Who Examines an Application for President?
By TexasDarlin on July 12, 2008 at 5:35 PM in Barack Obama, Citizenship, Dual Citizenship, John McCain, New York Times, Qualifications, birth certificate, eligibility
The esteemed New York Times is once again pushing the story of John McCain’s status as a natural-born citizen, thus fueling questions about his eligibility to be President. The new article quotes some professor in Arizona.
Why has the Times ignored the citizenship questions swirling around Barack Obama?
Such as: Was Obama an Indonesian citizen? If so, doesn’t that disqualify him for the presidency according to the Constitution? And what about Kenyan citizenship? Which hospital was he born in? Why won’t he show a hard copy of his original birth certificate (not just the abbreviated COLB), Etc.
The mainstream media needs to examine these and other questions, or ordinary citizens might have to in court. Because one thing seems for sure: A candidate’s application for the presidency gets very little scrutiny through official channels.
A couple of days ago I requested information about…
1. The requirements for a presidential candidate to show proof of eligibility…what responsibility does a presidential candidate have…to demonstate…his/her credentials for the presidency…
2. …Which governmental or non-govt. body has the responsibility to ensure that candidates meet eligibility requirements?
I’m still sorting through all the responses I received. But one thing is clear: There doesn’t seem to be a formal procedure for verifying the eligibility requirements of a presidential candidate.
At the state level — let’s take Illinois, for example — the State Board of Elections requires a presidential candidate to fill out nominating paperwork, much of which involves financial and other technical details. The candidate must also sign a Statement of Qualification …
that I am legally qualified (including being the holder of any license that may be an eligibility requirement for the office to which I seek the nomination) to hold such office…
At the federal level, presidential candidates file paperwork with the FEC but it’s mostly financial stuff.
Reader Marie reported:
I had called the Fed Election Commission….I finally spoke with one of their lawyers. She said that they typically only deal with campaign finance issues and do not require that the candidate show any documentation re eligibility.
Reader xdemocrat got similar information:
I spoke to Wanda Thomas at the FEC…and asked her what Federal Agency did have oversight of eligibility requirements for Federal candidates. She seemed to think that once a candidate clears the ballot access hurdle in their state of origin, there is no agency with such oversight.
NO OVERSIGHT. Hmmm…I guess they figure that a person is eligible to be president if he/she says so…?
Okay….So, the candidate has an affirmative duty, at least at the state level, to swear that he/she meets the legal requirements of the office.
But if there are questions about a candidate’s eligibility, apparently there is no official oversight. So it’s up to the people, another candidate, a political organization, or some other type of party to make a challenge.
Of course, regular citizens typically don’t have the resources — and in this case, courage (see “hate mail” link at top of my blog) — to challenge a presidential candidate like Barack Obama. That’s why a free and independent media is so important. And that’s why the Times’ biased coverage is so unacceptable.
Perhaps it will take a gutsy conservative commentator and media critic such as Andy Martin to make the case:
I will also be taking legal action to pry open the vault of Obama’s “family secrets.” But it is sufficient for today to raise my questions as a media critic: why is the Times obsessed with stale questions about McCain’s citizenship and eligibility to serve as president, when the Times is ignoring the much more serious questions which are apparent about Obama’s citizenship and eligibility?
~~~
The Times runs a front-page story about McCain’s citizenship, when his family history is clear and open, while ignoring the massively complex and concealed facts about Obama’s bizarre family history and potential questions about his citizenship. Do the liberal media have an agenda? You bet.
Martin promises a series of press conferences next week on the question of Obama’s eligibility. And while he is not my preferred spokesperson, I am relieved to see someone who has done the research take on this critical challenge.
See these previous posts:
McCain Showed His Birth Certificate, an actual piece of paper
In Which Hospital Was Obama Born?
TexasDarlin, all rights reserved.
Please go to the New York Times web site, and respond to the author of the McCain story, asking him to please write the same story on BHO. And while you are at it, have him look at dual citizenship questions, the status of Obama’s mother’s citizenship while in Indonesia, and the facts surrounding his birth.
WILL DO AND TAKE A LOOK AT OUR PUMA POWER!
THE PUMA POWER HAS WON
The one person who claimed that her “Mama Taught Her Not To Cheat and Play By The Rules” thinks she may silence the lambs.
WELL I DON’T THINK SO…
DO ANYTHING MORE TO DAMAGE HILLARY CLINTON AND WE WILL GROW EVEN STRONGER…..
MAKE A HIT ON ONE OF US AND WE WILL GROWL EVEN LOUDER…
READ ALL OF THE STORY NOW AT:
http://hillaryloyalistnowformccain.com/thepumapowerhaswon.aspx
This is a link to a World Net Daily article. Just sayin’
PUMAs need to stay away from rightwing sources if they want to be considered Dems.
As long as Dems continue to act like rightwing thugs we have no media resource that is viable. BO and his minions are worse than Bush and his neo-congregation.
The Messiah is an illegal alien smuggled into this country by his mother who got knocked up by a married Kenyan. His real birth certificate will prove that, which is why his campaign has been bamboozling everyone with fake birth certificates and refusing to display the real thing.
GTH, Joe. We don’t need trolls making wild moronic statements.
Any child born to an American mother is an AMERICAN. Period. Illegal alien my ass.
His eligibility to run as President is what’s at question, but apparently you’re unable to wrap your mind around the simplest fact.
Your Messiah is an illegal alien. It’s you who can’t wrap your miniscule brain around that fact. He is a bastard whose father is an adulterous Kenyan Muslim.
I just emailed the editor asking them the same questions. Maybe they’ll remember why they went into journalism in the first place and do the right thing for once. Maybe.
I’ll bet you did. Your job to sound like a NUTCASE so as to make the editors and journalists dismiss the legitimate questions?
Zee - Don’t you want to know the truth?
Zee, your Messiah is paging you for a little afternoon delight.
We are starting to have a cocktail party shortly after having raised over $10,000 to pay Hillary’s debt over the last 3 days. Come over and join us. Contributions are appreciated.
http://www.riverdaughter.wordpress.com
PUMA$ Who Donate Rock and Rule!
See ya there.
I have said that I have no interest in helping to retire Hillary’s debt. But, there is one thing that will change my mind: If Hillary would pledge to demand a roll call vote at the convention!!
RIGHT ON CAROL!!!
AWESOME HILLRAISERS!!!!!
BOOYAH!!!!!!
HILLYEAH!!!!!
HILLARY WILL BE POTUS
Good job, TD
You’re now on the right track!
The burden of proof of the eligibility for the office of president IS ON OBAMA and the election officials. ANYTHING LESS IS A FRAUD AT NATIONAL SCALE
When you respond to the NY Times you should also forward a copy of you response to the MCCAIN Campaign, maybe then if the MCCAIN campaign responds publically to the NY Times story they will bring up the Obama birth certificate Issue thus finally getting this story the National Media attention it deserves!
Anybody who responds to NY Times should forward all info related to Obamas birth certificate to John McCains Campaign, so that when they respond to the NY Times publically they might shed light on Obamas Big secret!
Send your response to MCCAIN campaign also so that when they respond to the NY Times maybe they will shed some light on Obamas birth certificate issue in the national media!
Go Andy!
How can Panamanian-born McCain be elected president?
I understand John McCain was born in Panama. Doesn’t that make him ineligible to be president? I thought the Constitution said you had to have been born in a state.
A: Though born abroad, he is considered a natural-born U.S. citizen.
John McCain’s father was an admiral in the U.S. Navy who was stationed in Panama in 1936, when McCain was born. This has led to speculation as to whether McCain is a U.S. citizen and whether he can be elected president, a question that was raised during McCain’s run for the Republican nomination in 2000 as well.
Section 1, Article II of the U.S. Constitution states:
Article II: “No Person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President; neither shall any Person be eligible to that Office who shall not have attained to the Age of thirty five Years, and been fourteen Years a Resident within the United States.”
But McCain is a natural-born citizen, even though he was not born within this country’s borders, since his parents were citizens at the time of his birth. As a congressional act stated in 1790:
Congress: “And the children of citizens of the United States, that may be born beyond sea, or out of the limits of the United States, shall be considered as natural born citizens.”
Another congressional act in 1795 issued a similar assurance, though it changed the language from “natural born citizen” to “citizen.”
But the State Department clarifies the issue, saying that the 1790 language is honored under section 301(c) of the Immigration and Nationality Act.
This is not the first time the question has been broached in a presidential election. Fellow Arizonian Barry Goldwater was born in the Arizona territory before it was a state. And Mitt Romney’s father, George, ran for president in 1968, though he was born in Mexico. Like McCain, both were born to U.S. citizens and, therefore, considered to be American citizens.
Military bases abroad are just like our embassies and are considered sacrosant american soil under an american flag. An ambassador serving abroad and procreates a child while in say…New Dehli, that child is not a defacto Indian national. That child is an american. The same is true of soldiers in say..Panama.
Because McCain was born on a military base in a military hospital while the United States occupied that portion of Panama, McCain was born on U. S. soil.
Without this acknowledgment I doubt we would have as many career diplomats and military members as we do. Remember we occupied Germany and Japan for years and families were stationed there for years; their children born on military bases.
However, Barack Obama’s mother does not qualify for this exemption if she was in Kenya or Canada when he was born. Barack Obama would be able to claim his mother’s U. S. citizenship but he would not be native born because his birth place would be a foreign country.
If it took a Congressional ruling, after investigation, to agree that Senator John McCain was native born then it should require a Congressional investigation and new law; perhaps an amendment to the Constitution; to settle this question of whether a child born to a U. S. citizen in a foreign country could become a presidential candidate.
The United States Code, Title 8, Chapter 12 sets forth the conditions under which a person born qualifies as a natural born citizen. See 8 U.S.C. §§1101, 1401 and 1403.
Any issue relating to John McCain’s qualification as a natural born citizen is MOOT.
I find it very curious that Obama’s lacky Clare (I think with my I don’t know what) “scribbled” this piece of legislation “helping out” Mc Cain. Why? It seems so random and hurried. What was the motivation?
http://blog.washingtonpost.com/the-trail/2008/02/29/obama_backs_law_to_ensure_mcca.html
It is because most of our stupid politicians do not know the law. The election of Claire McCaskill was accomplished only with indictments and convictions for voter fraud brought against members of ACORN with which Obama is also intimately associated with.
they’re just doing it to divert attention from Obama
Yes, even factcheck.org has that lame photocopy of BHO’s birth certificate.
Strange. The NY Times is supposed to be in the tank for Obama. By shining the light on this issue using McCain, they are really encouraging the MSM to ask similar questions about Obama.
BINGO!!
……. and that’s what we need to happen.
There’s something chilling about this stonewalling on the part of Obama’s folks. And their typical strategy is when they’re called the carpet, they point their fingers elsewhere: the art of distraction and deflection.
I say chilling because if there’s something here, something that’s being covered up [and granted, it may be nothing at all], there was that passport department breach that never made sense to me. It was flipped off as a mere curious employee. And though the original report said Obama’s file had been breached then suddenly we heard HRC’s and McCain’s files had been opened as well.
What is the delay in simply producing an official document? We had an Obamatron comment yesterday that: Nobody cares. We just want Obama elected.
Well, I’ve got news for the Obama supporters. If it turns out that the baseline nationality requirement has not been met, you’ll hear a howl that goes round the world.
The campaign needs to ante up and produce the required paperwork, or be prepared for the continuing inquiry. It seems to me if there’s nothing to hide, they would just cough it up. But if they think pointing fingers at McCain is going to make the question go away?
Not a chance.
PUMApac.org
Agree. NY Times just did McCain a BIG FAVOR by bringing this issue up
I’m glad you brought up the passport breach, Peggy Sue!
http://youtube.com/watch?v=-_finkUalw0&feature=related
By showing his actual birth certificate, McCain sent a strong message to Obama and a clue to everybody else.
At the time of his choosing, this will become a huge issue.
And the “time of his choosing” will be after Obama is safely nominated in Denver. The credibility issues alone in a party nominating someone who is not eligible to be President under the Constitution will virtually assure that McCain is elected. The Democratic Party will be seen as untrustworthy. What effect this might have on the Senate and House contnests will also be interesting to see.
If we can all email the NY Times and demand they examine Barry’s birth certificate, maybe he can be disqualified before Denver and we can still have Hillary as our nominee.
Hillary 08
PUMA
The HY Times doesn’t want the question raised, or they would’ve already done so. They believe in Obama.
If indeed Obama is proven not eligible after he is nominated, look for a Times editoria saying that we have gone too far down the nominating path to uphold the Constituion, and tu urge that Obama be allowed to stay in the race.
That may happen Retired, but do you think it will fly?
That would be FUBAR. “That’s not the Constitution I knew.”
exactly; even if it is shown beyond a shadow of a doubt that obama is not eligible for the office of president, our present leadership has so little respect for the constitution that that they would just say that it didn’t matter and let the election go ahead.
correct; it’s already embarrassing that we have supposedly nominated this anti-american, pro-islam, half-foreign, dirty-dealing cult leader for president. if it turns out he’s been covering up the fact that he is not even eligible to run for the office, the democratic party will be a national laughingstock.
Just the fact that the DNC did not vet Obama before throwing thier full support behind him proves to me the Reublicans have been right for years, these DNC Party Leaders/Losers cannot be trusted with the national security of this country..I’m speaking of Dean, Pelosi, Kerry, Kennedy, and even Edwards..
PUMA DEMOCRAT..NOBAMA NEVER
It makes you wonder:
If Ann became an Indonesian citizen because that’s what her 2nd husband was, could she have done the same thing with her first husband? Would she have become a Kenyan citizen by the marriage? Is that why her parents were against the marriage at first? She was a pregnant teen in those days…one would think the parents would want the man to marry their pregnant teen daughter. I mean she was barely 18 when she married him. She married a man who she knew was from Africa and was going to go back to Africa. Did she not expect to go back with him? (Like she followed her 2nd husband to Indonesia?)
We don’t know for sure that they ever were married. There has never been any documentation provided about that. (Not that it matters.) But this is another part of the Obama “biography” that we are being asked to take on faith.
Trust, but verify.
All right, I just sent the NY Times an email asking them to scrutinize Barry’s birth certificate and pointing out he may not be a natural born citizen. If all of us email them, surely something would happen. Thank you all.
Look at what Michelle just said at MSNBC:
M. Obama Talks Fatherhood, Women’s Issues
From NBC/NJ’s Carrie Dann
Talking about Barack Obama:
His own mother, she said at the beginning of her remarks, was “very young and very single when she had him.”
http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2008/07/10/1193601.aspx
So she married Barack’s father AFTER she had him? I came from those days of “shotgun weddings” and you married the girl FIRST or she went off and had the baby in a place that wouldn’t embarrass her parents - usually a home for unwed mothers.
It’s quite likely they weren’t married at all. If so, he would have been born using her last name under the rules at the time. When did his name change?
So many questions…
From Wiki
Nevertheless, the couple married on February 2, 1961 in Maui, Hawaii.[6][1]
Barack was born in Hawaii on August 4, 1961. Ann was 18 at the time.
HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM
Ok wait, I just saw this..
In his own Autobiography Obama writes, ‘How and when The marriage occurred remains a bit murky, a bill of particulars that I have never quite had the courage to explore.’ (His father was still married to his first wife Kezia in Kenya at The time.)
Yes, and the last time I looked at the Wiki for history of Massachusetts, it said “William and Mary overthrew James II.” Look for original sources, not secondary ones.
I read this over at TexasDarlin’s site…and there’s more:
one of the posters there discovered that a photo described as a wedding photo of Barack’s mom and dad was really a photo of when Barack Sr. went to Hawaii years later….the one time he visited his son. The question is WHY?
Why did he go to Hawaii? One possible answer: to fix the birth certificate, and give Barack his name.
http://www.theobamafile.com/ObamaFamily.htm
the purported wedding photo, half way down the page
http://terpsboy.com/Articles/Obamafamilyalbum.html
Barack Sr. w/ a poignantly beaming Barack Jr….in the same background, with the same suit as the purported wedding photo
http://youtube.com/watch?v=ULxxBz-PAjg
Such as: Was Obama an Indonesian citizen? If so, doesn’t that disqualify him for the presidency according to the Constitution? And what about Kenyan citizenship?
The Constitution says the President has to be a “natural born” US citizen. If he satisfies the requirements for that (and if he was born in the US, he does), he would be eligible even if he also satisfied the requirements for citizenship in another country, for example due to his parentage.
For the reading impaired, from the NYT article:
“At the time of Mr. McCain’s birth, the relevant law granted citizenship to any child born to an American parent “out of the limits and jurisdiction of the United States.” Professor Chin said the term “limits and jurisdiction” left a crucial gap. The Canal Zone was beyond the limits of the United States but not beyond its jurisdiction, and thus the law did not apply to Mr. McCain.”
Obama’s mother was a US citizen. He could have been born on the moon and he would still be a natural-born US citizen. Give it up.
Not true if one parent is an American citizen while the other isn’t. Once the child comes of age, then he/she has to formally choose his citizenship. Obama must have missed that memo.
The mother, being the only US citizen parent, had to have lived for ten consecutive years in the US, five of which should be after the age of sixteen. She was eighteen when BHO was born. This was the law on the books during 1961 and therefor it is the law that governs.
You’re making things up again.
There was no such law and there could not have been since it would contradict the 14th amendment.
Your knowledge of law could be placed on the back of a matchbook leaving plenty of room for an advertisement or two.
Stop the hate!
Uh? This is a valid question “Donna”.
Where is Barack Obama’s ORIGINAL BIRTH CERTIFICATE?
THE AMERICAN PUBLIC HAS A RIGHT TO SEE IT.
Dear Donna
The reason we are not seeing the original birth certificate is because where it says race his mother wrote …..White and where it said religion she wrote Muslim..That is not hate it is wanting to know the truth ooops bambi supporters are not familiar with that word truth….sorry
Donna, are you really the father of Michelle Obama’s children?
That’s a good comment, Donna B. I only wish you would practice it!
PUMApac.org
See 8 U.S.C. §1101 and 8 U.S.C. §1401, et seq.
There are very specific criteria to qualify as a natural born citizen when only one parent is a national and citizen of the U.S.
Hadley V. Baxendale, Esq
Thanks. What type of law is your balliwick?
believe,
you are one stupid pi-ssant.
Are you one of those Gaza Strip hamas supporters?
you couldn’t think your way out of a wet paper sack.
Go back to your madrassa and try to learn good sense, at least enough to pour the pee out of your boots!
It’s making your brain float!
Here we go again, believe. The 14th is a rule that STATES must follow. That is, a citizen of one state is a citizen in all states.
Citizenship is a FEDERAL rule of law and certain laws have applied during different times for cit and nat.
Go ahead and quote the 14th again. You are wrong in its application.
We have given this poster the law a thousand times and he keeps posting the 14th or that we are making things up. So, go ahead and ignore this one because it will not accept simple facts.
YOU are making stuff up. Like I have said before, try something NEW.
I think that applies if the child was born abroad.
Professor Chin: Are any of your kidn taking a class from this fruitcake? On your nickel?
CHICAGO)(February 8, 2007) Chicago-based Internet journalist, broadcaster and critic Andy Martin will hold a news conference Friday, February 9th at 11:00 A.M. to announce that U. S. Senator Barack Obama is a citizen of Kenya and became a citizen of Kenya under the Independence Constitution of Kenya in 1963. Obama has never renounced his Kenyan citizenship. He is also a U. S. Citizen.
Under the Independence Constitution of Kenya, Obama became a Kenyan citizen on December 12, 1963. He has never renounced his Kenyan citizenship. On his senate web site, Obama tap dances around his own dual nationality when discussing his father. Obama obviously knows, because his father told him, that he also held/holds Kenyan nationality.
http://www.politicalgateway.com/main/columns/read.html?col=731
“Professor Chinn said” is the relevant phrase here. If one counts everything Professor Chinn says as requiring independent verification, then any jugdement made on his proclaimations must be re-examined.
Retired, this goes to your point about “to far down the process”,
The NYT does not wish to persue it, but it is on the table now because they brought up the issue.
BO will have Berine Mac vouch for him for certian now. Just kiddin.
Ted, not unless the mother was a US citizen and resident for 4 yrs. previous to the birth. She was seventeen, a minor. Disqualification!
Sorry, no. This has been debunked 100 times. Her age does not matter. Now if she was not a US citizen and he was born outside the US, that would be a different story. But there is no evidence she ever changed citizenship.
Debunked? Read what I wrote above in reply to you and go for the law books.
You are right, I was wrong. If he was not born in the US, then there could be an issue.
You don’t have to go the law books. Just read the Constitution:
Article II
14th amendment (ratified 1868)
If the courts haven’t ruled on the constitutionality of the current or former law, it is the law. You are such a dingaling.
The Constitution is very clear in this situation.
It is very clear, the President must be both a National and a Citizen, not one or the other.
You didn’t answer correctly, Goober. If the law hasn’t been challenged, it is the law. You are no attorney, that’s for sure.
That is correct, Ferdberfle. A presumption exists that any law passed by Congress is Constitutional.
Since the federal government has EXCLUSIVE jurisdiction over US citizenship, Congress can make any laws that do not conflict with the Constitution. Since the Supreme Court has never found the federal laws about citizenship and naturalization unconstitutional, they are constitutional.
The text is correct- but you have ZERO understanding of the application of the 14th Amendment. No matter how many times you cut and paste, it will not read how you want it to read. As such, law books and the vast body of case law “might” help you understand. However, you have been given the benefit of the doubt several times.
Even so, I thank you, believe, because if it were not for you, Larry would not get as many web hits and we would not have the opportunity to educate.
IRRELEVANT. THE AMERICAN PUBLIC HAS A RIGHT TO SEE THE ORIGINAL BIRTH CERTIFICATE IF WE ASK TO.
WE HAVE THE RIGHT PER THE CONSTITUTION. EXPLANATIONS ARE NOT ENOUGH. SHOW THE ORIGINAL OR SHUT UP.
The law distinguishes between national and naturalized. The Constitutional requirement under Article II requires both conditions, National and Citizen. See United States Code, Title 8, Section 12 defines all these terms and sets for all the criteria to be both a national and a citizen as required under Article !!. One can simultaneously be a national and not a citizen, or a citizen and not a national.
At least the GOP and Dems have a candidate from this planet. The Greens have just nominated Cynthia McKinney, who does not appear to be from this planet. http://www.reuters.com/article/politicsNews/idUSN1147675020080712
Sorry, could not resist that. Here’s an old, but still relevant article on McKinney. http://www.slate.com/?id=2064530
I wish I had a better choice than Nader.
Sorry, but McKinney is black. Under the Obama Post-racial Rules of Political Discourse, any criticism of her is racist, and must be censored.
Retired I snorted on that one.
You have to be kidding, right?
She’s a black WOMAN candidate and Obama has shit on TWO of them so far, supporting the white men they are running against instead. Going out of his way to do so in GA and in TX threatening to strip one of his own delegates from attending the convention if she doesn’t get out of the race and just let the man win (his own favorite tactic from the beginning of his career).
Obama will throw McKinney under the bus with the rest, if she so much as opens her mouth, which we all know she will do.
Then by his own rules, Obama would be a racist. He then may be the most prominent “post-racial racist” of our time. Perhaps he could run on this, it would be an interesting campaign hook.
McKinney is from another planet? Well I’ll be darned, LOL. But hey, she’s got a birth certificate and there’s no question about her eligibility. Besides, she’s ten times more qualified then Obama. If the DNC is stupid enough to nominate Obambi, I’ll probably cast my vote for The Queen of the Unhinged. A title I hope she wears with pride, LOL. I think she’s a fitting candidate for a bitter, typical white person, garlic nosed, old, shrill, dead-ender. The Unity Pony can go hump somebody else’s leg because I’m sure not getting on that bandwagon.
McKinney is well liked in the Jacksonville area, and she has choosen a black rapper to run as veep.
This will drain Obama support!
drip drip drip!
he had to be born in the us. the law requirement then was a US mother and foreign father who were married was that the mother had to live inside the US for 5 years after the age of 14. Barack’s mother was 18 - almost 19 - which means that if he was born outside of the US, his mother couldn’t have fulfilled that 5 year after 14 requirement.