Post-Debate Thread 3
By Matthew Weaver on October 3, 2008 at 12:30 AM in Debates, Joe Biden, Media Handling of Story, Sarah Palin
SusanUnPC here: I can’t resist adding what Dick Morris, ordinarily NOT one of my favorite people in the world, said about Sarah Palin’s performance — he got it right:
This was an unbelievable win. In fact, I think it unveils a level of skill in communication that I really have not seen since Ronald Reagan.
She is a superstar. Her ability to bypass the conventional wisdom of Washington, her ability to speak a tone, a genre, a style that was so authentic and so outside of the mainstream was just unbelievable. And Biden looked like he was on downers. I mean, every time he was talking, I kept wishing that I could hear Palin instead.
Original:
Game Changer? Maybe. Maybe not. Depends on what is next.
How about the media? Everything they’ve told us about Governor Palin over the past month has been shown to be wrong. She spoke at the debate tonight to the American people. What are the media to do?
Who did you watch before the debate and, now, after the debate? How are their discussions matching your own impressions of the debate?
I agree with Noonan. Palin has a real gift for speaking. This is the kind of talk people can relate to.
Did you watch and of the follow-up discussions, which channels, and what did you think about their coverage?
PBS: Her words weren’t what you are used to from a candidate, but the public may like it (elitist drivel)
NBC: Williams and Brokaw: She rocked
ABC: She did very well, but gave the wrong name of the US general for Afghanistan.
Everybody had kind words for her, even the elitists who want to be snobs. They know people will like this, and they can’t be on the wrong side of that opinion.
CBS and CNN supposedly have polls showing people felt Biden won debate. Luntz’ FOX poll has overwhelming Palin victory.
My immediate reaction to the debate I just put on YouTube:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BARSS6omLLo
Nice video. Thank you.
Thanks, Pink Panther, and everyone else, for your kind words.
Here is a link to ‘digg’ the video, and help make sure it spreads all around the internet. Please go and ‘Digg’ this video to help us fight against the lies of the mainstream media:
http://www.digg.com/political_opinion/Sarah_Palin_wins_Vice_Presidential_debate_with_Joe_Biden
Please also favorite and pass the video along to your friends. We have to fight back against the Chuck Todds of the world and their garbage spin.
Thanks so much for all you do, Paul. The link to the debate here is much appreciated since I was so fatigued by watching my IRA dwindle to 2/3 of its value that I went to bed early sucking my thumb in numbness!
Beebop. LesleeE — thanks so much. Glad the link to the full debate helped, Beebop.
New Sarah Palin TV ad from Our Country Deserves Better Political Action Committee:
Sarah’s a Fighter
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4feFEdctTF4
Great follow-up, Paul. The ads always give me a thrill. All these years we never asked any questions about why a guy … why all of a sudden is this the issue?
Has anyone heard about Free Press?
Check this site out. It has a “Rate the Debates” feature and posts the findings. Anyone can sign up…
They are supposed to be nonpartisan. With the terrible media bias, it could be a good place to get our voices heard.
http://www.freepress.net/debates
The best comment I heard about the market was that they had two positions in this market…..CASH and Fetal!
Terrific Paul, as always. Thank you.
Thanks Paul! That was great!
she didnt give the wrong name she said Gen. McKiernan.
the commander of NATO’s International Security Assistance Force Gen. David D. McKiernan said that there were principles of the surge strategy, including working with tribes, that could be applied in Afghanistan.
McCain really said he would not meet with Spain’s leader? That’s a NATO member?
Did the secret service have to screen circus clowns to roll out of a car that drives to his campaign podium when he says it?
this new guy in spain hates us
That is not at all true, Zapatero is an excellent leader and has a lot of integrity, poise and is a very respectful person. He did pull the troops from Iraq, just as he promised during the campaign.
The Spanish people DO NOT like Bush, though.
BS, Zapatero hates the US…he has no respect for our soldiers or our flag…just for starters.
Early in office he made trips to Venezuela, the bastard single-handedly legitimized Chavez.
I love Zapatero. He really showed Bush as the fool he is. The people of Spain are great and they love him.
Well if you started an illegal war and they sent troops, and you totally turned everything five directions toward bumfucked, and train bombings were done after that and were credited to your participation, would you be extremely happy?
Maybe he’s not mad, he’s really Gladio to meet us.
mr murder…
Gov Palin was all over the bobo’s bullpucky last night.
watch the polls.
McCain/Palin….the next surge to victory.
deal with it.
Thanks very much for this, Lombardi. I heard Stephonopolous spouting this line.
Brand new McCain ad capitalizing on the debate. It hits Biden solidly. It’s called ‘Lies and Sighs:’
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NOQgEHPHo8A
Super ad … using nothing but his “record.”
Good job, Paul.
Great video. Thanks!
Palin was brilliant! She does much better when half of what she says does not end up on the cutting floor as it did in the Gibson and Couric interviews. The big losers following this debate were Couric and Gibson. Boy, are they exposed. I hope she and McCain win. If not, maybe CBS would like to have a real star sitting in the evening news chair!
Yes, but all the commentators on PBS, even the Democrats, said she did a great job and her performance was a winner.
Thanks Paul Villarreal - I’m glad someone watched the same debate that I did. After reading some of the polls (msnbc,cnn and cbs for starters) I was beginning to wonder if the voting was about the same debate that I watched. I agree with everything you said and appreciate your video. I want everyone to see it. Dick Morris also gave a glowing report, I’m sure you know. This lady has class with a capital C. She is one of us - REAL and authentic.
CNN was really dissapointing. They always have to put a condition on McCain/Palin and a create a context favorable to Obama. It doesn’t help when they have people like Roland Martin giving debate analysis. It was terrible. MSNBC gave more fair coverage with Pat Buchanan and Roger Simon. Olbermann actually had Hawaii Republican Governor praising Palin.
CNN: Give credit where credit is due!
Do you think CNN will ever put a disclaimer on Roland Martin? He’s worse than Brazille in his biases and push for Obama. His shared Chicago ties with Rev. Meeks and others should put his very role on air under scrutiny.
Martin is even more compromised than Gwen Ifill, which is really saying something.
I thing that Moderator Gwen Ifill was good, even I dont like to have someone so much so bis, and cashing on book about Obama(possible).
Sarah Palin was great, and I wish She is not Republican, I will give Her my vote in 1000%!!!
I quickly heard Anderson Cooper refer to Martin as an Obama supporter last night, only once but I was suprised
Governor Lingle has a much stronger resume than Gov Palin. If she was as hot she would be the VP nominee.
That like Hillary getting passed over for Obama’s VP slot, or was that just in a whole different category of idiocy by Bams?
Roland Martin is just AWFUL. There is no denying that Palin did a terrific job. Her performance gives me new hope.
Me too Sugar….I was so proud of her!
coming from you is a compliment. thanks for the video. i wanted to comment but typad subs is very complicated.
Roland reminds me of a spoiled child. I haven’t ever looked into his back ground but I wouldn’t be surprized if he was spoiled ass rotten.
Roland is nothing but BIG MOUTH!!! Crying Baby and liar. Look how Anderson Coopre slows down in His attacks!!! He is a woos!!!
When Roland Martin starts to speak, I push MUTE on the remote, and then wait until the next commenter.
Same with that ole fart Carl Bernstein.
Coupla hacks.
Maybe MSNBC is angry that Obama told his followers to watch the last debate on CNN in his text message, so I guess now CNN might replace MSNBC as the new Obama network?
their ratings are not that great…no one wants to watch O-tv all the time. yawn.
I haven’t watched CNN for some time now. Since they were always in the bag for Obama,when Clinton was running…Thats why Fox is 4th and CNN near the bottom…I don’t believe there polls,I’m sure they must have there staff call in.imo.lol They had Biden winning the debate,and as far as I’m concerned Palin won,by a long shot, and payment will be the big pay off in November..I think Obama will bancrupt America.
taxes on all companies living USA, and 12 billions a month for occupation on Iraq, it will keep billions of dollars just montly in USA!!!They dont have to tax big businessess in USA, just to save those billions, AND MILLIONS OF JOBS. Now, someone is asking about helping other countries aroud the world, but now is the time” START HELPING AMERICA FOR A WHILE” AND YO PUT USA AND US FIRST. THOSE COUNTIES CAN NOT STAND USA, BUT SURE YHEY WANT OUR HELP. TIME TO SAY “NO” TO THEM , YOU ARE YOUR OWN IT IS TIME FOR AMERICA TO TAKE CARE OF THEIR OWN PEOPLE, WHO ARE PAYING TO HELP OTHERS AND RECEIVE IN RETURN “HATE”!!!GET ALL THOSE ILLEHELS OUR FROM USA, AND WE WILL HAVE SO MANY JOBS FOR US. IT IS SO SIMPLE, JUST HAVE TO DO IT. CLOSE SOUTH BORDERS, ADD MORE GUARDS ALL OVER USA, AND WE WILL BE JUST FINE. OT IS SIMPLE, DONT NEED THOUSAN PAGES TO DO IT, AND KEEP PORK PROGRAMS FROM 700 BILLIONS BAIL OUT!!!!!
bUSINESS WITH CHINA, AND WHAT WE GETS; POISONING OUR KIDS,US,OUR ANIMALS, MEDICINE, how much longer we wil be sitting quietly and letting those businesses destroy our economy and our health. our medicine must be made strictly in USA. we can not bring medicine from Canada, but they are fidding us with poisenous medicine from china!!!
The same feeling I had after Palin’s convention acceptance speech is the same exact feeling I have now. She captured America in this debate the same way she did in her first real national speech. I expect the polls to go up and the race will be tied up statistically.
*On Dick Morris: the hell with him, even if he makes a fair point on the debate. That ass took yet another swipe at Hillary while praising Palin.
His hatred of the Clintons reminds me of Olbermann’s hatred of O’Reilly - totally irrational. But the toe-sucker does sometimes make some good points. I did notice a few Reaganisms in her answers. Hopefully the Reagan democrats liked what they heard.
JOE BIDEN’S 14 LIES TONIGHT
1. TAX VOTE: Biden said McCain voted “the exact same way” as Obama to increase taxes on Americans earning just $42,000, but McCain DID NOT VOTE THAT WAY.
2. AHMEDINIJAD MEETING: Joe Biden lied when he said that Barack Obama never said that he would sit down unconditionally with Mahmoud Ahmedinijad of Iran. Barack Obama did say specifically, and Joe Biden attacked him for it.
3. OFFSHORE OIL DRILLING: Biden said, “Drill we must.” But Biden has opposed offshore drilling and even compared offshore drilling to “raping” the Outer Continental Shelf.”
4. TROOP FUNDING: Joe Biden lied when he indicated that John McCain and Barack Obama voted the same way against funding the troops in the field. John McCain opposed a bill that included a timeline, that the President of the United States had already said he would veto regardless of it’s passage.
5. OPPOSING CLEAN COAL: Biden says he’s always been for clean coal, but he just told a voter that he is against clean coal and any new coal plants in America and has a record of voting against clean coal and coal in the U.S. Senate.
6. ALERNATIVE ENERGY VOTES: According to FactCheck.org, Biden is exaggerating and overstating John McCain’s record voting for alternative energy when he says he voted against it 23 times.
7. HEALTH INSURANCE: Biden falsely said McCain will raise taxes on people’s health insurance coverage — they get a tax credit to offset any tax hike. Independent fact checkers have confirmed this attack is false
8. OIL TAXES: Biden falsely said Palin supported a windfall profits tax in Alaska — she reformed the state tax and revenue system, it’s not a windfall profits tax.
9. AFGHANISTAN / GEN. MCKIERNAN COMMENTS: Biden said that top military commander in Iraq said the principles of the surge could not be applied to Afghanistan, but the commander of NATO’s International Security Assistance Force Gen. David D. McKiernan said that there were principles of the surge strategy, including working with tribes, that could be applied in Afghanistan.
10. REGULATION: Biden falsely said McCain weakened regulation — he actually called for more regulation on Fannie and Freddie.
11. IRAQ: When Joe Biden lied when he said that John McCain was “dead wrong on Iraq”, because Joe Biden shared the same vote to authorize the war and differed on the surge strategy where they John McCain has been proven right.
12. TAX INCREASES: Biden said Americans earning less than $250,000 wouldn’t see higher taxes, but the Obama-Biden tax plan would raise taxes on individuals making $200,000 or more.
13. BAILOUT: Biden said the economic rescue legislation matches the four principles that Obama laid out, but in reality it doesn’t meet two of the four principles that Obama outlined on Sept. 19, which were that it include an emergency economic stimulus package, and that it be part of “part of a globally coordinated effort with our partners in the G-20.”
14. REAGAN TAX RATES: Biden is wrong in saying that under Obama, Americans won’t pay any more in taxes then they did under Reagan.
Way to go “I have a bracelet 2″ - thanks - I couldn’t bear to watch the after debate attack squads so I get my info here.
With respect for your diligence, I doubt that this list will be too effective, mostly because it’s too obviously over-the-top partisan.
Consider. What you’re saying is that the Democratic candidate for VP—a distinguished member of the Senate—blurted out 14 lies in a public debate, and you were the only one clever enough to spot all these incredible, blatant lies. The only people who will believe it are people who pretty much hate Democrats. They’ll like it…but these are not the ones we need to convince.
Also, when they look down the list, people will see that very few items on the list are actual lies. They seem to be exaggerations, inaccuracies, and differences of interpretation. Calling it a list of lies is itself a lie—ouch!
There you go again …
When is an exageration not a lie? When we tell it? Please, Perry. Take some time off for yourself and look for your soul.
C’mon Perry…Even you have to admit that Palin has the same kind of charisma St. Reagan had…No Wonder the GOP is energized…She won over a big chunk of the working class…imho
Artist … what part of the Big D do you reside in? When I left I was in Oak Cliff … and am now back in Ohio ….
Hey Bee….I live in he historic gayborhood of Oak Lawn….chuckle…which is rapidly being overrun by Yuppes ( sigh ) A lot of Gays and Artists have been developing Bishop Arts District in Oak Cliff. Anyway you cut it the only place I can afford to live is still Oak Lawn. Thought Palin did great. She reminded me Sooo much of Reagan it was uncanny. I mean I have been a democrat all my life ( although I will impersonate a republican this seaon since fascists have taken over the party )…anyway there was sooo much I hated about Reagan’s policies But I could not help but LIKE him…and Palin has that quality. I never liked GWB thought he was a classic PUTZ in that fratboy sort of way..a real poseur dumbass. But Palin comes across as sincere and authentic. Hate to say it but the democrats could have used that quality with Hillary Clinton who showed the same caring and toughness throughout the campaign…
FOX news had commentary right after the debate claiming numerous outright lies by Biden confirmed by independent sources. As if it was just made up here. Get a clue.
What? You’re under the influence of some mind altering substance (beyond kool-aid) I know we’ve been living in an alternative reality for 2 years where everything O says is true and the media refuses to cover his uh,uh,uh,uh stumbling bumbling untrue comments so they never happened. Where have you been for 25 years, Biden’s (lying, fake) mouth has been well mocked since the beginning.
Biden lies in debate: http://corner.nationalreview.com/post/?q=ODQ4OTBhZjZhMDMwNWFhOTg5N2Y4MmE2M2QyY2NkNjM
Go check out this mornings articles. There are several pointing out Biden’s lies and exaggerations.
Just because O’s leg-huh,uh,uh,humping, panting media refuses to cover it, it never happened? uh,uh,uh,uhs sure…..
P.S. here’s Jake Tapper mocking you. Dork it up, kid. http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2008/10/the-obama-08-ip.html
If you don’t want to give O a hit, don’t bother going to Jake’s link… it takes you to O’s site.
Thank you. I am going to share this list with others. The CNN analysts compliment Biden for substance, having no clue the facts were WRONG. They criticize the absence of facts, and unknowingly complimented lies. They showed tonight they know LESS than Palin.
Maybe the people on CNN were on some kind of illegal “substance” to think that this guy can open his mouth without exaggerating. He was like smirking and grinning like a moron. And when he cried, I thought that was a “I have a bracelet too” moment. If Palin or Hillary cried, it would have been on replay 24/7.
One of the writers on Town Hall is using your list. You should charge her for your research!!!!!
It appears the Obama networks are really downplaying her performance. What a surprise. Poor Keith asked what you should do if someone doesn’t directly answer the question. I thought he was banned from debate coverage. Also, I am learning to ignore the polls. I voted over and over in the CNN poll. How could anyone trust that? The bots are in control, so we have to stay focused on the end result. I am Dem chair for Mac in my town and will be running my second print ad. Any suggestions? Am thinking about “Mortgage-gate”.
Teddy -
Do you create the ads? Just curious.
What size of town and media coverage area for your ad? What make-up of voters? Very importantly, who are your undecideds or leaners that might be swayed by your ad? No sense writing an ad that preaches to the choir.
Democratic housing policies brought America the subprime mortgage crisis.
don’t vote for more of the same. America can’t afford another housing crisis.
How about “never again.”
Too simplistic and somewhat incorrect. The goal of extending housing opportunities to people who might not otherwise qualify for a home loan is a respectable and important goal. If the only problem was that some folks got in over their heads, fine, pick up the tab for the effort.
But that turns out to not be the problem. When companies were allowed to set up unrealistic interest rates and then sold the mortgages to companies that raded them like stocks it magnified the risk made to get people into homes.
Finally, Congress then balked at any changes. I watched a whole series of clips lately with members of Congress berating any suggestion there might be a problem and that changes might be needed.
Maybe I’m be too simplistic as well, but I think the goals were valid and needed but Congress failed to manage the risk and how these risky mortgages were traded.
I don’t think you’re being too simplistic.
In fact, I was under the impression that this all got started because banks/lenders often discriminated against minorities based on race and not necessarily income. There were always cases where whites with similar income and credit got mortgages and blacks didn’t.
How it turned into a situation where people were able to get mortgages when realistically they would never be able to pay them, I’ll never understand.
The idea/goal should be a level playing field. And remember, the buyers are not profiting, they are being exploited for profit.
Big difference.
Anyway, no way this should have gotten out of hand. And I hold the US Congress, both Parties responsible.
Heck if the gov’t is in the business of just giving people houses that they can’t afford, then I want mine, too.
I seriously can’t believe that was the idea. The idea was to let the fat cats get fatter by eschewing regulation and looking the other way.
And I really don’t think that’s being simplistic.
We’re blaming the victims here. The buyers, like drug addicts were enabled and for very greedy reasons.
Ultimately, the banks/lenders, our elected officials are responsible.
You may wish to check out the This American Life episode about the mortgage crisis, the Giant Pool of Money. Its thesis is that because of an expanded pool of money chasing investment in American mortgage-backed securities, there was immense pressure to give out mortgages at nearly any cost. Everyone was making money on the scheme until it all collapsed in and they weren’t any more.
This was a fairly recent phenomenon that occurred with the rise of the Chinese and Indian economy who added their new economic muscle to the worldwide Pool of Money chasing investments.
Nowhere is the Community Reinvestment Act or minority homeowners mentioned.
http://www.thislife.org/Radio_Episode.aspx?sched=1242
The reason prices for Houses increased so much was the increase in demand, made possible by the Mortgage companies giving anyone a loan without a downpayment or the ability to repay the loan down the road.
Republicans controlled all three branches of government from 2000-2006.
The housing crisis is their baby.
http://bigpicture.typepad.com/comments/2008/10/misunderstandin.html
Not according to Bill Clinton.
Perry, you’re sounding like our very partisan Speaker of the House.
REALLY. I watched Clinton’s tape from ABC.
I think I’ll trust the Big Dawg before I’d trust our little idealogue named Perry Logan.
Thank you very much.
The Republicans were blocked by the DEMS. You need 60 votes to avoid a filibuster, S 190, the Bill McCain co-sponsered, came out of Committee on a straight Party line vote, but the DEMS told them they would Filibuster and the Republicans couldn’t get the 60 votes to overcome that, end of story.
Hit Obama on the infanticide issue. And Ayers, and Odinga.
The abortion agenda is a loser. Go start an abortion forum elsewhere, Paul. Maybe you can even post gruesome pictures along with your dictation to women about their wombs, bodies and families.
A large majority of Americans support a woman’s God-given right to abortion.
But they do not support an infant being left to die. You are a MAN talking about what WOMEN believe. How the HELL would you know? Ever been late? Ever had an abortion? Waiting to hear ……
Your point is taken that it’s presumptuous for a man to talk about abortion. Like most white guys, I just can’t shut my piehole.
In the words of Gloria Steinham, “If men had babies, abortion would be a sacrament.”
It is above your pay grade to make any kind of non-comment to Paul’s original comment regarding the infanticide issue.
I don’t believe this is a “god” given right.
Now really!
As if either Gloria or Perry would know ….
OK, ya got me. I was thinking of the gun guys, who say guns are a “God-given right.” If guns are God-given, so are abortions.
Since no one here said anything about guns, your flippant comment is not material.
Nor is GS as any sort of authority for “women.”
And let’s not forget: pro-lifers are murderers.
Pro-lifers kill people and blow up abortion clinics every year. They are America’s worst domestic terrorists
Again, I am wondering how you got so far away from Paul’s original post. You have really learned to think like a bot, Perry and it shows in your posts. You might need some down time to readdress the ability to stay on topic.
We’re were discussing how well the infanticide issue would work, and I’m giving reasons why it might not work. It’s an issue that flies only with a narrow segment of people.
Your posts are bot answers. You haven’t address the original issue … first it was …. but but but “everyone” supports abortion. Then its guaranteed … then Gloria … then pro-lifers are murders … and is that, too, Perry? Are you equating women who seek abortions with pro-life terrorists? Your logic has disintigrated in all of your dissembling. You can no longer stay on topic. Too bad. You used to be sort of interesting.
Every comment that I’ve seen by Perry is a dig at conservatives or Republicans.
Perry also makes digs at Obamacrats; he’s right in many instances.
You must be a liberal. Really dumb comment.
Be careful. People who hate liberals tend to be degenerates.
Stalin, Hitler, Pol Pot, Mussolini, and Rush Limbaugh all hated liberals.
Don’t project your hate of Republicans onto those who quesion 0bama and don’t see him as the “hopey changey thingey” of the Democratic party. You might need us to vote for the other names on the ballots since most of the rabid 0bama supporters won’t.
Hey Lance, what’s wrong with liberals? I’m a liberal who believes in the betterment of society, and that women should own their bodies, and health care should be universal. That said, I can see through the Obamacrats, just as I could see through Bush and Cheney back in 1999. Get a grip, man!
Pro-choicers are PETA members who are anti war.
Save the animals, save the terriost and kill the unborn.
Perry a large majority of Americans are sick & tired of being bludgeoned with wedge issues…they want a break…nuff said…
Just a suggestion, focus on McCain-Palin authenticity and corruption/abuses reform.
Suggestion: Get out the real record on McCain and Democrats re: reining in Fannie and Freddie and the whole history of Democratic advocacy to the max of loan standards that brought on this economic crisis. What Dems said to protect Fan/Fred and what Republicans at the same time said.