About Those Benchmarks?
By Larry Johnson on July 16, 2008 at 10:47 PM in Current Affairs
There is no denying the violence in Iraq is down compared to a year ago. But this result is not because of the “surge.” We did two things that were not part of the “surge” that made the difference–1) we reduced combat operations in which our troops were entering the homes of Iraqis (this reduced one cause for the attacks against us) and 2) we started paying former insurgents to guard their own tribal territories. While the sectarian civil war has cooled, it continues with an average of 40 plus Iraqis dying every day. Yesterday (Tuesday, July 15) the death toll was 123. If you happened to read the Wall Street Journal today you had this piece of mythology by Kagans:
All of the most important objectives of the surge have been accomplished in Iraq. The sectarian civil war is ended; al Qaeda in Iraq (AQI) has been dealt a devastating blow; and the Sadrist militia and other Iranian-backed militant groups have been disrupted.
Meanwhile, the Iraqi government has accomplished almost all of the legislative benchmarks set by the U.S. Congress and the Bush administration. More important, it is gaining wider legitimacy among the population. The attention of Iraqis across the country is focused on the upcoming provincial elections, which will be a pivotal moment in Iraq’s development.
The press seems pretty content to accept at face value the claim that the benchmarks have been meant. However, the progress on the political front, despite the claim by the Kagans, remains very spotty. Judge for yourselves. Last November most of the benchmarks had not been achieved. Best I can determine, that remains the case. Take a look and judge for your self:
(i) Forming a Constitutional Review Committee and then completing the constitutional review.
The Committee is formed and it is meeting. However, it has made scant progress and a completed review does not appear to be in the offing. There are at least 50 areas in dispute.
(ii) Enacting and implementing legislation on de-Ba’athification reform.
Nope. No happening. Even the White House conceded that, “this is among the most divisive political issues for Iraq, and compromise will be extremely difficult. Given the lack of satisfactory progress, we have not achieved the desired reconciliation effect that meaningful and broadly accepted de-Ba’athification reform might bring about.”
(iii) Enacting and implementing Oil legislation (i.e., share the wealth).
Despite lip service to the idea, the parliament has made no substantive progress on giving the Sunnis a piece of the pie. The only significant actions on the oil front has been the Maliki government’s cancellation of a previous agreement with Lukoil, a Russian firm, to develop the oil in the Quma field in southern Iraq and Iraq’s oil ministry declaration that all crude contracts signed by the Kurdish regional authorities with foreign companies are null and void.
iv) Enacting and implementing legislation on procedures to form semi-autonomous regions.
This is on hold, with no action planned until the fall of 2008. Wonder what else might be happening the fall of 2008? Just asking.
(v) Enacting and implementing legislation establishing an Independent High Electoral Commission, provincial elections law, provincial council authorities, and a date for provincial elections.
The Government of Iraq has not made measurable progress toward establishing a provincial elections law or provincial council authorities.In addition, the date for provincial elections remains up in the air. Bottom line, no progress.
(vi) Enacting and implementing legislation addressing amnesty.
Um, yeah. Right. Pigs will fly first before this happens. No Progress.
(vii) Enacting and implementing legislation establishing a strong militia disarmament program to ensure that such security forces are accountable only to the central government and loyal to the constitution of Iraq.
The United States, not Iraq, is taking on and fighting the militias. Maliki has shown no stomach for taking on the main Shia militia that continue to provide neighborhood security in many sectors.
(viii) Establishing supporting political, media, economic, and services committees in support of the Baghdad Security Plan.
Progress but. A big but. The committees up and operating remain loyal to sectarian interests as opposed to serving a national Iraqi goal. Also, during the last six months, the ethnic cleansing of Baghdad has continued, albeit with a lower body count.
(ix) Providing three trained and ready Iraqi brigades to support Baghdad operations.
The good news on this front also is mixed. Yes, there are more Iraqi troops coming forward, the brigades are workings, and they are helping secure neighborhoods in Baghdad. Unfortunately, this has not motivated the politicians to reach out to their opponents and get the political process on track. Fewer Iraqis dying is a welcome development. But it does not resolved the underlying issue of getting Shias and Sunnis to work together for the benefit of Iraq.
(x) Providing Iraqi commanders with all authorities to execute this plan and to make tactical and operational decisions in consultation with U.S. Commanders without political intervention to include the authority to pursue all extremists including Sunni insurgents and Shiite militias.
This is still a U.S. ballgame. But even our most elite forces–who are pressing the battle against the foreign fighters–concede that they current operating environment will not continue. Right now they can conduct operations at will without having to consult with Iraqis. The folks I have talked to believe that is not likely to continue to be the case by this time next year.
(xi) Ensuring that Iraqi Security Forces are providing even-handed enforcement of the law.
Progress is spotty at best. U.S. forces have achieved some success by ensuring that units that reflect the religious make up of the local community provide the security. In other areas it is U.S. troops who are helping keep rampaging Iraqi forces in line.
(xii) Ensuring that, as Prime Minister Maliki was quoted by President Bush as saying, “the Baghdad Security Plan will not provide a safe haven for any outlaws, regardless of [their] sectarian or political affiliation.”
This objective is being achieved. Break out the champagne.
(xiii) Reducing the level of sectarian violence in Iraq and eliminating militia control of local security.
Ditto. The surge magic is working on this front. But the drop in violence is relative. The civil war continues and the insurgents have shown no sign of burying their weapons and focus on making money and feeding their families.
(xiv) Establishing all of the planned joint security stations in neighborhoods across Baghdad.
Nice thing about these benchmarks. U.S. troops can accomplish tangible goals if given the resources. But achievement on this front does not translate into political progress in Iraq.
(xv) Increasing the number of Iraqi security forces units capable of operating independently.
Yes, there has been clear progress on this front.
(xvi) Ensuring that the rights of minority political parties in the Iraqi legislature are protected.
Nope. Not happening.
(xvii) Allocating and spending $10 billion in Iraqi revenues for reconstruction projects, including delivery of essential services, on an equitable basis.
Money is being spent, that’s for sure. And some limited progress has been made in getting electricity in Baghdad on for 50% of the day. However, cholera is cropped up in some neighborhoods and the delivery of services remains more forte of the militia than the government.
(xviii) Ensuring that Iraq’s political authorities are not undermining or making false accusations against members of the ISF.
There are some Iraqi security forces who are doing good work. Unfortunately their interests do not always coincide with those of the political leaders. Hence the tension. This is a benchmark not likely to be achieved any time soon.
I would appreciate your help in updating the progress on each of these benchmarks. I’ve left my comments from last November. Have at it.


Larry, all I know is that fewer Americans are coming home in body bags. The decrease in deaths came during the same period as the surge. To me the likely conclusion is that the surge worked in terms of the only benchmark I give a damn about.
I was against the surge before I was for it. I have to give McCain and Petreus credit. They proved me wrong.
And, as a follow-up to my previous comment: If Iraq was still the disaster in was 2 and 4 years ago, I would be voting for Obama regardless of what else I thought of him, in order to throw in the towel and get out of Iraq.
We’re still racking up a huge debt and borrowing the money from the Chinese government to pay for it. That scares me. I think those Chinese are going to be a big threat and they are our bankers!
I’m sure Hillary would have good policies for that. Bill was so good for the economy.
They’ll be a bigger threat if Obama is in office. Zbig wants a final showdown with the Shanghai Cooperation Organization, and he will use Pakistan to draw the Chinese into conflict.
I’m not sure who is worse for the China situation. Both Bill and GW allowed the export of technology to China that has modernized the Chinese military. Furthermore, we have industrialized China and de-industrialized with our allies. China is geared towards dual purpose production. We are not geared for rapid increases in war production.
pumastic - this type of discussion kicks the shit out of tossing insults at each other, yes?
I often wondered why China has been so good-natured about covering our debt. It seems like a symbiotic relationship. When Nixon took us off Bretton Woods system, the IMF was born. All currencies began to float, and China was one of the first to follow us. Our current fiat money allows us to enslave nations and wage endless wars. The system we have now is because of our trade agreements with China and other Asian countries. By buying large quantities of US treasury securities with freshly-printed money, they keep their own currency low and keep their own products competitive, importing very little from us. This started in 2001.
I’ve heard, but do not know, that China has assembled the largest fleet of amphibious landing craft, ever. Hmm. I hope it’s false.
They’ve also got half a dozen nuclear subs.
China has been tolerant at least partly because if they were to call in our debts for immediate payment our economy would crash. Through no doing of ours if our economy goes south many of the world economies go with it. If there is one thong that the Chinese need it is customers. So as long as the Chinese profit more from being “helpful” than from taking a hard line, they will be “helpful”. But don’t think that they are doing it as a favor to us.
“thong”? Racy. I meant “thing”.
Let me see that thooooong baby that thong thong thong thong thong
China holds enough dollars to blow our economy out of the water by suddenly dumping them. Remember year or so ago when they were referring to the couple of trillion dollars China holds as their “economic nuclear option”?
And steve’s point about Chinese industrialization and our parallel deindustrialization is also extremely worrisome. And the wholesale export of our critical military technologies…
There’s the tremendous enlargement of China’s blue-water naval capabilities over the last few years. Nobody seemed to be paying attention.
We’ve been sold down the river, I think, and somebody made a lot of money out of the deal. Too bad we never seem to be able to hold anyone accountable. I
t’s like the savings and loan crisis, then the current sub-prime loan crisis. There are people in high places who are directly responsible, but they’ll never be held accountable. They’ll keep their rewards, and we’ll all get stuck with the bill.
It’s more than one person who made money off of this country. I’m not too worried about the China threat. I am upset that we have empowered a country with such a low appreciation of human life (and we’re not ones to talk), and all for the sake of our wielding absolute power. That is changing, but I am not keen on globalization, either. I prefer a natural balance. Who knows how that will be accomplished. I really felt it was important to elect a woman President, though. So many microfinancing initiatives are employed by educating and providing resources for women in small communities. Women are key to running households, families and small businesses. I think the world needs more happy children. (My ambien is kicking in.)
I agree, Hope. Hillary is detail oriented and very cautious. I would feel better all the way around if we could air out the Oval Office for a few years to get rid of some of the testosterone.
I do believe China has been viewed as a threat for a long time. It’s been centuries since they have been agressive with other nations so I’m not sure why that’s true. China could have had something to do with our interest in Vietnam. Our military built the naval base at Cam ron Bay which is on the Sea of China and not too far from the mainland China.
Then after the war, Vietnam leased it to Russia and I don’t know much else about it, but since the US has bases all over the world, it would seem like that kind of idea. Are there any Vietnam vets who have more info?
Detailed oriented and cautious? Those traits didn’t show up in her campaign management.
Funny. George W. Bush ran a good campaign.
btw, what the hell is Obama’s ‘civilian national security force’? This sounds eerily similar to Hitler Youth.
http://worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=69784
Obama’s ‘Big Brother’ vanishes from speech
‘Civilian security force’ excised from ‘call to service’ transcript
Similar, where “similar” = “identical.”
This turkey scares the shit out of me.
It sounds more like the SS. The Hitler Jugend were kindergarteners compared to SS.
SS loyalty was to the Fuhrer and only to him. (No country, constitution or sissy stuff like that.)
If Obama wants that civilian security force to be funded and armed as good as the whole US military, than he has further plans with them beyond Iraq.
does he mean Blackwater? Hillary vowed to end private mercenaries, sounds like Uhhbama plans to expand them.
Obama’s group/corporate backers want to Privatize everything, including military, Social Security; there will be no universal healthcare under Obama with PPP-Public Private Partnerships
Obama is Bush-dark (stonger than lite)
Wake up Americans!
NOBAMA!
I met stronger than lite.
That’s a lie.
Is it nation of Islam?
History parallel number gazillion:
The “civilian” security force for Adolph was called the SS.
… “that child looking up at a helicopter needs us to be: the relentless opponent of terror and tyranny, and the light of hope to the world.”
It makes sense why he courting evangelicals now, doesn’t it? It sounds very much like Dulles liberation ideations. Freedom House and the Reagan Doctrine all over again. Look out if Obama picks Nunn as his VP.
…and that is what I envision of the Obamabots. Scary scenario. Do you think this would fly with the Constitution-loving American people?
It is not unreasonable to see this force as a mobile Marshall Plan. If so, in principle, it is a good strategy for dissolving international sources of enmity. Unfortunately, and as noted by pumastic below, before the kool-aid took hold, America is hurting and needs to tend to itself before it can reach out to others.
In general, current global difficulties are reaching untenability.
steven, i have no problem with a program like Vista or a national Peace Corp, but if he’s talking about arming people here for any purpose, I have a big problem.
Agreed.
Mercs?
Evidently you think it’s a good use of our money.
Personally, I’d rather spend that money at home, on rebuilding our infrastructure, on health care, on education, and on security needs like taking care of our ports and loose nukes.
BTW, I just looked and McCain hasn’t been ahead in the polls, even by one point, since the beginning of May. When might that trend change? After the whitey tape comes out? When do you think that will be?
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2008/president/us/general_election_mccain_vs_obama-225.html
No one knows when or if the Whitey Tape will come out. These things generally happen in October.
Obama’s idea of creating this civilian security force is his most disconcerting statement to date.
He’s trying to be the empty vessel so each voter can imagine what is inside. I hope that someone picks up on this story further. Just imagine a quasi-military state with massive databases of every one of your skill sets, interests, volunteer activities, etc., in the hands of the obamabots or any other centralized database.
Obama’s idea of creating this civilian security force is his most disconcerting statement to date.
Maybe he is going to see if any old school Black Panthers types are available.
a nobel objective. Backtrack doesn’t seem to have any of those ideas. HRC had an extensive plan and also had it paid for. Where are the specifics of his plan for our homeland security?
BTW, polls don’t matter now, as you know.
BTW, the whitey tape will be released once the republicans are sure baracktrack is the nominee, as you well know. AFterall, didn’t you release those obambi talking points, or why’d he release those talking points if the tape didn’t exist?
how do you think that tape will play with the New YOrker cover?
Let’s face it, one of the main reason why things have been manageable in Iraq since the “surge” is because we’ve been paying the insurgents to keep their guns quiet. I believe it was Charles Beard who said that economic motivation is paramount in man.
I think thats our best plan to date for Afghanistan also. We will be needing money.
Shtuey, the Pentagon is not just giving money to the Sunni leadership, they are supplying military equipment to fight Al Qaeda which they will probably use against Shites when we leave the country.
I would just like to make a comment about
(ii) Enacting and implementing legislation on de-Ba’athification reform.
The need for this legislation wouldn’t exist if someone in the Bush Ad. had been blessed with some common sense. Without even the consideration of the whole thing being a fiasco from the beginning, this must have been the most incomprehensible decision Bremmer (Bush et al) made. I expect few people in this country (including myself) paid attention to with everything else happening there at the time. But we are not diplomats or military experts and they should have known.
Which brings me back to Obama and his indecision on Iraq. The prospect of another arrogant and inexperienced president is unacceptable. It is hard to believe people in this country are willing to vote for someone because he is a black man and ignore the red flags popping up on every issue that he has no workable plan for Iraq because he doesn’t know what the hell he is doing.
I’m not going to call Obama and his supporters liberals because I am liberal and I know what it means. I’m not even sure they haven’t changed to word to “progressive” because they know it too. They seem to believe the world is not a dangerous place, but we need someone who recognizes that fact and has the ability to make informed decisions no matter what happens.
Bush and Cheney were too arrogant to allow someone in their inner circle to disagree with them. Instead of welcoming the opportunity to learn from Bill Clinton, Obama is doing exactly what Bush did and he will surround himself with sycophants and his ego will not allow him to learn from an experienced ex-president.
Larry, thanks for confirming what I have suspected for the last few weeks. The surge hasn’t changed anything in a fundamental way.
Oh yeah I forgot this site had good foreign policy pieces… If the whitey tape comes out Larry Johnson will get his credibility back and I can take these articles more seriously.
If the benchmarks are going so well, then let’s stop spending the money, which we’re getting from the Chinese, and come home and take care of our own people.
Why are we building hospitals and schools there when our folks have lots of needs?
Christ, grow up will you? This not a fucking game. People are dying. This is a mess we will be dealing with for a long time to come. We have no idea what seeds we have planted and what or when we will reap what we have sown. If you think for one second we can just pull out, read Ghost Wars or watch Charlie Wilson’s War. I was hoping we would have Hill and Bill back in office to help bring in the diplomatic front. Obama will be eaten alive. He is naive and stupid. McCain…well being ex military, I’m hoping he’ll do what’s best for the guys in uniform and not let them go without food, equipment and parts. What a fucking mess.
John McCain spokesman Tucker Bounds, “I think we can all agree that we need presidential candidates that are serious enough not to play make-believe on the campaign trail.”
Or with the war and everything else for that matter
You nailed it on the head, Strawberry. Worst part is the article clearly says the benchmarks have *not* been met. Name an article in the MSM that even mentions them. It’s a total fucking mess. TWO WARS AT THE SAME TIME. This is serious.
OK, so you are then saying that McCain is wrong when he talks about our success in Iraq, and Obama is right when he talks about lack of success. I’m sure you didn’t mean to say that, but it directly follows from your comments.
Obama is an idiot and I don’t trust him with the lives of our guys in uniform. Arabic in Afghanistan? Bomb Pakistan? Blackwater is OK? He has no idea what to do in the Middle east and is too fucking lazy to educate himself on the matter before he opens his big, fat gob. He’s not even the nominee yet and he’s already causing diplomatic ripples, hell, Germany is already fighting amongst themselves over his visit. He’s an ass.
Obama is the one who said “mission accomplished in Iraq” and send the troops to Afghanistan. McCain holds the opposite opinion, and so far his judgment has been bang on. Don’t tell me what I believe, “Ted.”
Well, Ted. Obama scrubbed his website of his previous statements on the surge. His comments and op-eds have been like listening to the Mad Hatter in Alice in Wonderland. When, with his great experience and knowledge, he changes his mind again it will be hard to pin down because nothing he said made any sense to begin with. Transparency through obfuscation
What is being said is that the tactical change has improved the situation on the ground, more-so than just the increase in numbers. Further, that the situation on the ground has improved does not mean that many of the other benchmarks are being achieved. In other words, the surge worked, but not for the simplistic reason that more troops were added. Further, there is lots left to do.
Because Obama said progress was not possible, he is wrong.
No, he said that the simplistic action of adding troops would not make the situation better.
and of course HRC said the sae thing.
Liar. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kcIeoSHTyCI
Thank you for watching my back, HF.
I am not persuaded that 20,000 additional troops in Iraq is going to solve the sectarian violence there. In fact, I think it will do the reverse: I think it takes pressure off the Iraqis to arrive at the sort of political accommodation that every observer believes is the ultimate solution to the problems we face there. … And the problem is the Iraqis, I think, take that message to mean that, no matter how little they are compromising with each other, Americans are still going to be present. As long as we are not willing to provide any consequences to failure for them to arrive at a political compromise, we’re going to continue to see the sort of sectarian bloodshed that’s been evident over the last several months.
— Barack Obama, January 2007, in response to President Bush’s speech announcing the surge.
200,000 extra troops might help. As for 20,000, the insurgents will say (translated into English) “Look, more targets.”
Yikes. So McCain has been saying we are failing in Iraq and Obama has been claiming success. Wow. I’ve had it completely backwards.
You’re being deliberately obtuse. McCain has said we are winning, but we cannot declare victory yet. Only a few benchmarks have been met. McCain always supported the surge. Obama said the surge wasn’t working. Then he was wrong.
There is a documentary on Charlie Wilson’s war containing interviews with Wilson and revelent people who were actually involved. Great insight into the US involvement in helping the Afgans get rid of the Russians. Good intentions, unintended consequences.
why are we building the biggest embassy in the world if we arent going to be staying there for my lifetime??
I think our footprint needs scaled back around the world. That’s something Clinton could have done. Obama doesn’t know how to do it, and his handlers won’t tell him. McCain doesn’t want to do it, not out of any malicious intent but just ideology.
If it isn’t about Obama — then Obama can’t comprehend it.
Which means Obama can’t comprehend much at all.
too bad that after the hundreds of lies and flip flops (which are lies), Obama will never get any credibility huh!
I have whiplash from all of Obama’s backtracking, side stepping, flip flopping of the past 3 weeks. He changes his positions daily.
At least Bush is consistant in his dementia.
I like that! BO has inconsistent dementia.
Why’d he? Tapes
I`m sure Backtrack will tell us all how the benchmarks are coming along,right after he goes to Iraq and informs them.
I’m sure Pampers will tell us we need a more comfortable bench.
funny!
He’ll have his little Winnie the Poo chair where he can drink from his sippy cup and talk on his little red telephone.
http://www.ohdeedoh.com/ohdeedoh/giveaway/holiday-gift-bag-3-win-the-chatter-telephone-037838
unless Barry lies over there like he does here and causes another war there…….lol
Obama on Blackwater-A glaring hint that he isn’t going to pull out.
AMY GOODMAN: I want to talk about the future of Blackwater and also the bases here in the United States. But first, let me play for you a little exchange I had with Barack Obama, asking him about Blackwater. He had come to Cooper Union a few months ago to talk about the economy, and afterwards in the rope line, I asked him.
AMY GOODMAN: Would you call for a ban on the private military contractors like Blackwater?
SEN. BARACK OBAMA: I’ve actually—I’m the one who sponsored the bill that called for the investigation of Blackwater in [inaudible], so—
AMY GOODMAN: But would you support the Sanders one now?
SEN. BARACK OBAMA: Here’s the problem: we have 140,000 private contractors right there, so unless we want to replace all of or a big chunk of those with US troops, we can’t draw down the contractors faster than we can draw down our troops. So what I want to do is draw—I want them out in the same way that we make sure that we draw out our own combat troops. Alright? I mean, I—
AMY GOODMAN: Not a ban?
SEN. BARACK OBAMA: Well, I don’t want to replace those contractors with more US troops, because we don’t have them, alright? But this was a speech about the economy.
AMY GOODMAN: The war is costing $3 trillion, according to Stiglitz.
SEN. BARACK OBAMA: That’s what—I know, which I made a speech about last week. Thank you.
AMY GOODMAN: That was Barack Obama.
JEREMY SCAHILL: This is interesting. I mean, this is one of the more interesting exchanges I’ve seen with a presidential candidate on this issue. I mean, it almost never gets raised at all.
Barack Obama—this is the reality about this. Barack Obama understands this issue extremely well. His staff has been on top of this for quite some time. He—what he said to you is true. He did introduce the legislation in the Senate that has become the Democrats’ official legislation on these private security companies, and he did it eight months before Nisour Square. So, clearly, Barack Obama is someone who has been following this very closely. He understands it very intimately.
What’s interesting—and you raised this with him—is that he won’t take the step toward actually trying to ban these companies. Representative Jan Schakowsky and Senator Bernie Sanders have put forward legislation called the Stop Outsourcing Security Act in the Congress, and Barack Obama has said he’s not going to come onboard and support that legislation.
Interestingly, when I reported in The Nation that Obama would not support that legislation, which seeks to ban the use of these companies in US war zones, Hillary Clinton, five days before the Texas and Ohio primaries, the day my piece comes out, she responds by putting a statement on her website saying that she’s going to endorse Bernie Sanders’ legislation, and she becomes the single most important US political figure to come out for a ban. Now, I’m glad that Hillary Clinton did that, and I look forward to her making this one of her top legislative priorities after the primary season is over.
But on Barack Obama, he’s in a very complicated situation, because his Iraq plan actually is not a plan to end the occupation of Iraq. It’s to continue it with a different label attached to it. And so, you hear him there talking about how “I don’t want to replace contractors with US troops.” The reality is, and Barack Obama knows this very well, his Iraq plan could not be implemented if he was against the use of Blackwater or other private security forces. And the reality is, he’s probably going to have to use these companies for two to three years at a minimum, unless he makes it an aggressive point of trying to shut them down. He might even have to use Blackwater for the first year of his administration.
http://anarchism.tribe.net/thread/79831fda-8793-4d33-b927-699b940fa4ed
Blackwater are a bunch of assholes. They create a lot of problems that the military has to clean up. And they’re rude and arrogant…no wonder Barky likes them.
They also have the largest stockpile of military grade weaponry in the US..in the metric ton range. and Obama wants to use Mercs, so we can fight them here instead of over there.
Since Blackwater opened a “facility” in down state Illinois 8 months before Allsamre was busted out of the Green Zone by Blackwater. BO is holding Blackwaters bag.
Go luck Oborgs.
Blackwater, Exelon, Rezko, Daley, all in your back yard, front yard, present and past, that’s some great judgment there. Items about keeping your house in order, on order, and all that.
Mr. Murder, Now if they could only mow my lawn I might not care…..
Other than the title, which is an absurd non sequitur given the context of the piece, this is a good article. Shows Obama understands that we can’t just eliminate the contractors any more than we can just yank all the troops out at once. They will have to be phased out just like the combat troops. Makes total sense to me.
In the long run, let’s hope we never get into another situation where we need to use the services of companies like Blackwater as extensively as we have in Iraq. Basically they are an “off the books” military force. Ideally, we will never use them at all in the future. (I’m talking about for combat and near-combat situations.) Take the money and put it into our military. Hire more soldiers and Marines, and/or increase the pay of the existing force.
And stop invading sovereign countries.
No, they should have their contract torn up. You have no idea what you are talking about. Get your ass over to Iraq. Blackwater has caused a lot of problems. Can you say Fallujah?(SP?) Jackass.
Yes, and I can spell it too. You missed the point of my comment. Obviously Blackwater has caused problems, and we shold never have gotten into a positino where we use them the way we do. But now that we are, we can’t just pull them out. It would put too many others in mmediate danger. As I said, it’s just like pulling out the combat troops.
(and pease don’t tell me you have been to Ira so you know better than I what the situation is)
Douche, Iraq wants private contractors out, period. You’re supposed to be well read? Ass. And yes, I have a different perspective than you. My husband spent the last three and a half years there. I got first hand accounts on a daily basis. I lived and breathed Iraq, I read and studied the middle east for years, I even took classes at Saint Martin’s on middle eastern history and international studies, read books and even got Al Jazeera on Dishnetwork. Larry has been a life saver for me, he kept me sane. I’m guessing, I’ve at least got close to a BA on Iraq minus the paperwork. Hell, some of my profs would ask me for the latest news from the front. So you can just bite me.
OK, so you are saying we should pull out the 25,000+ private contractors who are protecting diplomats, construction workers, etc overnight. Who will take their place? Or are you saying just leave the others unprotected?
They need to be removed, yes. But it has to be done in a responsible way. And if we had never invaded in the first place, we wouldn’t have this problem.
Protecting diplomats? Omg. You’re kidding right? You think that’s all they do? Oh gawd. Do you know why Fallujah was leveled? Do you have any fucking idea how many different security firms are currently in Iraq? Dude, please, your ignorance is showing on this one. You tube has some great footage regarding Blackwater, take a peek before you defend Blackwater again. Even among security firms, Blackwater has a terrible reputation for hiring losers and criminals. The SF community has a lot of issues with Blackwater and the Bushbot owner.
Eric Prince the Calvinist.
Ted you have not read anything about Blackwater and it shows.
25,000? Guess how many jelly beans are in the jar ok?
Teak, there’s a kid from Seattle (working for Blackwater) accused of murdering an Iraqi gaurd and Iraq wanted to hold him for trial, but since he’s a private contractor the military had no jurisdiction over him and had to send him back to the states…the last I heard he was back at work for Blackwater in Kuwait or Qater. Blackwater hires people who can’t get jobs as security gaurds here in the US. Shocking. Hubby had a few run ins with the wankers over there. Rude, pushy, arrogant because they knew they didn’t have to answer to anybody.
StrawberrybitesBarky,
There so much shit under the radar with several hundred of thousand “contractors in Iraq, and “we” will never know the half of it!
Frakkin Apocalypse Now Redux.
Didn’t have to answer to anybody being the whole, bloody point. My husband was given the “opportunity” to apply for one of the contractor jobs, but turned it down. The pay is six figures for most contractors. Look up military pay…it’s on the internet, and is public record.