FACT CHECK on Obama’s Recent Triangulation on Health Care in Ohio
By Truthteller on October 6, 2008 at 3:10 PM in Bamboozling, Barack Obama, Health Care, Hoodwinking, Ohio
Imagine the horror this progressive Democrat experienced when viewing this advertisement in a major media market in Ohio this weekend while recovering from the flu:
According to Barack Obama, a truly universal health care plan is “government run health care,” and it will result in a tax increase.
Obama, it seems, fails to understand how many of the 18,000,000 who voted for Clinton supported her for her truly universal health care plan. He also fails to understand that many of us who are health care voters will not cast votes for the triangulating Obama in 2008, as we desire truly universal health care plans sometime during our lifetimes.
If we cannot obtain truly universal health care plan from the triangulator who demonizes truly universal health care with Republican tropes in 2008, we will ensure he loses in order to cast votes for someone who will defend truly universal health care in 2012.
But enough about me: let us conduct a fact check
Ohioans and other voters who desire consistency from their politicians should recall this statement Barack Obama uttered in 2003:
At an AFL-CIO conference in inner city Chicago in 2003, Obama states “he would like to see” single payer, universal health care coverage. And yes, that would require a tax increase. But here he is on 24 January 2008 equivocating on universal health care when questioned by a news anchor about his 2003 statements:
Where is the consistency, Senator Obama? Where do you stand? And why did you claim you could not hear the video clip? Do you refuse to be held accountable?
Obama, in other words, did support “government run” health care that would entail a “tax increase.” But now that he desires the votes of centrists and conservatives in Ohio he will claim otherwise. This gambit with health care will have consequences, however. Not only will he lose the support of Clinton supporters who desire truly universal health care; he will offend conservatives and centrists in Ohio who will realize Obama will do and say anything to win an election once they discover he said he supported “single payer,” “universal health care” during a conference in inner city Chicago where he articulated a desire to stage a takeover of the Senate and the White House.
First he supported “government run,” “universal health care.” Then he demonized it during the primary in Ohio with Republican tropes and iconography.
And now he is attempting to stake a position in the center in his newest television ad in major Ohio media markets. Not to be trusted on anything, Obama will do and say anything to win an election. Let us hope Hillary supporters and conservatives and centrists in Ohio will vote accordingly after reading this fact check.
He and his flock have never believed in UHC. Actually I don’t think Barack Obama believes in anything other than himself.
Voting BO because you always vote dem, means you are reconciled to not having Universal Health Care during the lifetime of most of those reading this blog.
I personally can wait another four years. I cannot wait forever wondering what we could have had.
I saw that ad here in Florida. It’s bullshit. He also lies through his teeth about McCain’s plan. He says that McCain’s plan taxes insurance benefits. Well, DUH. If you have an insurance loss, and you have an insurance payment, if there’s excess over the loss, it’s taxable income. Nothing new there. But if it’s less than the insurance loss (or medical bill) and you pay the difference, then DUH, it’s not taxable.
Obama is full of shit and he’s playing to the lowest common denominator (like his Obots).
No, that’s not what McCain means by taxing insurance benefits.
Currently, the amount your employer pays toward your health insurance premiums is deductible by the employer on its income tax returns. McCain wants to eliminate that deduction which is likely to mean two things: (1) there will be no tax advantage for employers to continue to offer group coverage, so a percentage of employers will likely drop their plans and (2) if they continue to contribute to these plans, the amount they contribute on your behalf will be considered income to you, and you will have to include it in your income.
Additionally, offering a refundable $5,000 tax credit so people can go out and get their own insurance is not going to be much help if the annual cost of a family policy is close to $10K - where will people come up with the difference?
I am not shilling for Obama here, as I firmly believe he has neither the interest nor the will to deliver on health care for the 47 million who are uninsured - he just knows that he can get votes if he talks as if it’s a priority.
Just wanted to clarify some of the finer points of McCain’s plan - which I happen to think really sucks.
Do not make a claim without providing a link. Please can you provide your prove.
countrydem, you are dead wrong! You need to read my post from McCain’s website further down.
Ahhh…ok.
Well, the thing about all of these ‘plans’ is that it’s just one person’s plan. He’s just one vote, tho an important one. We have what? 100 senators and 435 house members.
To me the biggest issue is the tone set by the administration. Obama is a crook, liar and slacker. Since Bush is pretty much the same, we have a nice little 8 yr preview of what we could expect with Obama - same mentality, same type of thugs, same off-the-charts political crap mentality.
What a mess.
The other part of the McCain plan is to allow interstate competition for insurance coverage, and that would bring the premiums down considerably.
I loved Hill’s plan, that said I own my own business and don’t have health care. I would gladly take the $5,000. It would cut my cost in half
me too!
(1) there will be no tax advantage for employers to continue to offer group coverage, so a percentage of employers will likely drop their plans and (2) if they continue to contribute to these plans, the amount they contribute on your behalf will be considered income to you, and you will have to include it in your income.
Taking pressure off the employer will help the small businesses, a large % of which are going to go under as the influences from the bailout continue over the next year. If businesses stay in business, people will have JOBS which will provide for their needs including saving $$ for healthcare. Isn’t this better anyway?
wrong, your employer will not be taxed. However, if you have employer sponsored insurance, you will be taxed but you will receive a tax credit. from John McCains website.
If you or your family is in the 28% bracket, with an income of $180,000, you could receive employer provided health insurance even better than a Member of Congress, with a cost of almost $18,000, with no increase in taxes. Even the liberal leaning Tax Policy Center, agrees that the McCain proposals will result in a “net tax benefit” of more than $1,200 for an average tax payer.
That has been my understanding how it works.
First, very few people are saving anything or enough to be useful, and second, health care costs are so enormous (and larger for the uninsured)it would be unrealistic. My significant other is quite healthy except must take a medicine with a (suggested by the mfr.) retail price of $1350/mo. But we pay $65 for the prescription and $650 for insurance. Now, do you really think the insurance co. is eating the difference every month? No, it’s a fix between the insurers and the pharm and medical facilities. Do you think you could “save” $1350/mo yourself? Do you know what a trip to the ER costs?
Doctors get blamed but imo they are on the defensive themselves. This is why we need a universal system, to control the one-upmanship.
Yea, I agree. McCain’s health insurance plan does nothing for me. But in light of the current fiscal crisis that is upon us, the government bureaucracy that is going to increase even further because of this mess, I can’t see universal health care going anywhere in the near future. Personally, I can and will wait four years for the next election cycle for this matter to be taken up again. Hopefully, by Hillary.
Anyone, including Hillary, who votes for Obama because of their fervant hope that universal care will happen is living in lala land. There’s no money for it now. It’s been spent.
Furthermore, Barack Obama is an asshole. Howard Dean and Nancy Pelosi are assholes. Donna Brazile is an asshole. Oprah Winfrey and Joyce Behar are assholes too. And the lost could go on and on. I have finally made up my mind about how I am going to vote come November. I will vote for John McCain and not cast a single voter for one single downticket Democrat. And in the case of Bev Perdue, running for governor here in NC I will vote against her because of her support for Barry prior to June 7th. I urge everyone to consider the same. The Democrats need to lose and lose bad. Maybe then they will get the point that it is because of the asshole on the TOP ticket. I am mad as hell and not going to take it anymore.
McCain in 2008
Clinton in 2012
Try an outside the Obama talking points opinion on for size. Obama has waffled on every issue I care about.
Here is food for thought.
http://www.thecuttingedgenews.com/index.php?article=481
It’s sad when even right in front of your eyes as many other stuff in right infront of your nose and eyes. but, stiil you have to see on a website what Obama want’s you to believe.
Obama has said so many things to say again in a different state something different on what he said in the other.Wake Up!Hope sooner then later.
I live in Florida too and I got 3 things today from Obama. Like 4 last week, he is shilling his crap all over this state. I loath him.
If zeromama’s lips are moving he’s lyin’ lyin’ lyin’
As I have read through some of these posts, I found that McCain’s plan was being misrepresented. So, I went to his web site for the truth. Here it is.
McCain Health Care Plan Preserves Employer Coverage: The McCain health plan builds on the employer-based system. Employers will have the same incentive to provide health insurance as they do today since they will continue to deduct the cost of health insurance they provide to employees. Nothing will change. In addition, payroll taxes will be protected from taxes under the McCain plan. Millions of American families with employer sponsored coverage in all tax brackets with the same coverage as a “Members of Congress” will now come out ahead with additional funds going into a portable health savings account.
I am a Hillary supporter and WE DON’T KNOW WHO HE IS OR WHAT HE STANDS FOR. I am being honest and that is why I won’t go knocking on doors or standing on corners, because he flips, he flops and I can’t promote someone like that.
He is all for ‘THE ONE’.
Its lets take care of ME and ME and ME first.
He will look straight at you and tell the biggest whoppers:
Obama commemorates 1965 civil rights march in Selma, AL
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DdYByptC8mY
Don’t forget this is the same man that didn’t utter Dr. Martin Luther King Jr’s name nor that of Rosa Parks at his acceptance speech. Obama was born in 1961 and Selma had nothing to do with him being born.
He’s a LIAR, plain and simple. And he’s all about lining his own pockets. He’s just like Bush - no work history, no skills, no personal income (other than whatever he’s gotten based on the ‘kindness’ of others). He wants this job to line his pockets.
I am a democrat now and forever, but I am not going to vote for Sen. Obama because he is on democrat list.
No, no.
I will vote MacCain/Palin ticket. Both are real.
It is solitary activity you know.
McCain called him one today too.
http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D93L6MQO1&show_article=1
We don’t know, but I betcha five bucks the RNC will be happy to share what they have learned.
He also runs an ad here in Ohio talking about how all his mother worried about at the end of her life was paying for her cancer treatment …. HOW WOULD HE KNOW? This is the son who never went to see his mother!!! I see that ad and I just want to throw something at the TV when I watch that freaking ad!
You succinctly explain why I cannot vote for him. Having had assumed at least three positions on health care, I have no clue what Obama will attempt to implement as President.
I also find it difficult to reward someone who demonized universal health care during a Democratic primary.
He is advocating coverage without dealing with cost. You can forget about 700 billion dollar bailouts, the healthcare plan alone will cost 2 times that every year. The inflation rate in healthcare is sometimes as high as 15%.
Do you know how many people will be unemployed if mandated single payer healthcare goes through? Do you know how much fraud there is in Medicare and particulaly Medicaid? Did you know that hospitals “cost shift” entiltlement healthcare losses to the uninsured and people with healthcare? This is way too complicated of an issue to dither about hope and change. We need specifics.
I hope this will be dealt with in the debates.
NewHampster,
Obama will reduce taxes for 95% of the American poeple.
Obama will cover health insurance for 47 million of curently uninsuranced Amricans.
I can not put the above 2 ideas together, can you?
Obama, do the math!
Democrats who intend to cast their votes for Obama were never interested in policy. Indeed, they are low information voters motivated by impulse and not by anything that resembles a thought. I view them as so many mindless drones.
I have seen this commercial many times and do not understand what the hell it is trying to say. It is totally Howard Dean-like.
Well said …. don’t we all want to reduce costs and stay with existing health care professionals? DUH!
he thinks the cheap graphics will hypnotize low information voters. it is a sign of obama’s disrespect for ordinary americans.
I support Hillary’s health care plan too. it’s better than Obama’s. but she is not running.
now, when she becaomes the Senate Majority leader under Obama, she will have a massive influence over the final bill.
go hillary!
go obama!
savage you are quite ignorant
please explain. really, explain how i’m ignorant.
(FYI calling me a name is not an explanation)
I didn’t call you a name. I said you were ignorant.
…case and point!
i was preempting you (you know how this board works, right?).
now, continue….
Yeah, really, we know you support the idea of food stamps for the young and able bodied along with free housing and yes medical insurance for free. Your socialist tax dollars at work to increase the wealth of your dear leader.
i swear that’s not in Hillary’s plan. read it again.
Savage,
Without any name calling…
Kerry (one of Obama’s biggest champions) said UHC was a non starter and dead on arrival. There is no way that Obama wants Universal Health Care.
The thing you don’t seem to want to accept is that Obama hates Clinton — he felt humiliated by her at the debates (particulary ABC debate in advance of PA primary) because it was the one fair debate they had and she totally outperformed him. He also was furious that this 60 year old lady in a pantsuit would not lie down and quit in February when he told her to.
Because she fought on til the end and got stronger and stronger, he was limping to the finish line. He truly wants to step on her throat.
If McCain is elected, she will have a great chance to become Senate Majority Leader — she and McCain have a great and respectful relationship.
If Obama wins and Pelosi and Reid stay in power (they also stabbed Hillary in the back daily) — you are misguided if you EVER think that Hillary will be in a position of power in the Senate.
Thanks for your calm thoughtful reply (it’s refreshing).
Here are some points I would like to make in reply. I don’t think anybody can guess how Obama felt about Hillary. We can make assumptions. But assuming makes an ass out of you and me.
McCain will never sign Hillary’s health care bill. NEVER! She, in his mind, is a socialist just like all democrats (warning: assumption).
I believe Democrats are fed up with Reid. I am. If Hillary isn’t the Senate Majority leader, I really believe she will be in his cabinet and be in a position to make health care decisions. Really.
I need not make any assumption about how Obama feels about Hillary, it is quite obvious when you flip someone off or dust them off your shoulders, what your feelings for that person are.
As for your assumption that Hillary is either going to be Senate leader or in Obama’s cabinet, I believe you are totally wrong. Why would Obama place someone he gave the finger to and brushed off his shoulders in his cabinet? Also if the current democratic leadership went along with guiding Obama to his annointment as party leader why would those same delegates who were leaned on, or bought off, to support him suddenly give the leadership to Hillary.
IMHO neither fantasy is likely to happen. I see a better chance of Hillary being on Sen. McCain’s cabinet if he is elected but I frankly would think he would prefer her to be Senate leader as he and she have a good working relationship and have shown they can work with each other.
I have worked in the health care industry for over 2 years now and I process medicare/medicaid and insurance all day long. I hate to tell you but a national healthcare is not the answer. You have to realize that we already have a shortage of doctors now to the tune of 200,000. Let’s say that a dr’s office visit is 38.00. Medicare pays the dr. 11.00 and the dr. has to write off the rest. Now, my doctor has been in business for over 30 years. He is not alone. When you institute a national health care, you will see many doctors leaving the field because they won’t be able to survive. Their malpractice insurance is $80,000 a year. Then consider their overhead such as labor, office equipment, and repayment of loans that are into the hundreds of thousands. They will not be able to survive. You will see a shortage of doctors like you have never been before. Nope, the best way is to get them out of bed with our congress. Period. Free market is the best solution. And McCain is the best for this. He got the lobbyists of tobacco industries out of bed with the politicians, and I know he will do the same with the insurance companies.
I totally agree with your main point that the government needs to stay the hell away from the health care system in the country.
I worked in health care (laboratory science) for years, and have also worked in government. It would be a disaster to have the government involved any more than it already is involved in health care delivery.
I also disagree that health care is a fundamental right. It is not. Nor is there a fundamental right to own a home, and we have seen in recent weeks how trying to have the government and NGOs work to make it so has worked out…
I agree. You think that Fannie and Freddie are bad…imagine the patronage and corruption when the government runs healthcare.
People don’t like mandated care. The market rejected it once.
if you truly supported her health care plan, you would have campaigned for her during the primaries. you also would have objected to all the chicanery that resulted in obama’s nomination. moreover, you would oppose obama now, for you would desire truly universal coverage sometime in the near future.
Savage,
Go Hillary
Go Obama
????????????
You must have a very high IQ because I can not imagie how you can put these two together.
I’m a hardcore democrat. Sorry, same ideals.
Gee that didn’t sound like Barak obama’s voice to me… on the first video…
It also doesn’t say ANYTHING about WHAT his plan is… just that the other options are wrong. But that is his whole schtick… he moves his mouth, but nothing comes out!!!
I need some syrup to help swallow that waffle!
Doublespeaking BO
Obama is the most consistent, inconsistent person I have ever known….In other words the man is a total Liar
Howard Wolfson on McCain: “It’s over.”
well, the way howie ran hillary’s campaign i am not sure he would know what over is.
Well said…
well said (too)!
Yeah, McCain’s easiness on Oblockhead is over.
McCain tore Oblahblah a new rectal cavity with plenty of room for all the obamalobotobots to run and hide.
Hahahaha
Wolfson doesn’t have much credibility in light of the campaign he “allowed”…
This comment is unrelated to my essay. I will recommend you are banned from this site for spamming.
really BANNED?
my apologies, but I really don’t think qualifies a banning. I should of put an OT above my post like the others.
this site would need to ban A LOT people. Like I Will Remember in November’s post below. Or Typical Bitter Whitey Woman’s. Or voteamerican’s. Why didn’t you recommend a ban for them?
OT RED HOT video of Mac ripping Ohemorrhoid a new one.
ummm why are you linking a video you have to pay for.
That’s not true. It is Cspan and free.
Thank you for the article, Truthteller.
Like Obama’s campaign is displaying in Ohio and elsewhere, some people are easily terrified into believing anything.
I have seen, as most of you, this tactic for years:
Roe v Wade
Welfare Benefits
Social Security
Health Care Benefits
and the list goes on…
Universal health care is wonderful, but the prospect of expanding the government even greater and paying more taxes doesn’t generally appeal to me.
Then I thought about how we could easily resolve this issue:
Stop sending money to countries that hate us.
Require Congress to pay for their own health benefits, perks, and other “work” related perks that most of us don’t know about. This could save us billions in the long run and give us the money we need for affordable healthcare for everyone.
Put on E-bay every US government vehicle. I’m not sure if you’ve ever noticed, but the United States government has way too many vehicles. Time to start selling them off and make Congress pay for their own ride.
Good idea. Tax the congressional health care plan at FMV and give them the same tax credit everyone else gets. Then sit back and see if they figure out that if they improve delivery of services efficiently, they won’t lose any more than everyone else does.
Even if Obama supported universal health care, I would not trust him to manage such a bureaucracy. Only Hillary can be trusted with such a program. And yes, Hillary would have funded it in a manner that is budget neutral.
Thanks to HMO’s, Government Regulation, and Tort Litigators, primary care physicians are going the way of the dinosaur. Where are they going to find the physicians to care for the increased number of folks expected to be insured? Or are we to going to have to get used to our primary care nurse practitioner? The devil’s in the details.
You’re right. There will be a shortage of Dr’s. that we haven’t seen in this country. I know my dr says that if Obama is elected, he is getting out of the field and retiring. And he tells me that many of his friends have said the same thing. It’s too bad too because these are doctors who have given out a lot of free healthcare to those who really can’t afford it or are down on their luck. He’s the type of dr. that goes to the person’s house if he has to and never charge them except for an office visit, if that. But like he said, he can’t afford to work for nothing anymore, so he would be better off retiring.
The last time I toook my mom to the emergency room. There was one doctor, and nurses just falling all over each other.
So that’s his plan… ask the insurance companies to lower their costs? Yeah, right. Fat chance of that. Why don’t people realize this a-hole has no plan for anything but to move into the Whitehouse?
Obama seems to think powerful special interests will fulfill his every wish. Because he is so naive, I refuse to support him.
OT
Mccain waited too long to pull the trigger on obama’s pals. People are looking at the world markets and going holy sh#t what is happening and all mccain is talking about (although it is true) is obama domestic terrorisr pals. Unless mccain can tie obama’s pals and how that will affect obama’s stewardship of the ecomony mccain has a tough road to hoe.
I would suggest mccain gather up photos of obama with: ayers, wright, the columbia professor with ties to the iran president and louis farranh and display those photos as an announcer states” america is going through tough and challenging times what we need most of all is a president who believes in the greatness of america…Mccain/Palin.”
He didn’t wait too long. Most of the electorate has a memory about as long as a gnat’s wing, which means the closer to the election, the better.
Additionally, in a time of crisis, the citizenry will gravitate to an experienced LEADER, not a professional candidate.
The exposure of n0bama’s questionable associations goes directly to the issue of whether he is ready to lead. Or if he can be trusted with that responsibility.
Agreed.
When are they going to roll out Odinga?
http://texasdarlin.wordpress.com/2008/10/06/why-did-obama-campaign-for-a-pro-islam-candidate-in-kenya/
Socialized medicine won’t work in a country this large nor whose “health care” industry and insurance “programs” are a base point for massive amounts of capital. Oh and let’s not forget the “pharmacutical industry”…
Too many make too much money and have too much invested these “industries” to ever let socialized medicine become the norm. Not to mention how significantly taxed we would ALL be, in addition to all those other taxes obassole wants to inflict.
Like a poster said upthread, this is just another point of sale for vote getting, which in reality will never become anything!
http://www.c-spanarchives.org/library/includes/templates/library/flash_popup.php?pID=281630-1&clipStart=&clipStop=
McCain blasts Obama, Democrats for Fannie Mae meltdown
That ad has played over and over again in Ohio. It’s still playing today.
I notice Obama has flooded the airwaves in Ohio. Hopefully voters will react adversely to his attempt to purchase the state with Rezko cash.
One good thing about not living in a battleground state is we don’t have to see or hear the constant adds. On the other hand you almost feel invisible, as in candidates pretty much ignore us.
Obama’s “hybrid” plan is very much like what we have here in Massachusetts and it is not working. Cost and enrollment was underestimated. It’s killing the state budget and there are not enough primary care doctors to handle the increased patient load. As someone who is blessed to have employer- sponsered health insurance it actually hurt my family and employer. Monthly cost and co-pays went up, benefits down. Long waits for appointments and even less time with the doctor. There is now a whole new layer of goverment that must be supported, adding to the costs of the insurer that is just passed on down to me. It has helped certain people: those with pre-exisiting conditions, the self-employed, and the working poor. But there had to be an easier, less costly way to accomplish the same goal. A hybrid model that is not universal is not the way, basically it is just re-distributing the same health care dollars and does nothing to bring cost DOWN.
They are running every Obama and McCain commercial possible here in Pittsburgh. They are on during local news, Steeler games, etc. I was a registered dem for 22 years, I switched to Independent after the drubbing Clinton got from her own party, and I am going to vote for McCain. However any local or state dem will have my support. There is NO-Way I will give the keys to the car to Obama, with a possible 60 dems in the senate. I believe in a split between the legislative and the executive branches of government. I also do not trust him.
I too do not trust Obama. I am glad I am not the only Democrat who refuses to support Barack Obama.
Neither one of these guys has the health care plan or ideas Hillary had.
BO must have oodles of money because I’ve seen this ad here in Obamaland (SF Bay Area) running on the national Fox News shows.
The problem (ONE of the many problems) with this jerk is that he has NO core principles. He says and does whatever he has to in order to advance his ego and his own position in life.
I still can’t believe Americans believe this guy is ready to be president….but they did elect Bush Jr twice! (well, maybe once but it shouldn’t have been close!)
I think we don’t know yet what they think and I believe totally that they will decide when the time comes, that he is not only not ready, but completely unacceptable.
I agree with you. And why should we reward someone who campaigns against universal health care during a Democratic primary? Are you prepared to shift our party to the right?
Why can’t he just steal McCain’s plan and call it his own. Then he can say there is no difference between his plan and McCain’s — end of discussion. Clinton supporters who wanted UHC and who are now supporting this con are fools.
Agreed, but to those Clinton supporters who are going to sit election out or vote for a third party and then sign off “Clinton 2012″ are not much better.
IMHO if Obama gets elected there is very little possibility that Hillary would be running against him in 2012. If he and the DNC are able to pull of his corrupted election this year why would he with the power of a sitting president not be able to shut any democrat out from opposing him in 2012? Frankly I think those Clinton supporters who do not vote for McCain this election will not have the chance to support Hillary for another presidential run. Just MHO.
The current issue of Consumer Reports compares McCain’s to Obama’s [Health Insurer Written] plan, showing what they cost applied to half a dozen real life sample families and individuals. What’s surprising is that McCain’s plan benefits lower income people more in a few cases.
There are a number of countries running their health care systems on 7-8% of GNP. Last I looked, ours is at 17% and rising. Much of the difference goes to drug companies and insurance company middlemn. Our manufacturers are at a huge disadvantage compared to China and Japan etc.