing.
You are 100% correct. Obama was a mistake from day 1 and to think that he was selected by the DNC makes me sick. I hope Obama and the DNC go down together in November. I will vote for McCain if the Democrats don’e wake up at the convention and put the person in that can lead us to victory in November…..Hillary!!!
OBAMORON said he would take money from NASA and give it to schools. In other words, lets stop science for the sake of education.
Wow. Hey Oblhablah, why don’t you get rid of the one government organization that actually works and also inspires us? That’s the ticket, you blithering idiot.
NASA is at the cutting edge of science, in house as well as funding hundreds of outside projects.
Obama has something against every symbol of pride this country has. (the flag, the national anthem, NASA…) This brings to mind Michelle Obama’s problem with pride.
Let us not allow our passions to distort reality here. NASA has some really serious problems and the claim of state of the art, cutting edge science is a little woozy around the edges. The real response to this Obama ploy is to note that despite all we spend on NASA, compared to the total national expense for education in this country, the NASA budget would not make a lot of difference. The other point to make is that Obama set as Chair of the Board of a Chicago Public Schools Reform Initiative that spent over $100,000,000.00 over 8 years and accomplished no significant difference in the targeted school populations.
When Obama said he would stop NASA programs for five years, as if they can be switched on an off like a lightbulb, that is when I stopped even considering him any further as a viable candidate. That was the BIG deal breaker.
Back in the 1970’s, the two Voyager craft were launched. They are just now starting to return data relating to what phenomenon exist at the very edges of the solar system. There were those alive at the time who worked on Voyager who knew they would never live to see the results of their efforts, but that did not stop their vision of a tomorrow that is our present. Science is long term commitment and requires patience.
This is an honest question to COFER. Were you at one time a BooHoo supporter? I may be confusing you with someone else and I’m really not trying to insult you. Just wondering and if there are any previous Obama supporters here that have now changed their mind.
Are there?
Strange question, but I’ll answer anyway. Never ever have I supported Obama. I like Hillary and my second choice is McCain.
OK, must have gotten you mixed up with someone else. I was all happy thinking wow! we turned someone to the light!
Sorry! Hope I didn’t insult you
I have never been politically active. The prospect of Obama as president horrifying me.
The people around and behind him horrify me.
And the DNC too.
Meaning, let’s giving the money to his anti-American friends who are running schools to create more anti-Americans, and let’s pay reparations to blacks and make whites suffer.
r u high?????????????
The Obamas want to get a dog. Today CNN ran a feature that the American Kennel Club made a lot of breed recommendations for the Obamas because, as reported on the AKC website:
It’s been widely reported that – win or lose – the Obamas have promised their two daughters a dog after the presidential election.
http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/7/6/172716/3405/740/547425
how about helping babymama in picking a pantyjose for her …
MEchelle will love them skating all over the Mohagany floors and sending BO out to pick up his droppings.
Yup, the poor thing will wind up in a shelter the second it takes a whiz on her imported rugs.
How about letting the kids pick the dog out instead of turning it into another political game, for Chrissakes.
Try rescuing a dog.
Hey! Let’s get the Obamas a nice PUMA.
How would BOBO handle a creature that thought for itself?
Sounds like a winner to me!! Go PUMAs
Let us at PUMA PAC train it first!! LOL
Hey Uppity did you see the horrible, Fascist post that someone posted in your name yesterday? Just wondering because I kept a copy of it and sent it on to McCain’s site and a couple of others so it could be used to show what hatemongers they are.
I knew it wasn’t you.
UKforDems has been jacking names.
or a kenyan jackel……dog of the devil.
Try rescuing a dog
I thought that was what the DNC was attempting to in a vain exercise of futility.
You mean house train BO?
Think of all cruel ironies…as Rezko sits in the slammer, his property has gone to the dogs.
[OT: Uppity Woman; I have and will continue to support the local Humane Services and Wildlife Rescue Services.]
That would require heart.
If Obama cannot even make a decision to pick out a damn dog on his own how does he expect to make more important complex decisions?
I’d recommend a HOUND, but they’re disobedient, loud and rather smelly. The Obamas would likely prefer some fancy breed.
Did you all see the CNN video of MO slapping BO around at some soccer game? sooooo funny. Plus we can’t watch TV either, just another no, no, according to the elitist BO, we all should be reading books, and such.
Guess we can’t do anything right, except make sure he doesn’t get to be POTUS.
http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/politics/2008/07/04/trailmix.7.4.cnn
Hey, that’s domestic abuse! Call the cops and take their kids away! Seriously, there have been parents whose kids have been removed for less!
Maybe he’s into the “rough” stuff?
ROFL!
I hope a third major party is organized by 2010 … I can no longer support this Democratic Party after 24 years. It can happen … let’s talk about some REAL CHANGE! Screw the DNC and their appointed nominee. This hypocrite scamming his way to the White House is intolerable.
The Obamas should think about getting a cat instead, maybe a puma or something.
u and liberman a good pare
I think a third party is a great idea and can be done by 2010.
When the SD’s had a chance to go for Hillary , they blew it. Now Obama et al. is assimilating the DNC, I hope the convention costs also.
The SD’s are playing chicken I think…waiting for the first to break and the rest can follow. But they are all chickens so that won’t happen.
I almost want McCain to be in so when the economy tanks they can’t blame it on the dems. I really don’t see Obama handling any crisis well.
well, what in the hell have the dems done since pelosi became speaker of the house….answer, nothing !
you got that right…since the dems got control things did get a lot worse…think about it…
Great idea. A third party has been needed for decades. How about the left get the old dem party, the right gets the old rep. party and all the rest of us, who have some brains, get the new common sense party. We could finally get back to following our Constitution and making America the country it should be–the best one on earth. We are Americans and we can do it.
bambi wants to kill nasa and give”the money to “education”? he really means more gun detectors in the failed inner city schools in chicago that are centers of gang recruitment activity ! and any remaining money left from the looting of our science programs at nasa will shurely go towards “re education camps” for the unbelievers!!!!!! us! stop him now! hilly ‘08 or mcain!
An Obama presidency may well develop in one of two bad ways, maybe somewhere in between. The key premiss (which may end up not holding) is that his subordinates will lack a clear idea of where he stands on the issues, because he lacks clear and consistent stands.
The polar form of the alternative (while in fact there may be gradations) is:
1. Paralysis. When subordinates try to use initiative, they will get dinged or slapped down or thrown under the bus, etc. That will lead to nobody’s sticking their necks out, even if Obama goes about it a “nice” way.
2. Loose cannons. Subordinates don’t have a clear idea of Obama’s viewpoint, but often it doesn’t much matter. If radicals are among his subordinates, then those radicals will have a field day for four or eight years.
Della Penna wrote: “Think, think long and deeply, consider well your options and remember: You get whatever you choose.” Truer words were never written. Few who have been elected to political saviorship fulfilled that promise. To paraphrase Gen. Clarke, running a skillful, no holds barred political campaign does not qualify one to be an effective president.